Grinding noise coming from transfer box.

[Ed Poore]

Sounds pretty bad - have you had a look inside the transfer box at all?

[tweetyduck]

Having rebuild both a Gearbox and Transfer on the floor in a garage on my trip i'm at a loss what would cause noise only when under load. The only thing i can think of is its a bearing....but which one. My bet so far is R380 rear support bearing as thats usually what goes due to load and would so be affected by loading. Its the one directly above the oil pump on the rear of the Gearbox.

Either waey you will have to start removing stuff. So if you take out the Trans you will see the Gearbox output shaft. That where the bearing is. You might be able to feel the problem.

[Bowie69]

Was it a garage that sold you it?

[pantherslover]

Hello,  tweetyduck, that is my guess,  output shaft of r380.  I will have to remove the transfer box to look at this and probably have to drop the gearbox.

Bowie,  no a neighbour that wanted to sell it. The noise was a known issue,  i didn't want the vehicle,  i was trying to get a w463 g wagon but very difficult in spain to find.  I was kind of pressured to buy it as i have cows,  my spring dried up and my neighbour with the td5 has a well.  Water much more important to me than a 2001 td5. Cost me 5500 euros (about 4900 quid)  174k kms about 110k miles.

There seems to be a lot of backlash in the trans box,  in the diffs and  between the r380 and the tbox.

I'll take a video from underneath.  I've done all kinds of vehicles but never been near a land rover before,  beginning to see why....

[pantherslover]

Ed, i havent done anything yet,  im not using the vehicle as i live at 1000 metres so going anywhere involves big climbs/descents.  The neighbour obviously had this dynamic also,  he's not good at doing anything and he doesn't speak spanish and mechanics here are all have a go heroes.  That's fine for all of us who aren't making a living out of it,  if we make a mistake it falls back to us not a confused customer.

[Bowie69]

I'd jack it up and try to work out where the backlash is more closely, it could just be a front diff that has broken...

Removing the cover from the back of the transfer box will allow you to inspect the splines, you can remove the input gear at this point as well.

Heck, just draining the fluids and checking for sparklies has got to be worth it to try and narrow it down?

 

[pantherslover]

Ok bowie,  I've got limited things to work with here on the mountain but I've got railway sleepers and stuff to use as axle stands.

 

One thing is the when engaged   the diff lock light flickers on and on.  A bad Earth im assuming.

I should drain and inspect the fluids anyway so that the plugs and filler caps are ok and inspect the magnets for filings.  I'll shoot a quick video first of the backlash situation   maybe it sheds more light.  I get no clacking on turns and the prop shafts and linkages seem to be fine,  no lateral play detectable in either front or rear output shaft flanges.

[pantherslover]

Are talking about the pto cover?  The cover plate that faces down has some kind of sealer on it. Surely if i drain the oil and take that plate off that it will leak.  I need to find out what sealant to buy etc. Is the vehicle over priced or normal? Looks cheap compared to others available in spain. Second hand cars here are expensive compared to the uk.

[Bowie69]

Yep, the PTO cover, round one with ~6-8 bolts in it.

Should only get a very small amount of surface oil out from there.

If you take the large rectangular plate off the bottom, it is excellent access to inspect, but you will want to drop the oil first  Sealant is any normal silicon sealant.

No idea on price, not in Spain, but that does seem reasonable by UK prices, but of course we've not seen the vehicle

[pantherslover]

I'll put some pics on then   it's very clean,    motor bay is clean. Only real problem is this noise.

So it's over priced and on top of that has a problem that needs £££ spending on it?? Not happy.

[Bowie69]

No I wouldn't say it was overpriced

[pantherslover]

Ok so with the Halfords toolkit i wasnt able to move any of the pto cover bolts.  i know these have sealant applied to them on assembly,  but come on, i need to buy a 13mm 1/2 drive socket. The Halfords has a driver but only with 21mm upwards. Or a breaker bar ,  insanely tight they are.  the access from laying underneath doesn't help.

I was able to loosen the filler plug with the driver and my instict told me put something underneath,  even though no oil should come out, .  Well some did, enough for me to screw the filter plug back in.

So the tbox is overfilled? Why would this be. Looks questionable already.

This

[pantherslover]

Filler plug not filter plug.

 

 

[pantherslover]

Don't think I'll get either the tbox or the gearbox out on my own in any case. Looks to big and heavy and difficult, I've got limited facilities here,  the tractor driver might be able to help me maybe.

[tweetyduck]

its takes two although with a lot of swearing you can get a tranfer out on your own. I've done it more than once with no equipment other than a wratchet strap and a piece of wood from one window to the other.

