FridgeFreezer Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 Another way of saying it is that the trim value is only applied to values from the ignition map. So, to adjust the trim value by eye using a timing light I find it easiest to set the whole ignition map to one value, and then adjust the trim until it's coming out right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quattro Posted September 20, 2016 Author Share Posted September 20, 2016 Well, that could have gone better Started the engine and it hunts when cold, so I let it warm up. Ticking over ok when hot. Drove up the drive, but I did have to control the revs well with the throttle to keep it going. Clicked on the auto tune and it did start to get easier. Then it started getting difficult to keep the engine running, and it would die if I pushed the clutch in, so back to the garage. Engine died just outside of the garage then refused to start, so I pushed the car in. There was a box which came up on tunerstudio saying that stopping the session would lose all of the data - so I clicked ok, as I had no choice. Turned the ignition back on so that I could try and find out what happened but the tunerstudio stayed greyed out and said it was Not Connected. Tried starting the car anyway, but to no avail. So, out with the electrical tester. I turned on the ignition and could hear a quiet tapping coming from the back of the car. I put it down to the fuel circulating, but it got a lot louder when I pulled the main relay to check the wiring. I put the relay back and went to the back of the car to find the light tapping coming from the fuel relay. Changed the relay for another one, still clicks without connecting. So I have no fuel pump and no coils, possibly why it won't start I did put my hand on the ECU and main plug to check it wasn't hot - it wasn't. I have now been back out to see if it still does it (about an hour later) and the relay still clicks, but is now louder. Any ideas? On a positive note, I have driven the car with the megasquirt fitted, and I have found the water leak and fixed that. Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 Is the clicking on/off/on/off about once a second? Because that means the ECU doesn't like its configuration and is refusing to play. It could be the error messages you had earlier about MSQ mismatches mean that TunerStudio has for some reason not used the right format of MSQ (different ECU firmware versions use different settings) and when trying to auto-tune it's basically loaded in values that the ECU doesn't like. Either that or communications was lost half-way through loading settings into the ECU, perhaps your serial adapter has played up and nixed the whole enterprise. 1st things 1st you need to restore the connection to the ECU. I'd check the serial adapter is still appearing correctly on the same COM port, then try to talk to the ECU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quattro Posted September 21, 2016 Author Share Posted September 21, 2016 I've plugged the serial adapter in, and had a look at it on screen. It's still on com port 3 and says its working correctly. Unplug it and this info disappears, so that seems correct. I've tried to count the clicks, they're around 4 per second, but it does as you say, seem to be trying to connect, but something somewhere doesn't want to. I have reloaded the msq from Nige, so basically restored it to the base figures, but it still says it's Not Connected so I can't burn that to the ECU. I'll try it with Megatune later, see if that will talk to the ECU. Two things I have done - don't know if they're important. 1/. When installing the ECU, I did plug and unplug it a lot to make sure it was in the right place. During one of these plugging ins, I did manage to bend one of the pins on the socket. I just bent it back carefully and it seemed fine. Looking at the wiring diagram, this was pin 37 which is the earth that fires the fuel relay 2/. I deleted (saved to separate HD) a huge amount of picture, files, etc to make the 'puter run faster. I am just using this laptop for megasquirt now, nothing else. I then defragmented the HD and ran the disc cleanup, removing temp files etc. This was just prior to going out and running tunerstudio. Richard 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quattro Posted September 21, 2016 Author Share Posted September 21, 2016 Tried loads of stuff, reinstalled the adapter driver, shook fist at it, unplugged everything including the car battery, tried megatune, scratched head, and it just came on - and worked Problem is, I don't know what the hell was wrong with it! Never mind, its running and quite well too. I will book an MOT asap and hopefully it will pass and I can get out on the road, tuning Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quattro Posted September 21, 2016 Author Share Posted September 21, 2016 One question, does autotune tune the spark map? Or is it a matter of playing around with it? Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 No, spark map is pretty much by ear and feel while driving.... Auto tune is fuel only, and of course will change if you change the spark map! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quattro Posted September 21, 2016 Author Share Posted September 21, 2016 Cheers Bowie, I'll start reading up on that bit then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quattro Posted September 27, 2016 Author Share Posted September 27, 2016 MOT? Passed Advisories? None Now, on the way to work with autotune happily changing everything it looks at, I notice that when I let off the throttle and coast, the AFR goes above 16?