Rover V8 help.

[Scooby Jim]

I am having issues with the Rover V8, this maybe the Carbs as I had them restored by Burlen, and apparently were set to manufacturers settings (need setting up).
I am aware that this could be the issue, in that the balance, mixture, and idle needs setting up.

BUT........

Engine set at TDC*.

Rotor arm pointing to Cyl 1 literally points at Cylinder 1, directly at the front bolt passenger side of the inlet manifold.
Leads are set in correct order.

Leads on Dizzy set as 1 8 4 3 6 5 7 2.
Points removed, and replaced, with a hall effect electronic module, and new Rotor arm.
Brand new low pressure fuel pump.
Brand new coil.

Will be getting new leads, new dizzy cap, new plugs.

Exhaust wise, manifolds and y-pipe only (VERY LOUD).

Now when at Idle, and set timing a tad retarded with a timing light she idles fine (revs with a slight miss).

Set to TDC she is lumpy, farts and misses, revs badly and sounds like its spluttering.

Set to a tad advanced, and she coughs through the carbs, and dies and cuts out.

*Now could the engine be 180 degrees out to the Dizzy??

I have NOT removed the Dizzy.

I bought the vehicle as a non runner, and have had it running, but its always not felt right, be that bogging down when revving, or idling at 2000rpm.

I have videos of her running, but for some reason my Photobucket will not upload videos

[Davo]

Carbies have to be waaay out of tune to cause that much trouble. If they're near enough for the moment, the engine will run fine.

Why is the rotor pointing at #1 cylinder? It should be pointing at #1 spark plug lead. Or am I missing something . . .

[HoggyN]

Does the vacuum advance work?

I've had problems with misfiring simply because a couple of ignition leads were touching each other. That was with electronic ignition though.

[02GF74]

Engine at tdc, would not cylinder 1 be on compression stroke?

Easy to check by whipping off rocker cover and looking at valves, both should be closed or put thumb on spark plug hole when turning engine over by hand.

V8 has twice the number of cylinders than a 4 pot so has to be something pretty major to stop idling.

Without looking it up timing is generally 10 btdc.

[Bowie69]

Did you push down on the dizzy shaft when removing the arm? If not then you could have dislodged the springs and the rotor arm is now flapping about....

Swap the points back, at least rule them out.

[ballcock]

As Davo has said No. 1 lead does not normally come off the distibutor cap opposite No.1 cylinder. Have you got all your lead positions wrong although sill in the right order?

[garrycol]

Engine at tdc, would not cylinder 1 be on compression stroke?

Could be on the exhaust stroke.

[Scooby Jim]

Carbies have to be waaay out of tune to cause that much trouble. If they're near enough for the moment, the engine will run fine.

Why is the rotor pointing at #1 cylinder? It should be pointing at #1 spark plug lead. Or am I missing something . . .

It is pointing at #1 spark plug, but also pointing at #1 cylinder too. (See below)

Does the vacuum advance work?

I've had problems with misfiring simply because a couple of ignition leads were touching each other. That was with electronic ignition though.

Vacuum advance is goosed, the diaphragm has gone (will be getting another).

Engine at tdc, would not cylinder 1 be on compression stroke?

Easy to check by whipping off rocker cover and looking at valves, both should be closed or put thumb on spark plug hole when turning engine over by hand.

V8 has twice the number of cylinders than a 4 pot so has to be something pretty major to stop idling.

Without looking it up timing is generally 10 btdc.

Yeah well ANYTHING tdc or advanced make it run like a bag of poo, if at all (I think she is sparking on exhaust stroke).

Did you push down on the dizzy shaft when removing the arm? If not then you could have dislodged the springs and the rotor arm is now flapping about....

Swap the points back, at least rule them out.

Yes I did, spark is NOT my issue I think (points were fudged ). What I do need is someone to take their dizzy cap off whilst at tdc so I can see the orientation of the rotor arm, thats assuming the dizzy hasn't been fitted incorrectly.

