Grinding noise coming from transfer box.

[pantherslover]

There is a definite oil leak from the gearbox output shaft.  I know this from the colour of the oil.  The tbox oil is dark and contaminated  ,  but a clear yellow coloured oil weeps at the face of the join between tbox and extension housing of R380.

[Snagger]

On 13/08/2017 at 7:47 PM, pantherslover said:

Hi snagger, I've got the front driveshaft off already.  It only has the 10 degree freeplay because it's in gear and the back wheels on the ground with driveshaft. Out of gear the front output flange spins either direction without limit.  When i try to drive without the diff lock the front flange spins and i hear nothing untoward.

Can you spin the rear wheels (lifted) by hand and keep the front output still, the reverse of the above?

It does initially sound like the noise is coming from the rear output system, but it could also just be because turning things by hand does not put shafts or bearings under load.

[pantherslover]

Yes,  its exactly that situation.  When I'm using the engine to slow the vehicle down its worst.  And if i put the clutch in the sound goes away.  Even though all the bits are still spinning as the wheels are driving all the mechanisms still until the clutch face. No one seems to think it's gearbox related?  Did you able to hear the noise on the video. 

I don't have axle stands to back wheels of the floor will be difficult.

[tweetyduck]

output bearing on the R380. Usually the place they go and causes these symptoms. I know cos i've had one go. The bearing is hard to get and will have trashed the shaft. Currently only RHP make the bearing.

[pantherslover]

Finally someone who agrees with me.

So what's my next move? Sell the vehicle?  I couldn't rebuild a transmission here.

To replace that bearing does the R380 have to be removed.?

What do i do now?  I don't need to use the vehicle at all,  my neighbour more or less insisted that i buy it.

It cost about 4800 pounds sterling its very clean,  no rust been in spain i guess all of its life. 

Im lost.  I was in a bad place anyway before i bought this vehicle i don't need.

Here in Spain this will sell for 8000 euros and up (7000 pounds),  if the problem with the trans can be resolved.

 

Question is. Is it worth it?

[pantherslover]

Do i continue down the pulling the pto cover, output gear inspect the shaft splines? 

Or just take the vehicle to a transmission specialist .?

[pantherslover]

I've just spoken to a guy 160 km away that only deals with defender range and discovery.

It will cost around 900 pounds to get a decent exchange gearbox fitted.

That way i don't need to do the dirty work.

What are the opinions here of that?

 

Thanks in advance.

[Bowie69]

To me that sounds pretty good value...

[tweetyduck]

I'd empty both Trans and Gearbox of oil and see what it looks like. Empty them fast so any big bits are dragged out. Take a look at both oils carefully. Use clean containers.

That will almost certainly tell you which box it is. You really need to start looking rather than asking.

The Gearbox bearing cannot be changed easily. Its a box out and then box strip really. This cannot be done yourself unless you have tools, press and pullers.

If the bearing is gone then it will have destroyed the Mainshaft quite probably.

However, if you have the box out you can (I THINK!) pull off the oil seal collar and replace both the seal, bearing and collar in situe without splitting the box. However if you've got that far you might as well split the box and do the entire job.

 

[tweetyduck]

2 minutes ago, Bowie69 said:

To me that sounds pretty good value...

Agree.Recon box is £500 and book time is 8 hours to replace. So considering sundries and stuff. £900 is OK. 10 hours at £40.

I'd get a fixed price quote and take them up on the offer but ONLY once you know for sure. Get them oils drained and get some covers off.

 

[Snagger]

That sounds like good value if it is a rebuilt unit, and expensive if it is a used spare laying around their workshops.

Tweety is right - you need to drain them, and his suggestion of fast draining makes good sense.  that would be achieved by removing the filler plugs first, so that air can quickly enter and no vacuum builds up.  Use separate trays to catch the oil, ideally very wide to allow the oil to sit thin, and even better if you can use a white container to see better.  I'd recommend draining through a wire sieve to catch any bits as they come out.

[pantherslover]

Ok guys.  If it goes to the garage which is 160 km or so away then it will be on a truck as the dude says that it would be risky to attempt such distance driving. 

 

So there's no harm in dropping the oils. The garage would have to do this anyway. 

 

The guy seems very genuine and is almost exclusively lr rr work and was ex dealership when in uk.

He said it would be a recon box. He says he has pallets going back and forth to uk all the time. 

He also said the work would be guaranteed.

I'll drop the oils,  report and then i guess send the truck to this guy. 

Id really prefer not to have to do the work. And its this guys bread and butter so he shouldn't have any issues. 

Can do the crankshaft seal as well while he's at it. 

[Snagger]

Good plan.  Dropping the oil is still worthwhile as you'll likely see which unit is playing up.  Best to keep it to show the mechanics when they turn up with the low loader.

[pantherslover]

Ok, both oils dropped.  Both equally dark colored about two and a bit litres for each one. I know the gearbox was ever so slightly low but nothing significant and the tbox was slightly overfilled. 

And they both leak slightly. 

No

particular burned smell.

Some fine metal spines on each  magnet.

 

No bits of metal upon decanting into containers.

 

I have to go.  Back later.

[pantherslover]

So now its pto cover, input gear time?

[pantherslover]

Ok the guy i got this truck from says that the oil was changed before and after the knocking noise started and he says it's had very little use since the last oil change .

[Snagger]

It's normal to get some filings on the magnets, but he one on the right looks bad to me.   If it has only done small mileage since the last oil change, the other has excessive filings too.

Which has the burnt smell, or is it both?

[pantherslover]

No. Real burnt smell. I think the oils have not seen much work.  I believe the neighbour changed the oils after the problem arose, not him but a"mechanic"

[pantherslover]

You probably know this already but the one on the right is the tbox plug and the one on the left r380 plug.

[Mo Murphy]

I'd not be keen to disparage the neighbour from whom you bought the Land Rover but he seems to have imagined that he recently changed the gearbox oils.

Mo

[pantherslover]

He said about 2 years ago but he said he hadnt used it very much since.  I must say the oils look very old but there is a lot of dust up here.  Im thinking about taking the pto cover off now, I've nothing to lose now no?

[pantherslover]

https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/lt77-lt230-checking-the-spline-wear.226279/

 

This looks like what i need to doing. Then i can see the condition of the output shaft bearing.  No?

[pantherslover]

Ok,pto cover off. Input gear out.

Wasn't a great deal of play between splines. The output shaft feels solid.

If anything the races of the taper bearings on the input gear feel a bit ropey.

[pantherslover]

[Bowie69]

That all looks very good, does the gearbox output shaft have any wobble in it? I'm thinking that would confirm whether the gearbox output bearing is toast or not, as per @tweetyduck above.