Radically altered vehicles - lost points

[landroversforever]

Ex mod are usually a Q when they don't know or can't be arsed to find the actual build date.

[HoggyN]

Can't decide whether a suspension lift would lose you points or not ,you're not changing the suspension system ,just the rates/lengths of the spring .

Well, the length changes whenever you go around a corner or over a bump.

[ejparrott]

I thought Q had been ditched and you now got an age related plate?

[Bowie69]

Nope

Q is more prevalent than it used to be actually, I forget the details of changes.

[miketomcat]

If they can put an age related plate on they will and yes these days they do try but if the age can't be decernd or it's built from various bits you will get a Q.

As to ringing a Q yes it will be possible but it depends what's on the logbook and when it got it's Q plate don't forget everything is digital now. Plus for some reason people don't want/are scared of Q's.

Suspension lift is fine if you have use standard arms as springs are service replacement as long as it's coils for coils etc. Different arms are a grey area as you may get away with it due to it being the same style and you can swap back with no mods but it would be down to the inspector.

Mike

[Snagger]

Ozzy, you have to read the other posts if you want to engage in the conversation! As I said, the points system has been dropped at some point in the last decade (was news to me), so now you just need to retain any two of the listed mechanical assemblies in addition to the repaired chassis.

[Chicken Drumstick]

Ozzy, you have to read the other posts if you want to engage in the conversation! As I said, the points system has been dropped at some point in the last decade (was news to me), so now you just need to retain any two of the listed mechanical assemblies in addition to the repaired chassis.

Whilst I don't disagree with you. That isn't exactly what it says.

It says there are no points system for "Rebuilt" vehicles. But there is a points system for "Radically altered" vehicles. What it doesn't say is the difference between the two, or how you decide which category you fit into.

But as I said earlier, both systems boil down to an unmodified chassis + two major components. So it may not matter.

[Snagger]

I thought he was talking about fixing his HiCap, re-attching a rear 1/4 chassis, which counts as a rebuild, not a radically altered vehicle.

Just changing the springs wouldn't change the status of the suspension, based on the advice I was given by DVLA ten years ago (that may have changed too now), but reckon changing the radius and trailing arms for cranked and caster corrected items could, and they should be changed if lifting the vehicle as simply fitting long springs screws up the bushes and makes the vehicle far less dynamically stable because of the change in steering geometry.

[Chicken Drumstick]

I thought he was talking about fixing his HiCap, re-attching a rear 1/4 chassis, which counts as a rebuild, not a radically altered vehicle.

But what's the difference between the two? That's my point.

Just changing the springs wouldn't change the status of the suspension, based on the advice I was given by DVLA ten years ago (that may have changed too now), but reckon changing the radius and trailing arms for cranked and caster corrected items could, and they should be changed if lifting the vehicle as simply fitting long springs screws up the bushes and makes the vehicle far less dynamically stable because of the change in steering geometry.

Yep, someone who has say a 2.5TD 90 fitted with a 300Tdi and R380, cranked arms, castor corrected radius arms, Disco rear axle might be looking at only 7 points for the radically altered list and a Q plate. Which is almost comical if is wasn't so sad.

[Ozzy50]

I thought he was talking about fixing his HiCap, re-attching a rear 1/4 chassis, which counts as a rebuild, not a radically altered vehicle.

Just changing the springs wouldn't change the status of the suspension, based on the advice I was given by DVLA ten years ago (that may have changed too now), but reckon changing the radius and trailing arms for cranked and caster corrected items could, and they should be changed if lifting the vehicle as simply fitting long springs screws up the bushes and makes the vehicle far less dynamically stable because of the change in steering geometry.

I have always run castor corrected arms and cranked rears when using + springs but ,and this is a big but ,I castor and crank them myself which I would imagine is a big no no ,its a blooming minefield ,It's a pain in the butt if I can't use my bobtailed chassis as is without going through an iva test and/or losing my MUD reg ,the work done is to a high standard (if i do say so myself )and in no way compromise's the safety of the vehicle ,it is simply a mod that was done to improve the off road ability ,anyway instead of speculating about what is and isn't legal I'm gonna ring em and ask some "hypothetical" (spellcheck!)questions .

James

[supaimpy]

As to ringing a Q yes it will be possible but it depends what's on the logbook and when it got it's Q plate don't forget everything is digital now.

Mike

So you can find out from the logbook why its on a Q ? As ringing a Q onto a Hybrid seems the easy way to avoid an inspection

[miketomcat]

I depends why it got the Q plate if it's just undefined age then no as it will still say land rover 90 or whatever. But if it's a hybrid or kit that's been registered correctly at some point then it says something like tomcat 100 kit, two axle rigid body or assembled from parts. However since SVA and now IVA I suspect there is a copy of the inspection report and certificate on the DVLA computer tagged to the registration and v5.

The point is if you rebuild it to original spec using as many original parts and new replacement parts there is no reason to worry. But if you modify from original this includes fundamental parts engine, box, chassis etc then be prepared to have it IVAed it's not hard to pass with a little work. If not then just remember the day they do pull you up maybe the last day you see it the choice is yours.

If in doubt phone and ask for clarification.

