OT: Thinking about a new 4wd pickup. Experienced views invited :)

[landroversforever]

It's no different to a transit having a second row of seats.

[Retroanaconda]

Without wanting to be the one to slap a damp squid on it he'd have to be careful if he did as he's changing the purpose of the vehicle in both the eyes of the deparrment of transport and the inland revenue

I am sorry, but I have to...

[Happyoldgit]

Do you need the second row of seats Steve? A farmer friend of mine has a D3 commercial and absolutely loves it. Happily tows well over the legal limit weight wise. And being a commercial has loss of room in the back. As he only needs extra seats occasionally he's looking at fitting the two rear most seats in as the space under the floor is still there.

Thanks Ross but it will have to be a crewcab

[Cynic-al]

Unfortunately for some things the revenue class a transit with 2 rows of seats as a car not a van :/ Although I assume a discovery is classed as a car derived van which is different again? Plus the v5 would be wrong. I guess it depends how the vehicle sits in the business and the likelihood of being caught which is pretty slim.

Either way the chap says he wants a double cab so it's out, evenue though they are lovely to drive

[Ed Poore]

Steve, is this a work beast or you just fancied a pick?

The 3.5t capability limits things somewhat I think as the only new vehicles I've heard of offering this are the Ranger, some Isuzus and most Land Rovers, maybe a Dodge as well?

Dropping the tow capability down to 2.5 or 3 gives you a few more options I think.

[Tanuki]

I'm sort-of in a similar mind-mess: what to replace my 90TD5 with?

The 3 options so far seem to be Nissan NP300 Navara, Ford Ranger [both fitted with a box on the back] or a Discovery "Commercial".

The Navara and Ranger have prehistoric rear suspension and - hell - *drum* brakes on the back, just like it's the 1960s. Navaras have small 2.3 litre 4-pot engines which I wouldn't think would play too well with an auto. The Ranger has a 3.2 litre 5-pot engine and autobox (albeit only a 6-speed).

The Disco is 3-litre V6/8-speed automatic, has a good interior, intelligent suspension/transmission and disc brakes all-round so would be better for my usual fast-road/towing usage.

Which is going to depreciate the most over 3 years/60,000 miles?? I'm trying to convince myself to go for the Disco and the dog seemed to like the one I tried a while back.

Tax is also relevant: I'd want to register it as a commercial vehicle to escape the VAT and stupid UK "luxury-car-tax-because-it's-over-£40,000" first year vehicle excise duty.

[Cynic-al]

Here's your tax info on the disco commercial.

http://vantax.co.uk/newcar/companycar/vancalc/g5calc.cfm?carAlreadySaved=1208879&clk=3&source=car&USERID=84727463&ANNCON=0&id=160252&UCID=1208879&CAPCON=0

Pickups are a compromise vehicle, they can do a bit of everything but arn't the best at anything. If you can afford the disco and it will do the job you need it for then why not?

In terms of depreciation as you can usually get pickups at a good price I've never lost too much when it's time to sell.

[Shackleton]

How does the D4 fit in the legislation in the UK? In Ireland it's load capacity (by virtue of percentage of total interior space I believe) is large enough that a 5 seat D4 can be bought as a commercial vehicle while retaining the rear seats. So you can buy a new fully fledged D4 HSE say, and claim the tax back. Could be worth looking into?

Not relevant but interesting that there's a grey area in Ireland at the moment where any full sized 4x4 can be reregistered as crew cab once it's been weighed, and a permanent structure is in place between passenger and load areas. The owner must be registered for VAT and have proof of the employ of at least three people. Everyone with a VAT number is doing it and ignoring the other requirements as it cuts road tax by 2/3. The void between the Department of Trans and the Gardai means it's not being policed and as it stands there are passenger D2's, D3's, RR Sports, FFRR's and all sorts running about as crew cabs and companies have popped up who offer the "conversion" as a service.

[Mo Murphy]

I have no experience of driving crew cab pick ups but the new Ford Ranger is shiney and you could wash and polish it every Sunday morning. All your neighbours will consider you most hardcore.

There is a Ranger2 forum coming to a site near you soon.

Mo ?

[Cynic-al]

Basically in the UK if the vehicle is based on a car but the manufacturer has removed the rear seats and panelled the back windows then it's a car derived van and has thr same rules as a car regarding vat, Bic rfl and speed limits.

If it's only ever been built as a van and has one row of seats with a dedicated load area behind its a van in all the above senses.

Then there are the exceptions which get a bit complicated.

Its a van if it can have 2 rows of seats so long as it can carry a tonne after all accessories fitted. That used to apply to everything including crew cab vans, 5 seat defender 110 etc. Recently they restricted it to pickups only so a crew cab van with a flatbed van is, a crew crew cab van with a panel back isn't a van.

The problem with a pickup being classed as a van is your restricted to 50MPH single carriageway 60mph dual which is a problem as they're putting specs on the a1 which know what limit you should be doing. There is a work around if your vehicle is a dual purpose vehicle. To qualify for this it has to be under 3000kg unladened and be 4x4 or have a certain load area to passenger area size ratio. The isuzu is 2900kg the Ford is 3200kg so in theory the Isuzu can do 70 on the a1 and the Ford only 60.

