=jon= Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 Hi I know there's been a few brake pad threads on here, but another one never hurts... I had to change the pad recently on the front of the 110 (vented discs, later type solid pin & cotter pin calipers). I ordered another set of mintex pads (STC2952M) and swapped them over. The old pads appeared to be exactly the same mintex part number on the back of the pad. Ever since they rattle like crazy and drive me mad, and a moderately large hill will cause them to smoke / fade. Having a look at them they are very loose in the caliper, whereas the old ones weren't, so I wonder if they have changed the composition and the fit slightly... Any suggestions on some new pads that will take a reasonable amount of downhill without fading, and fit the calipers well enough to not drive me bonkers?? Thanks Jon 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landrovernuts Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 I have just fitted Delphi pads all round on my 110 and the brakes are transformed from whatever the previous pads were (fitted with previous owner). I did however fit the anti squeal material that you can get from Mintex, to the bottom edge of the pad steel back to stop them rattling in the calipers. They have been perfect since. All pads that I have ever fitted to any of my previous Land Rovers have always rattled! Toby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
=jon= Posted June 29, 2016 Author Share Posted June 29, 2016 Thanks - is that the stuff that's like sticky back rubber that you can stick on the pads? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 Not really ever had a bad experience with Mintex pads, quite the opposite really -though not discounting your experience! Their fast road pads are excellent. What thickness are your discs at? Could be they are overheating due to the discs being under size, and not dissipating the heat properly. Also, do check your caliper for wear, the loose pads could be the right size, but your caliper now undersized. Having said that, I did a quick search as to who makes Mintex now, and seems to have changed to some point, both pagid and Mintex are made by TMD friction, and this post does give a good comparison: http://www.tmdfriction.com/en/home Now the weird thing is, buying Pagid from ECP for my Audi (at £53 an axle set!) left me with squeaky brakes and less performance than whatever was in there before.... I guess what I am saying is that if what you have is no good, try something else until it is good, ECP list Eicher, Pagid and Brembo for my RRC, I know I wouldn't bother with Eicher, and that is about it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil110 Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 no idea who made this particular set but the last axle set I bought from here were made by Ferodo and they will just about stand the truck on its nose https://www.thexmod.com/item_detail.asp?id=4068&t=Brake_Pads_LPG506_/_3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaklander Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 =Jon= I was about to start the very same thread! I have been plagued by rattling pads since I started driving my 110 CSW over a year ago. I had replaced all callipers (AP), the front vented discs (as they were way undersize) and I replaced all pads (Mintex). They were fitted with new rods and springs that the rods pass through. They rattled until I nearly went mad - especially on bumpy roads. I cured the back by using a set of Gen LR springs - the kind that clip around the pad but my fronts have remained as is and nearly drove me nuts again on bumpy roads on a trip we've just completed. As I know the discs and callipers are good on my vehicle, I was going to ask the forum why the pistons wouldn't just hold the pads and stop the rattles? I suppose that they are moving back (too far?) into the calliper and don't touch the pads at all at rest. Is this correct or should they not move back as much? I don't know what determines how the pistons retract but I suppose it's the reverse hydraulic action as the master cylinder piston itself moves back - and that would be determined by the pedal pulling back up. Is it something to do with master cylinder travel? I was wondering about changing that until I read this thread. Otherwise from the previous replies it would really seem that it's down to pad dimension variations and that means some experiments for me too. PS I should say that I don't suffer from fade and the braking effort is good (as far as I know) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landrovernuts Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 Yes, it is like black rubber which appears to have like a Kevlar weave in it (or similar). Costs pennies and sorts the problem out! So far from all the pads I have tried the Delphi ones are the best (in my view!). I used to like Pagid, but they changed their formula. I have been around the Ferodo factory in the Czech Republic and even the staff there say the fiction materials are changing in order to make the pads last much longer at the expense of disc wear and noise. I absolutely hate the green stuff pads which seem to