Mike

[d-9]

So how many of the people on here have had to get an IVA/q-plate?

[HoggyN]

Not me. I only swapped to negative earth a couple of years ago, but I don't think that has lost me any points.

[miketomcat]

I will be putting my ibex through iva. There are at least two on here that have ended up breaking theirs due to not meeting points etc. Daan put his through sva and I think bowie did to. There is several others on here who have kit cars (tomcat, ibex etc) that have either sva'ed or iva'ed.

Mike

[Snagger]

A friend of mine has a Q-plate Lightweight because of its Designa coil spring chassis, the suspension and Wolf axles. He would far prefer the cost and agro of the IVA than the heartbreak of losing the vehicle after doing a concourse level of work on it. Some people have good reasons to try to hang onto original VINs, like me - my 109 is tax exempt,being from 1972, so that's why I can't modify the transmission; I need to keep it and the leaf spring suspension. I'd like to change the transmission to something tougher and quieter, and already bought a BW transfer box from Bowie so I can look into the option more when I return to the UK in the future, but I suspect that going IVA will be very expensive as I expect them to ramp up road tax costs on private diesel vehicles, especially those with new registrations.

[Daan]

So you can find out from the logbook why its on a Q ? As ringing a Q onto a Hybrid seems the easy way to avoid an inspection

We're back to 'getting out of it'. Please tell me why you want to go to this hassle to turn an illegal car into, well an illegal car. Just man up and do the test, probably less hassle than what you are describing here.

Daan

[supaimpy]

We're back to 'getting out of it'. Please tell me why you want to go to this hassle to turn an illegal car into, well an illegal car. Just man up and do the test, probably less hassle than what you are describing here.

Daan

I'm just asking as when buying a Landie on a Q as to whether theres any clear evidence available on say the V5 to state why its a Q, people may assume as its on a Q its legit, where as it would seem from the answers given its still as clear as mud.

Far rather do the test ,but just wondered in the mists of time what evidence it shows on a V5 rather than separate pieces of paper

[d-9]

Never seen any associated documentation to explain why a given vehicle is on a Q, although the rules say that is for 'uncertain identity', so I would assume it's failed a VIC, has missing or modified plates, etc. Of course lots of ex military stuff is on a Q, just because that's how they handled it for a few years.

Doing the test sounds so easy when you write it like that, but I suspect the reality is a lot more awkward. However this seems like something that a lot of people get unnecessarily stressed out about.

[Bowie69]

'Suspect' does not equal 'fact' I'm afraid, think of it like an extended MOT, with maybe 4 times as many points to check, and you are pretty close.

[sean f]

I went with a friend to get his kit car (Lotus 7 style kit not Land Rover but the test is the same) SVA'ed a few years ago and it was pretty simple provided you though about things as you built it, He failed on a couple of minor items which were fixed in and hour then retested that day.

In my opinion the test is a good thing for radically altered vehicles, most people will build things well and if mostly standard or well made components are used and a bit of though used in the cab you should have no problems. Most issues are likely to be due to sharp angles on things which can be removed or covered with a bit of though. Once you have passed you have the peace of mind of an independantly tested vehicle which if somehting nasty does happen you can stand up in court and say all work was done to a good standard and most importantly then checked by and independent tester and you have the paperwork to prove it.

What it will catch is some of the abortions going round with "tray back" bodies that look like they are about to fall off and are quite likely to be down right dangerous in and accident, badly welded shortened chassis and bodged up steering and braking systems. Since some of these will claim to be "classic" vehicles they won't get caught by and MOT as depending on how old they claim to be they might not need one. I hope know one on here has anything that would match that description but I bet a lot of people have seen them about and on ebay.

[supaimpy]

So if you have done an IVA or did an SVA has anyone got a copy of the paperwork given to show a pass? I've no idea what it would look like, or what it would say, MOT check is easy its online

If we want to stop ringing or fraud around Hybrids then surely it would help to know what to look for when these creations hit the 2nd hand market

The stigma around Q needs to be changed to Q=Quality but to do the public in general need confidence that theres an examination thats certifiable and documented in such a way it can be checked for authentisity . Hybrids are treated with caution and sceptisim, but if on a Q there should be no problem because it easy to check by the buying public, not just a roadside VOSA check

[miketomcat]

I'm not sure for iva as I haven't got there yet but when I did sva your pass certificate was handed over to the DVLA when you go to register your car (you could not get a registration without it) they then issued a registration number and v5. If the vehicle is a kit car the manufacturer will no longer be land rover. I don't know how a v5 is worded for a hybrid.

Mike

[Daan]

My reg just states land rover, 2500 diesel. There is no visible statement of what your car is, however, you have to supply the VOSA with supporting documents when you apply for the test. This includes receipts for most of the parts and pictures of the entire build. I dont know what they copy (they send the documents back and stamp the receipts with your reg number), but I imagine they keep at least a brief outline of what your car consists of.

Daan

[HoggyN]

Are these rules retrospective? Say the mods were done back in the 1980s when the regulations were a lot looser. I suppose the onus would be on the owner to prove the mods were done 20-30 years ago, although that might be impossible.