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lo-fi

Capstan winch scratch build - CAD, 3D print and cast.

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Thank you all! Had a little snafu with clearance between the new pulley and water pump yesterday, so many parts came off the front of the engine for measuring, head scratching, swapping and subsequent fettling. The water pump casting is different between my spare engine and the one fitted. The spare cleared the modified crank pulley nicely with room to change the belt, the other sat a couple of mm too low for the pulley to even fit. Annoying, but it's no fun if it's easy. 

 

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Made some progress on the mounting plate, which can be seen in the pics below. I'm going for stiffening ribs and a bottom support structure for the gearbox rather than one piece of thick plate:

 

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More to come once I've organised the latest photos and made some meaningful progress on getting everything fitted.

 

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Small update:

 

Pump is in! My spare water pump turned out to be a complete failure; seals totally failed. Fettling the original got it going, but I need to fit a new one really.

 

d9siVQu.jpg

 

I had a little redesign of the support bracket as I wasn't happy with clearance:

 

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I want to mount the oil reservoir where the washer normally sits, so that needed relocating. Only space available is on the heater box, so I made a bracket up and broke out the rivnuts. I did paint it before final fitting, honest!

 

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TTFN!

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Really good tread this !

Please, keep it coming.

I watch and learn - merci beaucoup !

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Cheers Arjan, really enjoying the project! So close to seeing it all working now. You can have a good look over it at Leafers :)

I've worked out a plan for the mounting plate now, which should include some interesting fabrication work. Just moved my mini slip roller / folder so I can fettle the bits I need and get it done over the weekend. 

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I'm watching with interest. Especially like the way you managed to squeeze the pump in for V8 crank drive.

Most folk I've seen running a crank driven pump have used a chain, or a toothed belt. I'm very keen to see how you get on a) with a plain belt drive, and b) with the PAS clutch. If this works, it's a good deal less faff than a PTO setup.

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2 hours ago, mickeyw said:

Most folk I've seen running a crank driven pump have used a chain, or a toothed belt. I'm very keen to see how you get on a) with a plain belt drive, and b) with the PAS clutch. If this works, it's a good deal less faff than a PTO setup.

@Escape had his MileMarker hydro pump driven off the serp belt as well. Seemed to work quite well, but isn't suitable for big power.

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Having seen how well Mouse's chain-drive worked and how much power you can get through a chain I wouldn't write it off. Chains are pretty tolerant and efficient compared to belts.

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Posted (edited)

That's interesting to know, Elbekko - thank you. Is there a thread for Escape's setup? Or any pics of the chain in Mouse, Fridge?

The belt I'm pretty sure will be fine. If that little 20cc/rev pump can demand more torque than the PAS, water pump, aircon and viscous fan that size of belt normally copes with, I'll be the proverbial Monkeys Uncle. The clutch might be the weak link, but the calcs I've done suggest not, assuming they're correct. A bigger pump, I'd not be so confident.

Wouldn't be a DIY project unless there was a decent chance of comical failure, would it... I'll be back into it getting the mounting plate done over the weekend so I can hook it all up and test without having to lash stuff up or tear it apart again and cover myself in hydraulic fluid. I've been daydreaming all week about seeing that capstan bollard spinning away when I flick the switch for the first time :D

Edited by lo-fi

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My mistake, it was petal had the chain drive, mouse had a mini propshaft off the crank. Both pumps were of similar physical size to yours but no idea on power / load.

Here's Petal's MileMarker spooling in under a little load:

 

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What pressure are you going to set the PRV to ? That type of motor doesn't like much more than 180 bar iirc.

 

The power and torque to drive that pump under full load and flow will definitely test the belt and clutch too , of course driving a capstan is a different thing to driving a cable winch . This is such a good project all round , I've been following it with interest and looking forward to seeing it in operation .

 

cheers

Steve b

 

 

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A little info on my hydraulic setup. I started with a 30cc pump on my Defender, with a V-belt and an electromagnetic clutch. Not a success, the belt started slipping when wet or when full power was needed. Upgraded to a chain, inspired by the setup on Petal. That moved the weak point to the clutch. We designed a cable operated clutch, but unfortunately that broke on our first stage in a Russian swamp...

On the P38 I had a smaller pump, 8.5cc. Speed was not an issue (although it could rev to 5000rpm to get a good output), reliability was. Drive was via the serpentine belt, with the pump installed where the aircon compressor normally sits, and an electromagnetic clutch matched to the pump and factory fitted with the correct pulley for the belt. That worked very well, never noticed any slip. I plan to install a similar setup to my 'new' Range Rover, possibly with a slightly bigger pump, but nothing to extreme.

Good idea to mount the oil tank where the washer bottle sits. I'll have to relocate/change that anyway to clear the bigger tires.

Best of luck!

Filip

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On 3/28/2019 at 4:52 PM, FridgeFreezer said:

Here's Petal's MileMarker spooling in under a little load:

Quite impressive. The capstan will be a wee bit more sedate than that! 