As Davo has said No. 1 lead does not normally come off the distributor cap opposite No.1 cylinder. Have you got all your lead positions wrong although sill in the right order?

I set the crank to TDC (allegedly) and this had the rotor arm pointing at the cylinder 1.

If I can get a pic of the rotor arm at TDC then I can see straight away if she is 180 degrees out.

Could be on the exhaust stroke.

Thats what I am thinking tbh.

This is the pic I was referring to in that the rotor arm at TDC points at cylinder 1.

Which is basically this.

Now I have found this online, so assuming this is correct, mine is indeed 180 degrees out.

Popped into Lidl earlier for some Brekkie as I was working last night, and I like their croissants. Anyways picked this up, has a mirror attachment so I can see what the Valves are doing too.

The more I am thinking about it, the more I am thinking that the engine is not timed up correctly, esp as it runs better with timing retarded.

[Scooby Jim]

Right I have gone out and done the old fashion test first, finger over the plug hole and turn the engine by hand.

Now the piston in cylinder 1 is indeed at the top, and with the rotor arm pointing at lead 1 for cyl 1.

Spark plug removed, then fingertip placed over the said hole, and the engine cranked.

First thing I noticed was suction as the engine was turned, then not a lot tbh, then as the engine had gone around too nearly twice, there was a fair bit of pressure coming from said hole and then stopped.

Just before this pressure stopped I checked a look at the engine crank and it was a little before tdc (on the mark), then just before it hit tdc, this pressure stopped.

So this to me says its setup correctly


I'm making an assumption here, so as long as the rotor arm is set to fire electric down the lead to the cylinder that is needed, at the correct time, and all are in the correct order, then the orientation of the dizzy is of no real concern??

Now I tried running mine advanced, reading the SD1 manual it states this.
Dynamic (with distributor vacuum pipe removed).
10 Degrees BTDC @ 1200rpm.
17 Degrees BTDC @ 1800rpm.

22 Degrees BTDC @ 2600rpm.

Mine was idling fast at 2000rom, and would run like poo at TDC, then advancing to slightly one mark BTDC she farts and pops and cuts out.
Something is not right lol.

[Scooby Jim]

http://vid159.photobucket.com/albums/t125/JamesAllen1982/LANDY/Timingcarbs/802277e9-10c8-4611-b029-908a75468045.mp4

[HoggyN]

Are you using a strobe?

[Scooby Jim]

Are you using a strobe?

Yes bud, this is how I know that if I get her to near TDC when running she starts running like a bag of poo.

[missingsid]

When I used t have a Dizzy that is how I set the leads tbh though the position of the vacumn advance pretty much dictates where the dizzy sits. Once tou remove the dizzy and re insert it the dizzy shaft could be in any position so all you can do is to set it up for cyl 1 as it sits and add leads accordingly as you say.

I was tought that for a RV8 you set at 10 deg btdc then when running turn the dizzy untill it runs best but does not pink under load. But maybe you can't iget it that far?

[Eightpot]

If it's popping spluttering and a bit of backfire it sounds like the dizzy could well be in the wrong position -

Take off the rocker cover on the bank for no1, then check the valves are closed when engine is at tdc - much easier than trying to guess with a finger.

Mark where no 1 lead position on the dizzy is on the side of the distributor - that diagram you have shows the wrong position for no 1, looking down from the front it should be at the 5 0'clock position - not entirely critical of course but makes life easier if everything is in a known position.

Undo the dizzy clamp and remove the dizzy, then reinsert so the rotor points at the spot you marked - you will need to insert it about 30 degrees anti-clockwise before your mark as the skew of the drive gear will pull it round.

Double check the rotor is pointing directly at no 1 cap now, clamp down the dizzy, cap on, leads on (triple check lead order) and it should fire up (if points are set correctly)

Then set timing with a strobe - you might want to double check the recommended timing against the serial number on the dizzy, my 3.5 runs great at 7 btdc.

[HoggyN]

Is the little TDC pointer thingy on the front cover in the right place?