be more brass than anything else and in wet weather are diabolical as they seemed not to grip the disc in wet weather and then suddenly grip. Other pads I have tried do not seem to do this and so these pads got chucked in the bin!! Obviously this is my experience and others will differ! Toby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil110 Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 Land Rover do a fitting kit to go with the front pads. Comprising: 4 very light springs (through which the retaining pins fit) pins and stainless steel split pins. Stops all rattles and squeals. Item 19 on this page. http://numcat.ru/landrover/p/31/52911/ Yes I know it shows solid discs, but this is the kit supplied for vented discs http://www.brit-car.co.uk/product.php/93981/0/brake_pad_pin_kit_vented_disccovery_1___defender___range_rover_classic =Jon= I was about to start the very same thread! I have been plagued by rattling pads since I started driving my 110 CSW over a year ago. I had replaced all callipers (AP), the front vented discs (as they were way undersize) and I replaced all pads (Mintex). They were fitted with new rods and springs that the rods pass through. They rattled until I nearly went mad - especially on bumpy roads. I cured the back by using a set of Gen LR springs - the kind that clip around the pad but my fronts have remained as is and nearly drove me nuts again on bumpy roads on a trip we've just completed. As I know the discs and callipers are good on my vehicle, I was going to ask the forum why the pistons wouldn't just hold the pads and stop the rattles? I suppose that they are moving back (too far?) into the calliper and don't touch the pads at all at rest. Is this correct or should they not move back as much? I don't know what determines how the pistons retract but I suppose it's the reverse hydraulic action as the master cylinder piston itself moves back - and that would be determined by the pedal pulling back up. Is it something to do with master cylinder travel? I was wondering about changing that until I read this thread. Otherwise from the previous replies it would really seem that it's down to pad dimension variations and that means some experiments for me too. PS I should say that I don't suffer from fade and the braking effort is good (as far as I know) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaklander Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 Land Rover do a fitting kit to go with the front pads. Comprising: 4 very light springs (through which the retaining pins fit) pins and stainless steel split pins. Stops all rattles and squeals. Yes they are the "normal" springs which don't seem to do much. I changed those twice but really they don't put enough outward force. I suppose it's just possible that Gen LR ones are much better springs??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GW8IZR Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 The last Mintex pads I used had a soft bitumen like pad on the back and they don't squeal or squeak at all. I always copper slip all the retaining bits and that seems to help as well. On a related subject - I've spent a lifetime driving cars with poor brakes ( compared to modern cars ) so my LR driving style means I hardly ever use them, by anticipation and driving to the conditions means the pads last for ever. Different on the old rally car where I had hard pads that needed to be 'used' to get them to work but didn't fade. Now for my 90 I was wondering if anyone makes a 'soft' pad that might suit my use a bit better. I wouldn't care if they wore out ten times faster as that would still be years of service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landrovernuts Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 I have just got home and rescued the greenstuff pads from the bin if anyone wants to try them (fronts for a 110 and some 90's)they have loads of life left! Toby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephencdavies Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 I've always used Pagid on road cars. i've just put a full set back and front, discs and drums on. so far the brakes have worked well. ( apart from a knackered master cylinder ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
=jon= Posted July 24, 2016 Author Share Posted July 24, 2016 Just as a quick update to this - I bought some of the EBC anti-squeal sticky back rubber stuff at the weekend and put it on the back of the pads. I also swapped to the old style non-vented caliper springs: I kept the existing pins, binned the coil springs and used those instead. The pads are now much, much more secure! I'd say this was the key, rather than the sticky back stuff... So - happy bunny - no rattles from the pads over bumps, no clacking from the grooved disks picking up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaklander Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 That's interesting; sounds like a result. Do you have a part number for those particular springs please as I'd be very keen to try myself? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