23 hours ago, steve b said:

What pressure are you going to set the PRV to ? That type of motor doesn't like much more than 180 bar iirc.

That all depends on what the clutch/belt end up being able to handle. I'll find my notes and calcs to post later - I suspect 100 bar would probably be more than adequate for my needs. Spot on with the motor, that's its continuous rating.

22 hours ago, Escape said:

A little info on my hydraulic setup.....

Thanks, that's great info. I'm not winch challenging, so looking like what I've fabricobbled should be OK for my pottering about.

 

Looking forward to making some solid progress over the weekend :)

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Not as much progress as I'd have liked because the other half decided she wanted to collect a greenhouse. Which needed disassembling and took the whole of Saturday. Such is life.

I did manage to get some bits done today, though. A mount for the top bearing and stiffener ribs for the mounting plate. Quick CAD drawing helps figure out what metal to cut:

 

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First I needed to roll a ring. Much easier done in two sections:

 

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Piece of metal from the scrap bin was almost perfect size to fit inside as a support:

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Clamp and weld:

 

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And on it goes along with some edge plates:

 

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Stiffener plates cut and going in:

 

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Round plate opened up to take the support bush:

 

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The sleeve that fits in that bush is a press fit on the shaft. It needs heating, pressing on and maybe a set screw or two to hold it. Once that's all fitted up, I can bolt the gearbox in and set everything up and make sure it's all concentric before tacking it in. The bent stiffener plates that will act as crush tubes around the bolt holes are still to come. I may yet roll another larger ring and cut sections... Depends how I feel at the time!

 

After that, it's time to man up and tackle a few of the jobs there's no going back from. Welding the plate up, cross drilling the input, welding the motor support tube to its end plate. Scary stuff as it's hours of work to recreate if I mess something up! Stuff to sleep on before you fire up the tools. Then it all needs paint. The end is in sight; wish me luck!

 

TTFN

 

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Not as much progress as I'd like due to work and steam engines getting in the way, but I did manage to get out into the workshop last night.

 

Adding some re-enforcement around the bolts holes, so rolled another two part ring and made some spacers to hold the segments in position while welding:

 

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Heated the thrust collar to go onto the shaft:

 

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On it goes, and I got my first peek at what it looks like assembled:

 

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That's it for now; I'm hoping to get back to it this evening.

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11 minutes ago, lo-fi said:

Not as much progress as I'd like due to work and steam engines getting in the way, but I did manage to get out into the workshop last night.

Looking good! however, you can't say things like that without photographic proof :P 

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I guess it's rude not to elaborate on that ;) I volunteer as part of the team that look after this old girl:

 

DKLMnXdm.jpg BTci8W5m.jpg ExSQVDbm.jpg

 

We've been at the South Devon Railway having a jolly good time:

 

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After a winter spent replacing cylinder cover studs, along with the thousand other little jobs needed to keep a steam engine running like a Swiss watch:

 

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I'm also about to lead a group to overhaul another loco:

 

UeqatOmt.jpg DSnNgiVt.jpg JiUmdN2t.jpg 

 

If anyone wants to get involved, volunteers are very welcome - PM me if interested! We're based at Buckinghamshire Railway Center in Quainton nr Aylesbury. 

Literally living a boyhood dream :D

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Ever hear of the Flour mill in the forest of Dean? Bill Parker? They rebuilt Metropolitan 1 for the underground celebrations.

It's a great workshop.

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Not met him, but I've heard the name. I know Met 1 very well, though! She's a Quainton loco, and I've crewed her (as a trainee fireman) a few times on the Mid Norfolk. Cracking loco. 

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Nice Lo-Fi!

I'm also a fellow steam addict, although life gets in the way.... I've been a member of the Swindon and Cricklade for about 15years or so I think it is now! Haven't visited in a long time though :(. I spent all of my lunchtimes at secondary school building and rebuilding stuff for the S&CR (the old MSWJ railway back in the day). Did a lot of work for the Toplight project there, and also the Shark brake van they converted. I also built the level crossing gates by the ticket office from scratch :) 

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Fantastic! Nice to have made a mark on projects like that and keep the rich heritage alive, isn't it. 

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I love the engineering. Solid heavy stuff. Sand cast, built to last generations, and be rebuilt with basic kit.

Bit like a series, but rusts slower.

The missus would love a brake van as an office. I know that some day she'll find one through a contact and I'll have to refurbish it for her.

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1 hour ago, Gazzar said:

Bit like a series, but rusts slower.

There's just more metal to rust... Decay under anywhere coal dust can get, then soak up some moisture is terrifying. Coal bunker plate work is literally a consumable item! :rofl:

Brake vans do come up now and then, a couple of mates of mine have one they use as a caravan. Brilliant to ride on the balcony too. 

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Oh, the missus is railway, she'll find one, no doubt, just a matter of time.

 

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I'm a Talyllyn Volunteer, as well as being a Model Engineer.

 

There was a number of vehicles listed on the traction pages on Facebook a few days ago.  There's a also a holiday camp on one of the railways using a Toad as a chalet.  Can't remember where right this minute

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