NRS91 Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 Looking good Ross! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted February 12, 2018 Author Share Posted February 12, 2018 Small update to progress on the 3-link.... Building the first full mockup. Feel free to fire off any questions or suggestions on the design as normal Obviously at the moment the radius arms are still on there. I'm going to get the link lengths roughly right at ride height, strap them together to hold the length and then I'll strip and rebuild without the radius arms in there. Then I'll be able to test cycle the system and see what the clearances are actually like! One issue I came across is that I haven't put the 'shims' on the outside of the original radius arm brackets so the joints are hitting the insides of them at the moment, so I'll sort that when its apart later. Talking of which. One of the things I want to do when I build this is reinforce the radius arm brackets. As I need to make them slightly wider on the outside anyway (at the moment they're the same width as the joint, I need to allow for a 3mm weld washer each side) this is the perfect opportunity to make a spacer that's welded to them and get some attachment to the axle casing too. All the while retaining the option to remove the 3-link and revert to radius arms if needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NRS91 Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 Nice work Ross, hows the up travel of the lower links against the radius arm mounts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted February 12, 2018 Author Share Posted February 12, 2018 It will be snug, but should be OK. I'm building it to clear at worse-case with no bumpstops on the chassis. Not checked it yet as I need to strip and rebuild it all without the radius arms on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NRS91 Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 fair play bud look forward to the full test fit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted February 12, 2018 Author Share Posted February 12, 2018 Likewise... but fearful of it in equal measure!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NRS91 Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 its only got two choices bud... itl either work or it wont lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbekko Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 17 hours ago, landroversforever said: Likewise... but fearful of it in equal measure!!!! Make it self-clear 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted February 13, 2018 Author Share Posted February 13, 2018 It would have to be able to drive for that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soren Frimodt Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 Turning out really good Ross, you know I'm a sucker for K.I.S.S. so I really appreciate how you've incorporated the failsafe of being able to refit the RA's Not that I doubt what you are doing is going to be strong enough mind you! But sometime in the future when you're on a crazy adventure in the deep russian jungle with the missus and a link or bracket breaks, a stock LR RA will be much easier to find I know I'm being picky here, but wouldn't it be stronger to put a radius on the corners of the hole which the tierod travels in? Especially the rear upper corner where there's very Little material could be a stress riser? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soren Frimodt Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 Just read your other thread and got my answer as to why the hole is Square Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted February 13, 2018 Author Share Posted February 13, 2018 Yeah for as the box section is going right through all 4. By the time it's prepped for welding and welded inside and out there won't be much of anything left of that corner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soren Frimodt Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 Yeah I kinda figured that out, sorry for wasting your time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted February 13, 2018 Author Share Posted February 13, 2018 No problem Soren, not a waste of time as there could be others reading this thread and not the other Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 Have to say, I would still use the original mounts on the axle and chassis for the axle links. I am aware of your constraints, but the forces do not work in a straight line and are badly offset. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soren Frimodt Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 Hmm forces do work in a straight line, they can just come from multiple angles at once Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 That bottom bracket will have a tendency to buckle up especially with that large square hole in it. I am sure it still will get reinforcements, but it is still a very delicate way to transfer the force from the axle to the link. The bracket on the chassis has that very same problem, not to mention it hanging low down. The bottom M10 is going to take the majority of the forces, so a bit weak really. The other issue I can see is the bottom link to go up past the dead centre and the axle to toggle forwards in case of a big impact, as mentioned previously. Not wishing to punch holes in the design, but since this thread is about discussing 3 links, It is the right place to vent my thoughts. Daan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted February 18, 2018 Author Share Posted February 18, 2018 Don't need know if you've missed the bit I added after Soren's question but that's going to have a bit of S355 box running through the cutouts and across the car, plus there will be more gussets