bodumatau Posted February 17, 2017 Author Share Posted February 17, 2017 hi Bowie, thanks for answering, you can always be relied on for help ;-) this was my idle settings before I changed back to Nigels original settings: and this is after changing back to Nigels settings: and nothing has changed for the start except it revs a little higher for a few seconds with Nigels settings, then still gets choked down as the PWM closes. try it again immediately after and the PWN does its thing and doesn't choke the motor down....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 My ambulance does that too, laziness has prevented me from looking into it so I'm hoping you get it sorted and I can copy your homework 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodumatau Posted February 17, 2017 Author Share Posted February 17, 2017 Haha FF !! that would be like the schoolboy teaching the teacher a trick!! what my little brain can't figure out is WHAT changes from the first start to the second, ALL the info the MS is getting is still the same as the first start (running for 4-5 seconds from dead cold doesn't change any temps more than 0.1 degrees.) and yet, like clockwork, first time = choke down, second time = perfect textbook start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodumatau Posted February 19, 2017 Author Share Posted February 19, 2017 how do I find the fully closed and fully open values for my Bosch extra air valve? (PWM valve or whatever we want to call it) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodumatau Posted February 19, 2017 Author Share Posted February 19, 2017 a tentative...... very tentative celebration, seem to have fixed the 2 start symptom (maybe only cause it is a few degree warmer today), but now have to wait another few hours till its cold enough to confirm my hopefulness..... let you all know tomorrow. one other question, revving directly after starting, is this directly related to the warmup enrichment? she revs up to 1600-2000 rpm after the start now for 3-4 seconds (which I don't like) and then settles down to the cold rev (set at around 1000), which tells me it must be something else cause the warmup enrichment doesn't change in the few seconds after start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 Revving is the extra air valve probably open a little too much for crank, reduce number by 3 and see what happens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodumatau Posted February 20, 2017 Author Share Posted February 20, 2017 and that would be the "Cranking(dc)"?, funny thing is that I had decreased is from 90 to 80 with the implementation of Nigels "base" settings, and it still revved higher on the start. but. I had my "idle valve frequency" at 200 instead of 100..... (alltoomuchformylittlebrain) nevertheless I will try decreasing it by a few numbers and see what it does, thanks for the tip Bowie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodumatau Posted February 20, 2017 Author Share Posted February 20, 2017 ok, so just been in my chucking filly garage and fiddled a bit. 1. my coolant temp sensor is off by about 10 degrees, another thermometer read 5,6 degrees and coolant sensor said 14 degrees..... how important is it that this is accurate? it seems to come in line with my VDO gauge over 50 degrees and read the correct temp in the engines operating range but at low temps it is out. 2. adjusting the "Cranking(dc)" didn't change the high revs on startup but changing my "idle valve frequency" back to 190 did, I previously had it at 200, now tried to fiddle with it between 100-150-180-190, seemed to get the best results at 190, so now have to wait for the engine to cool down again so I can try again...... hurry up and wait.... 3. @FridgeFreezer, today she again didn't choke down after start, I have adjust the lower parameter of my EAV much lower than i had it before, whether these are now the correct settings for where my valve actually opens I have no idea but it seems to be working, I think I had the wrong values in there and because the EAV didn't see values it recognised it just shut down to minimum....? ?? .... hypothesising here with ZERO fabric to prove what I am saying!!!!! but hoping I am onto something.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 Sorry didn't realise cranking DC was so high, bring this to 45 and see what happens. Basically bring it down so you get a reasonable high burst after starting, and you can do this hot, so much easier than other warm-up tuning. 80 will be too high. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodumatau Posted February 20, 2017 Author Share Posted February 20, 2017 ok thanks Bowie, I only tried as low as 70, but will try lower and see..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodumatau Posted February 21, 2017 Author Share Posted February 21, 2017 so it appears my rejoicing was premature @Fridge freezer, still chocking down after the first start, but seems now to wait a second or two longer before closing down. so I still need to find out why it chokes down after a few seconds after startup. I still suspect it is connected to the max/min parameters of the EAV, anyone know how to test them? I have sorted the start up revving Bowie, used Cranking(dc) 45, now revs up to about 1200 for half a second then settles nicely to my warmup rpm of around 1000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 Stalling straight away, you still need more ASE, and longer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 Datalog a start and see what's going on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodumatau Posted February 22, 2017 Author Share Posted February 22, 2017 (edited) @Bowie69, not straight away, it revs, settles, and about 4 seconds in I can hear the EAV choke down and it kills the engine. here is the first log with the engine dying after about 4 seconds. 