Confused yet?!?! There's more if you look into it and a lot of it doesn't seem to make much sense.

[Shackleton]

To qualify for this it has to be under 3000kg unladened and be 4x4 or have a certain load area to passenger area size ratio.

That's the premise that is being exploited here for commercial road tax on vehicles that weren't strictly built as commercials. It sounds as though some careful research into the laws in the UK might be beneficial.

[Cynic-al]

That should read under 2000kg sorry typo.

Problem with the UK is company cars are so expensive now for the employee you have to look at every way to save a penny as aftwr all your paying hundreds a month for a car you'll never own.

Plug in hybrids are good for bik at the moment but they're going up. Land rover announced a while ago they were going to do one but I haven't seen anything yet.

[Shackleton]

Steve sorry for straying from the point, but on the off chance that some favourable legislation has been missed I thought you might be interested in reading the actual story behind the law I was talking about in Ireland. From what I've read the Discovery 4 is designated N1 from the factory (N1 being a goods vehicle under 3500kg). Seemingly this is an EU standard and as such - as far as I understand what I've read - the taxman (in any European country) is obliged to recognise the designation. I could be completely wrong but have a read of these two articles and see what you think.

http://www.independent.ie/business/farming/savings-of-10000-likely-as-new-rules-unveiled-for-jeeps-30340286.html

http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/motors/conversions-can-put-drivers-on-wrong-side-of-law-1.2088496

George

[Cynic-al]

I don't think it's been missed, if you look the vehicle up on comcar it has the same VED and BIK as any other van.

http://vantax.co.uk/newcar/companycar/vancalc/g5calc.cfm?carAlreadySaved=1208879&clk=3&source=car&USERID=84727463&ANNCON=0&id=160252&UCID=1208879&CAPCON=0

However I thought the OP already said he needs a crewcab? They only come as 2 seaters.

[reb78]

Get one of these:

I spent a week driving this one in the US and loved it! It even managed 30mpg (imperial gallons). I'd have one here if it would actually fit on British roads!

[Shackleton]

I don't think it's been missed, if you look the vehicle up on comcar it has the same VED and BIK as any other van.

http://vantax.co.uk/newcar/companycar/vancalc/g5calc.cfm?carAlreadySaved=1208879&clk=3&source=car&USERID=84727463&ANNCON=0&id=160252&UCID=1208879&CAPCON=0

However I thought the OP already said he needs a crewcab? They only come as 2 seaters.

You're missing the point, LR designate the FIVE seat D4 as N1 from the factory, that means in the eyes of the EU it's a commercial vehicle under 3500kg. The second article mentions five seat offerings from Toyota and Mitsubishi that fall under the same designation.

[Cynic-al]

Sorry I missed that, I'm afraid they wouldn't count in the UK so unless someone is willing to take it to the EU? I couldn't say who holds the power anyway as in France if you take the back seats out of an Audi it's commercial so there must be some member state freedom?

[L19MUD]

Reb - I did the same. I drove one for 2 weeks last year - F150 3.5 V6 Ecoboost. 365bhp and managed 27 UK mpg (I was sad and kept all fuel receipts) over 2000 mixed miles

I seriously considered getting one instead of a newer Range Rover I loved it that much.. It is a massive improvement over a Ranger

The cost of getting a decent spec new shape one over here was the biggest factor in me sticking to a Range Rover TBH. The older ones don't have the Aluminium body but some do have the Ecoboost engine

IF Land Rover gave the option of a similar engine I would be out of my diesel 3.6 TDV8 in a flash

Sorry for the slight thread derail!

[Ed Poore]

IF Land Rover gave the option of a similar engine I would be out of my diesel 3.6 TDV8 in a flash

SDV6? 306HP, apparently 35+mpg in both RRS and FFRR variations.

Sorry for the continued derail...

Back on topic - how about asking Bowler to put the Jag V6 into the body of your choice. They've done it already :-) with their 110 - pretty sure there's someone on here who works for them, just Friday afternoon can't think who.

[L19MUD]

Ah but that is still a tractor engine!

The Ford Ecoboost is a petrol

[landroversforever]

SDV6? 306HP, apparently 35+mpg in both RRS and FFRR variations.

Sorry for the continued derail...

Back on topic - how about asking Bowler to put the Jag V6 into the body of your choice. They've done it already :-) with their 110 - pretty sure there's someone on here who works for them, just Friday afternoon can't think who.

Discomikey is your man

[Ed Poore]

Thought it was but was getting confused by another DiscoMikey on disco3 who is based in Scotland and a service / garage man.

Cheers

[Happyoldgit]

Just to update this...

And the final choice is a 3.2 Auto Ranger Limited 1. Why? Mainly because of Ford's extensive dealer and servicing and spares network.* Not only that but I got a damned good discount via one of the organisations I belong to that nobody else could, or were willing, to match. I felt the Limited 1 was a compromise between practicality without the bling of the Wildtrack.

*Whereas all the Land Rover main dealers are now a bit thin on the ground around here.

[rich broom]

My vote would be the Isuzu rodeo.

Auto tows really well 3.5t.

Done plenty of towing miles in them.

[Happyoldgit]

Perhaps but as I said I made the decision partly based on distance away and number of dealerships, the nearest Isuzu places to me are not exactly that local.