and playing to box in the brackets. The original axle end mount is never going to work as it's about 1" above the axle centreline. Add in that 4" above the centreline is the max I can go up with the upper link I'd only be left with 3" of separation which isn't going to work. For the chassis bracket most of the forces will be going through the original chassis bracket. I've not done any work on that part yet but it will be tied back to the original radius arm mount on the chassis. The inside plate hasn't got anything like that it can be attached to but it will be tied into the opposite side with a slim crossmember (to fit under the LT230) and that will be tied in with the upper link crossmember. So that should spread the load a bit to the 8x M12 holding the upper link crossmember as well as the 3xM12 on each lower link bracket (6x total). Not sure what you're meaning with the movement Daan? The lower link axle end to go up above the axle centre line? That would need the link to fail wouldn't it? As for punching holes in the design, it's all helpful discussion, especially if it means I post details I might not have previously mentioned! Brains are good at filling in the details in a post but only when they're in your head Keep it coming . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carloz Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 Looks nice... but... I would prefer that the joints of the lower arms would be located under the axle to make it more stable. Now they are so far backwards that the force in the arms will be enormous while stepping on the brakes: the axle wants to turn with the wheels. This because the upper en lower joints on axle are quite close on one line with the joints on the chassis.. At least it looks like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted February 26, 2018 Author Share Posted February 26, 2018 They just can't go there Carloz. They are as close to the axle as they can be without sacrificing another 4-5" of clearance under the axle. The separation from the upper link is more important than the distance from the axle. Unless I'm misunderstanding you I can't see the forces on the links when braking being any higher than standard. You might have to try and explain in more detail what you're meaning with the joints being on one line? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lo-fi Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 (edited) Think of it as a triangle, is what Carlos is getting at, I think. What you've designed makes a very shallow one, which acts as a force multiplier when pressure is applied pushing the point between the short sides towards the longer one. The shallower it is, the more mechanical advantage it has. Whether that's a problem or not for the exact geometry and forces involved probably needs some calculation. I'm sure you've covered this, so apologies if I've no doubt missed it in long threads, but wouldn't 1 link have been a much simpler, more compact and easier way to go? Pick up on the original axle mounts to an A frame (which could itself have that cunning box section stiffener/steering guard built in) with a large spherical or multi axis joint at the chassis end? Ought to be skookum as frig as AvE would say... Edited February 26, 2018 by lo-fi More thoughts 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soren Frimodt Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 1 hour ago, lo-fi said: I'm sure you've covered this, so apologies if I've no doubt missed it in long threads, but wouldn't 1 link have been a much simpler, more compact and easier way to go? Pick up on the original axle mounts to an A frame (which could itself have that cunning box section stiffener/steering guard built in) with a large spherical or multi axis joint at the chassis end? Ought to be skookum as frig as AvE would say... Problem with one-link though, is it handles like cr@p Works average offroad, but terrible onroad. 4 link with a Panhard (5 link to some) works the best in every situation but is a PITA to package so 3-link is a decent compromise. But of course a proper setup one-link handles better than a poorly setup 4-link so as always comparing can be difficult Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carloz Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 On 26-2-2018 at 6:06 PM, lo-fi said: Think of it as a triangle, is what Carlos is getting at, I think. What you've designed makes a very shallow one, which acts as a force multiplier when pressure is applied pushing the point between the short sides towards the longer one. The shallower it is, the more mechanical advantage it has. That is exactly what I ment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carloz Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 On 26-2-2018 at 7:23 PM, Soren Frimodt said: Problem with one-link though, is it handles like cr@p Works average offroad, but terrible onroad. What kinda carp does it handle? Well... I would like to know what the drawbacks are compared to the original setup. Basicaly it is the same apart from that it is connected at one point in the centre instead of on two points L&R.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soren Frimodt Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 33 minutes ago, Carloz said: What kinda carp does it handle? Well... I would like to know what the drawbacks are compared to the original setup. Basicaly it is the same apart from that it is connected at one point in the centre instead of on two points L&R.. Yes and that is what makes all the difference. Its basically because its a big difference in roll centre. The vehicle will easily 'Flop over' when most of the weight is put on one wheel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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