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Expert help Required


skirky dave
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Hi everyone, i'm new here today.

My landy is a 1961 swb series 2A with a sherpa 2.5 15J engine which i've had for 27 years.

Started with a 2 1/4 diesel then a rover v8 now with said Sherpa.

Yesterday my timing belt snapped AGAIN,.. 3rd time !!!. and getting bored with dealing with it every 12-18 months or so.

It's only done 8000 since it snapped last time.

Anyway..about 18 months ago i bought a 19J turbo engine without the turbo for £25. This was following an idea by an elderly land rover enthusiast who said..( if you use the front off the 19J and get shut of the Sherpa front timing arrangement you should never have the same problems and also the timing case will be waterproof ).

So..can anyone tell me if they have done this conversion and if so,, could you PLEASE tell me which part numbers i need to complete the job. Seals , Gaskets etc etc.

The whole idea scares me to death as i have never done this before.

I know i might have to change/move, the engine mounting (pain) but if so then......

The other thing is this...someone said the fuel pumps were different in that the Sherpa was calibrated differently to the TD fuel pump.

But how???. Although i do have both fuel pumps and injectors.

A 200TDI is a no no, as 2 of my mates have destroyed their gearboxes. They were never designed to handle the torque and appart from which ...no £ in the back pocket.

If anyone can help me, i would be very greatful.

Cheers

Dave.

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Hi eightpot. MMM sorry if this seems a little confusing, i didn't make it clear. The 19J IS A TOTAL WRITE OFF. The pistons are all cracked,there's a problem with the crankshaft etc etc. The only reason i've got it is to use the front timing cover/back plate to convert the sherpa so i never have the fear of the timing belt snapping after a few thousand miles.

Will the Sherpa's fuel pump fit in place of the 19J fuel pump?.

Cheers Mate.

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I previously stated in my original post that the TD 19J engine was beyond hope and apart from the front ( which i need ) is only good for scrap. Unfortunately my Original post didn't appear and the First post regarding my problems omitted all of this so...my appologies for the confusion to anyone else trying to make sense of my post.

I have to wait until 3 more posts have been approved from a moderator before i can answer any replies.

Ho hum.

Dave.

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I've had both the sherpa and 12j engines in my old s3 and there was no noticeable difference in engine power so I don't think there's any difference in the pumps. I've done the conversion but it was many years ago. You will need the complete timing chest including the pulleys etc. Injector pumps are fitted the same, so no issues there, but the injector pump off the td engine will have a boost diaphragm, which will be no good unless you are fitting the turbo as well. The injector pump is fitted lower on the Sherpa so the injector pipes will be too long with the pump in the new position - just use the 12j ones and they will be a direct fit. If I remember correctly - you will also need the 12j water pump and thermostat housing. There may be an issue with alternator mounting as well but I don't remember. There's no need to fabricate anything I think - it's just using parts that you already have. Off the top of my head the gaskets and seals you will need are crankshaft front oil seal, timing cover oil seal, timing rear case to engine block gasket, timing cover gasket, and injector pump gasket. And of course a timing belt kit (Dayco timing belt). Do the job very carefully, clean all parts that you are going to use again. Don't buy anything at all from Britpart or you may well be doing it all over again.

Les

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Most of it is a direct swap.

As Les said, the 19J pump has a boost diaphragm. You could use that pump and just plug the boost pipe port, or use the 15J pump. So, you just need to fit the timing case and everything inside and in front of it to the 15J (pulleys and alternator mount), and use the 19J injector pipes. You will be able to buy a 12/19J timing belt kit and timing gasket/seal kit from any LR specialist (I always recommend Dunsfold LR if you don't have a favoured local)

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First of all, please accept my apologies for not responding. I have been away for a long weekend with the other half before a can get cracked into this job.

Les and Snagger...Many many thanks for your input ( priceless). Thank you.

I do have to admit, that, it is i bit of a daunting job when youv'e never attempted anything like it before but hey ho i'll give it a go.

Nothing ventured as they say.

I suppose my first job is to get the engine number off the 19J to determine the year of the engine so i can get hold of the relevant parts.

I don't want to order the parts only to find there are two or three different tensioners for example or are all the parts for the 19J the same ???.

All the main parts from the other engine,..i already have but if i can get away with using the 15J Sherpa fuel pump, then great.

This job MIGHT, OR SHOULD I SAY ( might )... in small letters, be easier than first thought and i may be over thinking it

.

Les and Snagger

If anything else comes to mind, PLEASE let me know, as all help and advice IS most welcome and very much appreciated.

Cheers guys

Dave.

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Les and Snagger or anyone else that might be able to shine a light on this year engine.

The engine number is...19J 27068C. I don't know of anyone to ask regarding the year of this engine or from which years this engine number corresponds to i.e 1996 - 1999 etc. Just to make sure i order the correct corresponding seals / gaskets etc or maybe there all the same for this 19J engine ????.

Once again, Cheers guys

Dave.

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The block of the 15 and 19J will be similar enough for you to transfer the studs and other fixings. There is only one timing belt kit that I'm aware of, and it'll fit both 12 and 19J as their timing systems are identical.

I don't know anything about the 15J injection pump, so can't offer an opinion on whether it'll fit the 19J timing case, sprocket or injector pipes.

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Cheers for that Snagger. I've been having a look everywhere and i'm of the same opinion.

As for the injection pump query...... i'm hoping Les might know as i've found quite a few of his topics on the net over the last couple of days, and very impressive.

I suppose my next question is....if i keep the Sherpa pump and fit the 19J FRONT, should i time the pump to the ( F ) mark or the ( DOT ).

I know the F is for the FREIGHT and the DOT for Land Rover but i thought i may as well ask first.