[Bowie69]

Indeed ^^^ They have been known to be a LOT out...

[Scooby Jim]

From how it runs, I tho k the plugs need changing, and the marker for tdc is out.

My thinking for this is as follows;

when the engine timing is "retarded" (according to the mark on TDC), assuming that the mark has been nudged to the right so advancing the mark, by timing to the new location could lead to my timing being way too far advanced. By doing so cause all the issues I have above, the coughing spluttering, and general carp running.

My plan of attack next is this.

Remove plugs, and compression test (just for health check).

With a helping hand put a small socket extension bar into cylinder and when the crank is moved slightly back and fore determine when the piston is exactly at the top, and then see how this corresponds to the timing mark thing.
Fit new plugs gapped correctly.

Remove dizzy and replace the vacuum advance.

Refit dizzy, with new cap, and leads (currently have Britpart leads).

Then get running without using the timing marks, as if I can get her running sweet, then the timing must also be correct. Then get my strobe and see how far out the timing mark is to the mark on the pulley.

The only real way to see what is going on would be to take the cover for the timing chain off, but thats more work than I'm hoping to do atm. Maybe worth doing if, or when, I change to ecu controlled ignition and coil packs.

[Bowie69]

Use a piston stop for TDC, search on here, been covered.

How do you know the carbs are right?

[Scooby Jim]

Use a piston stop for TDC, search on here, been covered.

How do you know the carbs are right?

I dont and Im assuming that the fuelling is incorrect and the idle is also, BUT the problem I have Im sure is ignition timing. And that the mark (thin bit of plate) has been bumped, so that when I advance the engine to this mark or slightly advanced of that I'm moving the timing too far advanced, so igniting the fuel/air on the pistons upstroke, rather than just at the top/downstroke.

I will look for the piston stop TDC.

Have ordered New leads, 8 x NGK BP5ES, and a new dizzy cap, and new vacuum advance.

I will remove the Dizzy to replace the vacuum advance, and go from there.

[Scooby Jim]

I take it that this is the way to do it??

If you want to very accurately find TDC then take an old spark plug and smash out the centre. Fit a bolt or piece of threaded rod through with a nut either side so that you can adjust how much pokes down into the cylinder. Make the end of the rod nice and rounded. Fit into the spark plug hole.

Very gently rotate the engine until the piston reaches your stop. Mark the front pulley at the timing pointer. Rotate the engine the other way until it again reaches your stop. Mark the pulley. True TDC is half way between your marks. If your stop is too long the marks you make will be a long way apart and make life difficult so adjust the length of your stop so the piston gets nice and close to the top of its travel.

Steve

I shall be making one of these in the next few days, ingenious.

[Bowie69]

Yes exactly, I have the one I made here

Having said all that, an RV8 will run quite happily 10 degrees either way, it is pretty tolerant..... I think checking it is a good exercise, but reckon you will find the issue with weak mixture in the carbs.

[Davo]

Which carbies? Later CD175s with the adjustable needle are easy to check if you can take the pistons out and check that the needles are flush with the bottom of the pistons as a starting point. SUs I'm not sure. They'd have to be way out to cause this much trouble though. I spent an enormous amount of time adjusting mine when I had some problems and found that once they're generally right they'll work.

[Bowie69]

Recently rebuilt SUs ^^

[Scooby Jim]

Yes exactly, I have the one I made here

Having said all that, an RV8 will run quite happily 10 degrees either way, it is pretty tolerant..... I think checking it is a good exercise, but reckon you will find the issue with weak mixture in the carbs.

She runs nicely tbh, its just as soon as I try and time her up I get these issues, yes she dogs a bit if you dump the accelerator, and she likes a bit of choke to start.

See if you can watch this video from Facebook, I've set privacy to public so it should work.

http://www.facebook.com/Jimbob.Voaden/posts/10156936493045316

Yes she is a tad smokey, as I had put some oil in the cylinders, and a tiny bit of two stroke in the petrol, to help coke things up.

[Bowie69]

Got oil in the dash pots?