=jon= Posted July 25, 2016 Author Share Posted July 25, 2016 PFK346 is the part number for the fitting kit as above. That's what I ordered, although I didn't use the pins - just the split pins and the springs.. The cost is about a fiver Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaklander Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaklander Posted September 5, 2016 Share Posted September 5, 2016 (edited) Just as a quick update to this - I bought some of the EBC anti-squeal sticky back rubber stuff at the weekend and put it on the back of the pads. I also swapped to the old style non-vented caliper springs: I kept the existing pins, binned the coil springs and used those instead. The pads are now much, much more secure! I'd say this was the key, rather than the sticky back stuff... So - happy bunny - no rattles from the pads over bumps, no clacking from the grooved disks picking up. Finally I have time to do some work on my Landy. I've now got this mintex set but I don't know how to use it - at least I don't know how to fit the spring bits. It's a bit embarrassing I know. Existing "rattley" set-up is that I have the pins passing through coiled springs and held with split pins. The front pads rattle lengthways - that is they move in the direction of rotation. If I add these long pins, where do they locate? Can anyone shed any light? Thanks Edit: I think that they each tuck under the pins, one on each side with the middle part sprung over the middle tab on the pad. Edited September 5, 2016 by Peaklander Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
=jon= Posted September 5, 2016 Author Share Posted September 5, 2016 Edit: I think that they each tuck under the pins, one on each side with the middle part sprung over the middle tab on the pad. Yep - that's exactly it. When they are fitted you shouldn't be able to rattle the pad any more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephencdavies Posted September 5, 2016 Share Posted September 5, 2016 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaklander Posted September 5, 2016 Share Posted September 5, 2016 Guys - amazing quick responses - thanks. It's fantastic how alive this forum is. I've been doing some work on a Honda CR-V for one of our daughters and the forums over there aren't the same! This is how I've done mine with the spring on the outside of the pads. I did this as I thought there would be less chance of interfering with the ends of the coiled springs than if I were to tuck them on the disc side of the pads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
=jon= Posted September 5, 2016 Author Share Posted September 5, 2016 I ditched the coil springs when I fitted the 'old' type retainers - they didn't seem to do anything anyway! You may find with new pads you don't have enough space to fit them the way you have... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted September 5, 2016 Share Posted September 5, 2016 Glad to see someone fix the rattle - my RRC front pads do the same, with the weak coil springs doing exactly nothing to help. I always preferred the pressed leaf spring affair like on the back calipers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephencdavies Posted September 5, 2016 Share Posted September 5, 2016 the picture i posted was pre brake overhaul. they didnt rattle before or after. i dont have the coil spring. maybe the rattling is to do with the type of spring. i'd ditch the coiled spring and fit the other springs on the inside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaklander Posted September 5, 2016 Share Posted September 5, 2016 I've been chasing this rattle for almost two years (not full time ) and there are all sorts of theories about how to fix. I had already fitted new discs, calipers and pads and once I got somewhere hot and had the windows open all the time I really noticed the rattles and they became annoying. I tried different fitting kits but as Snagger says those coil springs are useless. I made my own shims to fit between pad and pistons halfway round Greece when it got too much, but I was sure there would be a better solution. Once I saw =jon='s solution this summer I was just waiting for a chance to fit it myself. Surprisingly I couldn't find a photo on the interweb to show them. Yes maybe they could go on the other side although it probably doesn't matter - they still go on the caliper side where they go around the middle tab so could interfere. Anyhow thanks again for the help and for the thread with your solution =jon= Now I've got to refit all the CSW seats as I promised to drive the bridesmaids to a friend's wedding in a couple of weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
=jon= Posted September 7, 2016 Author Share Posted September 7, 2016 No probs - I got the solution based on the collective knowledge from here, so I can't take any credit! A thousand or so miles later and my brake pads haven't rattled once, so I hope it's as successful as you as for me! I figured out the smoke on (very) heavy sustained braking too - the inner hub seal was weeping slightly, the oil running down the vents of the disk - when the disk got hot enough it would make the oil smoke! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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