* Is this right? When I use the throttle again it goes back to 13-14.5, but not very smoothly. Will this improve with use, or do I need to do something? Richard *Years ago I fitted a WB just below the N/S collector to help tune the Weber, it goes from 10 - 16. It's still there just running a gauge on the dash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted September 27, 2016 Share Posted September 27, 2016 Going lean on overrun is pretty normal, why do you need petrol on overrun? Check the fuel setting for fuel cut on overrun and see what it says You may find upping the RPM at which it happens improves the smoothness when you re-apply throttle. A quick search on google will get you some more results for sure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quagmire Posted September 27, 2016 Share Posted September 27, 2016 Wahey! I cruise at 16.2:1 so getting anything around there on overrun will be fine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted September 27, 2016 Share Posted September 27, 2016 Bit lean for a RV8... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quattro Posted September 27, 2016 Author Share Posted September 27, 2016 Been reading so much my eyes hurt Most of what I read says to cut the fuel at one RPM then start it at another. E.g. turn off at 1,500 RPM and restart at 1,100. But I can't work out how to do that as I have only one box to put the RPM in Is this as different type of MS, or am I missing something here? Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted September 27, 2016 Share Posted September 27, 2016 Get used to the eye-bleed In your screenshot, basically the fuel cut off only works over 1800rpm, depending on your driving style this may be never If you are finding it jerky when re-applying power, it could be this (I would disable it while tuning anyhow, just to remove one more variable from the mix), and raising the limit can improve it. Other alternative is the acceleration enrichment, this is a good one to get right, as makes for a much, much smoother ride. My tuner studio has binned itself (just) so cant get a screenshot, but basically you blip the throttle to get various different rates of change of TPS and tune in extra fuel at the points, makes a really big difference. Crucially before all that, get your fuel map well tuned, and then start mucking about with the superfluous stuff, as things like AE depend (or can) on you having a broadly correct fuel map. E.g. tune AE from idle, with 40 in the VE table bin, get it right, decide you want 42 in the VE table now for a better idle, and your AE is not up the snuff! Warmup also a very good one to get right as next on the list after the VE table. The reason for the different versions of screens about is due to firmware improvements over time, you have to second-guess some things, but in the end tey seem to make sense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quagmire Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 13 hours ago, Bowie69 said: Bit lean for a RV8... Yeah, I have been running like this for almost a year now no problems touchwood.... (famous last words) I have been tempted to try 16.5 but haven't quite ever been brave enough to go any further! I should point out for the main audience of this forum that this is in my P6. Cruise in this is quite different to the Land-Rover! At 70mph on the flat I have a manifold pressure of around 45kPa, so the throttle is barely being cracked open in this condition. AFR rapidly richens as the load increases, going to just below 13 at WOT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quattro Posted September 28, 2016 Author Share Posted September 28, 2016 15 hours ago, Bowie69 said: If you are finding it jerky when re-applying power, it could be this (I would disable it while tuning anyhow, just to remove one more variable from the mix), and raising the limit can improve it. I messed aro..... ermm adjusted it prior to reading this, and dropped it to 1,500rpm, which actually helped. Didn't occur to me to turn it off I lowered the KPa and TPS figures a bit as well. Went off for a drive round last night with the autotune working away, and it did improve the driveability quite quickly, until 30 minutes in a suicide jockey in a corsa decided red lights didn't apply to him. I rather stupidly thought green lights meant I could carry on, and so did the chap in the left hand filter lane who turned left and blocked the corsa, who then managed to stop right across the road in front of me! Luckily P6s have awesome brakes and I stopped dead in my tracks. I lost all of the data though as the laptop ended up in the footwell, disconnected. I pulled around the corner and stopped to get all of the stuff back onto the seat, and the chap who had slid down the road behind me (sideways) stopped behind me, walked up to my car and asked me the stupidest question I have heard this year. "Did you see that idiot in the corsa?" He then proceeded to tell me his life story, which included his memories of P6s in his early life, discussion on how long I had owned the car, what had I done to it, what's a '4000S' etc etc. Another half hour past and by the time he had gone, the battery in the laptop had almost died, so I went home. I'll give it another go