2017-02-22_10.51.08.msl and here is the restart straight after that settles and idles fine. 2017-02-22_10.51.33.msl and after 4 seconds on this one (ok 3,87ish seconds) the PW goes into idle mode and regulates the idle perfectly. Edited February 22, 2017 by bodumatau Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodumatau Posted February 23, 2017 Author Share Posted February 23, 2017 (edited) could it be a fuel pressure problem? this is the first start this morning, for some reason the fuel pressure reads -6 just after the start, in the first 4 seconds increases to about 4+ and then decreases again to 0 just around the time the engine is dying. 2017-02-23_08.42.40.msl and the start right away after that the fuel pressure comes up quickly and remains at +6/7. 2017-02-23_08.42.53.msl Edited February 23, 2017 by bodumatau Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 That 37 in your VE table, change to 41, a hole like this in your fuelling can wreak havoc. Around idle you want all the same fuelling, no more than 1 or two different per cell. Do you have a fuel pressure sender???? If not then the figures you suggest are just spurious, and can be ignored. To be honest with you, I would kill the closed loop idle control, you do NOT need it, and believe it to be complicating things for you, a LOT. It can mask the true problem by trying to fix a bad idle, when actually what you need to do is get it idling properly without any crutches from cold, then in the future, if you feel you need it, go closed loop. I don't tend to do closed loop any more, way too much hassle, and can get a perfectly good smooth idle, which reacts properly to load changes such as fans/AC/auto box engagement without the idle valve doing anything. So to go back to basics, I would change your closed loop to 'warmup only' and then open your idle valve to 45 DC for cranking as you have above. This simplifies everything.... if you have too many variables going on, you WILL start chasing your tail. Looking at your graph, the engine is definitely leaning out as it comes down from the surge after starting. Can you post a pic of your ASE table to compare please? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodumatau Posted February 23, 2017 Author Share Posted February 23, 2017 (edited) thanks Bowie, um ... ahhh... ASE? which one is that ?? After Start Enrichment? Edited February 23, 2017 by bodumatau i think i remembered Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Yup The one I have been telling you to tweak for 3 pages now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodumatau Posted February 23, 2017 Author Share Posted February 23, 2017 ja sorry Bowie, I have been known to be hard of listening...... ok so I have changed to "warm up only", the idle was a bit high so I fiddled with my upper and lower parameters and settled on 41 and 31 (figured that as it was too high at 25 and only got higher as I went down to 24,23 etc I tried going up and it got better till 31 and then started revving higher again, hope my logic works) here it is with my ASE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 And one of your WUE table now.... (warm up enrichment ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodumatau Posted February 23, 2017 Author Share Posted February 23, 2017 luckily I came prepared. one thing to note is that my coolant temp sensor reads about 10 degrees too warm at low temps, so 5 real temp is read as 15/16 by the sensor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 It's not critical, plus minus 10% whatever, the RV8 can happily swallow a LOT of excess fuel before it cares. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodumatau Posted February 24, 2017 Author Share Posted February 24, 2017 I'm not sure I agree that it is after start fuelling, it is still dying after first start, and running sweetly immediately on the next start, if it was WUE then it should die again. if it was ASE it should also die again as the only parameter that has changed is that it has warmed up by 0,5 degrees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 Combustion chamber is much warmer, which is the important thing. I would still give it more ASE and then test over next few days. See what happens. Increase figures in ASE table by 30% and see what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodumatau Posted March 6, 2017 Author Share Posted March 6, 2017 so..... tried to add 30% to the ASE, started, DIED, ARRGHH!!!! then I moved the enrichment one temperature level up since my coolant gauge reads about 10 degrees to cold at low temperatures. also changed the MAP mode during ASE to a constant one and this morning it started perfectly and didn't die!! now I am hoping that it isnt just another lucky strike, will try a few more cold morning starts and hope this solves it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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