[Ed Poore]

An alternative way is dropping it out the bottom with a trolley jack. Useful to have someone to steady it but not essential. I managed to do it on my own dropping both R380 and LT230 but having someone else would have been hugely beneficial.

[pantherslover]

Tweety, ed. I hear you totally, I'll need to buy a trolley jack.  I'll probably be on my own.  Friends / people  etc not going to be easy. 

I've just taken the front d shaft off.  Diff lock works as i was able to move the vehicle. 

Strange was that the front output flange can be spun either way and no effect on t case or rear driveshaft.  ( with diff lock disengaged. 

Seemed very strange,  if there is no purchase whatsoever?

 

I'm going to to drive to the local spanish pub 900m each way.

 

I'll report back later.

Thank you everyone for your continued support. !!

 

Next thing will probably have a go at the pto cover.  I broke all the bolts earlier,  needed a breaker bar to get them to click,  so should be easier when i actually attempt to remove the plate.

[pantherslover]

Anyhow with the driveshaft off its a bit quieter but the noise is more distinct.  Its definitely gearbox output shaft related it has the same cadence regsrdless of gear.

What's my next move. Still taking the pto cover off?. 

[pantherslover]

How would one get the tbox out from above?

[Ed Poore]

I'd be inclined to drain the oil first. Check for sparkles indicating metal shavings. You then have the option of dropping the bottom plate off now there's no oil. That'll give you complete access to the high / low gears. You can then prod and poke to see if there's any play.

Equally you can also put the gearbox in neutral and disconnect the props so you can rotate them by hand and feel for roughness. Something that might be useful is a piece of pipe you can put to your ear and poke around with the other end to localise noises. Helped me narrow down a squealing capacitor at work. Naturally chock all wheels suitably as you'll have no handbrake at this point!

One possibility is to wedge the clutch down so you disengage the engine as well and you can probably spin the gears from the transfer box.

Take things slowly and work through all combinations of gears etc and then hopefully we can narrow down the problem before you have to drop the box. Most of the above would need to be done anyway to drop it.

[Bowie69]

From your description now, it is beginning to sound like the transfer case diff. 

With front prop off, with it in gear bit out of diff lock, can you spin the front output flange? Any roughness?

If still drain the oil, it can tell you lots.

Is there any side to side play on the flange?

[pantherslover]

Ok, in gear. Difflock off,  the front flange has the normal +/- 10 degrees freeplay but doesn't turn.  there is no lateral or vertical movement,  in fact the flange support bearing feels good. 

When i hold the clutch down with a piece of wood i can turn it,  there is no discernable or identifying sound.  A bit clunky feeling,  the gearbox turns with the movement of the flange,  nothing feels gritty or obstructed. 

I'll take her for a drive to the pub again and take another video of the noise.

The unpleasant grating sound seems to undoubtedly comes from the r380, i feel the vibration of the noise in the gear selector but no such vibration from the Hi / lo difflock selector.

We're making progress and I'm gaining confidence working on this beast.

I'll post a video and also try spinning the gearbox in different gears.

[Snagger]

1 hour ago, pantherslover said:

Ok, in gear. Difflock off,  the front flange has the normal +/- 10 degrees freeplay but doesn't turn.  there is no lateral or vertical movement,  in fact the flange support bearing feels good. 

When i hold the clutch down with a piece of wood i can turn it,  there is no discernable or identifying sound.  A bit clunky feeling,  the gearbox turns with the movement of the flange,  nothing feels gritty or obstructed. 

I'll take her for a drive to the pub again and take another video of the noise.

The unpleasant grating sound seems to undoubtedly comes from the r380, i feel the vibration of the noise in the gear selector but no such vibration from the Hi / lo difflock selector.

We're making progress and I'm gaining confidence working on this beast.

I'll post a video and also try spinning the gearbox in different gears.

Difflock off (with front wheels lifted off the ground), the front outpu should be free to rotate.  If it's onl gtting 10 degrees, then the centre diff is jammed.

Don't rely too much on vibration or noise to locate the fault - the ratio lever is very short, but the gear lever's length makes it amplify vibration.

I suspect the transfer box, not the gear box based on your post.

[pantherslover]

Hi snagger, I've got the front driveshaft off already.  It only has the 10 degree freeplay because it's in gear and the back wheels on the ground with driveshaft. Out of gear the front output flange spins either direction without limit.  When i try to drive without the diff lock the front flange spins and i hear nothing untoward.

[pantherslover]