soon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quagmire Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 I always belt my laptop in, and although it seems I dodge nutters on a daily basis, have luckily never had anyone do anything stupid while I've been out tuning! The fact that it was dialling it in quickly is a good sign, you should have it sorted in no time! One more thing that can give jerkiness is the decel fuel setting which is under the acceleration enrichment menu. This momentarily reduces the amount of fuel when you lift off. If you set that to 100 for now that will be one less thing sticking its oar in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 Yep as quagmire says, development fuel % is another to turn off while tuning Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quagmire Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 Turns out it's not all sweetness and light this EFI malarkey, my HP pump has just died leaving me stuck in a crack den of an Ncp car park... if it was carbs I could at least whack a jerry can on the roof and gravity feed it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quagmire Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 ...well the AA were totally useless. They couldnt recover me because they had nothing that would fit under the height restriction. Spent most of the evening with them phoning me and apologising, I never even saw a patrolman! In the end my amazing wife loaded up her car with tools and my spare pump and made the 35 mile drive to me. I jacked the car up in the NCP and changed the pump myself, fired up first time. Got out the Ncp sharpish and moved to an open air carpark before grabbing some dinner and a very brisk drive home. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quattro Posted October 2, 2016 Author Share Posted October 2, 2016 Tuning's going well, learning more all the time and the car is now pulling strongly right up to the where I think the red line is. The tacho isn't working yet so I am having to guess, so am a little cautious. Three small problems have arisen though. Firstly, the dip stick comes up in the middle of the engine on a P6B, right under the throttle body. So being a clever dick I just turned the P clip that held it onto the rocker around so it came up further forward. It still hit the air flow tube so I put the actual dipstick in back to front. I did notice a clicking noise when I started the car for the first time, and it took me a while to work out that it was the dipstick (it didn't do it when I took it out). The only thing it can be is the crankshaft hitting it as it's in at the wrong angle I eventually took it out, cut the top off, then rebent what was left to form a new top. Dinky dipstick doesn't click, but I may have to take the elbow off to check the oil. Secondly the MAT sensor has punched a hole in the underbonnet sound insulation, it's simply sits too high. I have had to turn the air flow tube round a few degrees, although the build manual said it had to go at the top. Now it turns out that the air filter, which did look too big, is too big and also fouls the underbonnet sound proofing. Smaller one ordered, Then hopefully all will be well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chazza Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 Nice work Quattro! Reference your dipstick - I had a similar problem with a 200tdi engine in my S3 and I managed to bend the outer tube forward to make it work, but the dipstick is still a bit stiff and hard to get down the tube. What I considered doing - and later noticed that the new cars at work have - is a flexible wire instead of a stick. The distance from the top of the tube in the block to the end of the original dipstick, is the critical measurement of course, Cheers Charlie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 Well done, really good progress, and some colder mornings coming so you can tune warmup The MAT sensor should be able to sit just about anywhere in orientation, it is just a bead thermistor, normally. Only reason I can think Niuge would have said put it at the top is because of heat soak, but then a continuous stream of cool air via an air filter will sort that pretty quickly! BTW, do you actually own a Quattro? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quattro Posted October 3, 2016 Author Share Posted October 3, 2016 17 minutes ago, Bowie69 said: BTW, do you actually own a Quattro? ermm.... well....... when I first started on forums, I owned an A4 quattro with the 2.8L V6 petrol engine, so not really a quattro as people think, i.e. the original rally monster. I have since then, owned a 2.4 A6 quattro (don't buy one of these ), a 2.7L Twin turbo A6 quattro(scary), and my current daily driver, a 3.0TDi A6 quattro avant which is frankly Awesome. Mines the one on the left: - So, in answer to your question, yes, and no, but I might get one yet PS, quattro doesn't have a capital letter for some reason ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 So true One of my other cars is a '91 Coupe Quattro 20V (so no turbo unfortunately, but still plenty quick enough really), my daily driver actually, and a bit of a rolling restoration, nearly done 200K now, and owned since 2000 Think the small 'q' is just a German's idea of styling, it is just Italian for 'four' after al! Sorry for the OT... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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