Any Ideas ???.

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Hi Les,

Many thanks for your help mate,

Just to let you know Les, the REST of the Sherpa engine shall be used as it's the same as the land rover as you are aware BUT i'm only using the front timing chest off the 19J. The rest of the 19J is a TOTAL write off !!!. In any case, the engine didn't come with the Turbo.

Les, do you know if the 19J diesel injectors are the same as the one's in the Sherpa or are they different because of the turbo.

If there's no difference in them , then, that gives me a spare set to play with in the future, just in case one goes down.

Same applies to the glow plugs.

Thanks again for the heads up on the pump timing issue.

Cheers

Dave.

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The sherpa engine is mostly the 2.5 N/A engine as fitted in 90 & 110 vehicles. The only difference is what would be regarded as outside of the base engine. I would therefore imagine that the injectors are the same for both the 15 and 19J engines.

Fitting a turbo to the Basic 2.5 N/A engine was a bodge as all L/R did was try and increase output by simply bolting a turbo to an engine that wasn't really designed for it. This caused the common problem of pistons cracking. As far as I can figure - the the 19J pump was or might be different from the N/A engine in as much as the boost diaphragms effect ( vaccuum pressure operated the diaphragm, which then increased fuelling). You could fit the td pump and as there's no turbo, then the pump will just operate as it would on an N/A engine. The boost diaphragm had it's own problems as it would split and then pump fuel into the turbo boost pipe and then cause pressure in the fuel tank. This was commonly detected by the fuel tank cap blowing when you removed it at the petrol station.

In summary - as far I'm concerned, there' no difference between the 2.5 N/A engine and the 2.5 T/D engines other than the fitting of a turbo and the boost diaphragm ( and the questionable effect it has on the engine), and then the Sherpa (15J engine) other than the position of the injector pump ( which I think is just the same as the 2.5 N/A engine), the timing chest and a few other minor differences.

Just to add - all 3 engines have mechanical injectors which are effectively told what to do by the pump. I would therefore say that all 3 have the same injectors.

Les

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I agree with Les - the injectors will be the same. If the 15J pumps fits, use it; you know it works. If it doesn't, use the 19J pump and blank off the boost pipe port - it'll work like the 12 and 15J pumps without boost, the only snag being you don't know if it's in good condition.

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Les and Snagger,

Once again, cheers for the info, Always Appreciated.... just hope this Sherpa injector pump fits its new housing!!.

The reason i asked about the injectors was mainly out of concern, that, the TD Fuel Pump might use a little more pressure with the 19J being a Turbo engine but it would seem that isn't the case. So.....would i be correct in saying that the Diesel injectors would be ok to stick on my spares shelf in case one of mine goes down??.

If so, i could always get them refurbished for that very occasion, TOUCH WOOD it doesn't.

In the process of cleaning / degreasing the 19J timing chest. ( WHAT A MESS ).

Cheers again guys

Dave.

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The amount of fuel injected varies with throttle position and rpm, so the injectors don't always fire the same amount anyway. But the 12 and 19J share the same injectors and the same head, and I doubt the 15J is any different.

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Many thanks for the input on that Snagger. That puts my mind at rest.

My knowledge regarding the in's and out's of injectors, turbo's, and dump valves, is a little below zilch!!.

I have heard horror stories of turbo's being able to consume the contents of the oil sump resulting in the need for the fire brigade.

I have to admit, i'm a little surprised at the amount of dust, muck and black grease residue behind the 19J TIMING BELT COVER. There's a lot of it to clean up.

There is as much behind that, as there is behind the Sherpa's Tin Plate cover and that's not waterproof at all. Strange.

Cheers mate

Dave.

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Hi Pete,

I am in the process of taking a few shots as i go along as a sort of reference,if you like.

I am getting quite a lot of much needed help and advice with this project which is VERY much appreciated .

If i can find out HOW to add pictures from my phone to this forum,..i shall. Looks like i need to pick my sons brains.

Computers is soooooo NOT my thing.

Having to go from this, apply to that, make file size smaller,attach to this then that and finally press enter. The boys do it so easy but i find it frustrating to say the least!

But i shall give it a go. Afterall,..there might be other interested people who wish to do the same conversion. The Sherpa's 2 main problems are the TIN FOIL timing cover and the stupid IDLER which almost impossible to get hold of.

Cheers

Dave..

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Could the idler or a better one be found amongst the Austin/Rover stables variety of (Perkins)? diesel engines. Just wondering as they seem to reuse lots of parts then out of the blue use something which costs a fortune and fits nothing else. ^_^

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Hi Pete,

NO idea mate and to be honest, getting hold of those parts i would think are (1) becoming rarer by the day or (b) coming in at a premium price.

So in reality i guess it's easier (kind of) to do the job this way. A t least i can still get parts for the 12J.

Cheers for the thought though.

Dave.

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Les /Snagger or anyone who may be able to help with these 2 problems..

How do i remove the camshaft sprocket nut holding the sprocket in place....it just spins round and i need to remove it in order to remove the chest.

The fuel pump is ALMOST ready to come of except that..(2) The bracket that's getting in the way is fitted on the engine with 3 ALLEN KEYS. The said bracket is UNDER the brake servo unit,..fitted to the engine, and this bracket comes off the underside of pump and sits directly behind the fuel pump with a 3 inch bolt going through the bracket and onto the fuel pump helping to keep the fuel pump in place along with the 3 pump nuts , in total 4 fixings.

Hope i've described this ok.

Is there anything under this brake vacuume pump that could shoot up and hit me in the face such as a spring or something like that.

Does the pump just pull up and off then sit back down when refitting the pump.

These two problems are getting in the way at the moment, ROYAL PAIN.

Cheers guys

Dave.

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