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Soundproofing engine components?


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I think the FIP on my 200tdi makes a tappety sounding ticking noise. I;ve posted about it before, but not got around to further investigation. I need the car every day at the moment, so I cant afford downtime to send it off and get it reconditioned and I'm not even sure if the noise is actually normal, so reconditioning it might not do a thing! It runs very well and doesn't seem to have any issues.

So, I have been wondering if I could soundproof it? What are your thoughts on material to use and how to use it? Could I make something that I could use to wrap it being careful not to interfere with the throttle mechanism? If so what material? Would i be better sticking something to it?

Finally, how much does the FIP rely on being to radiate heat? Will wrapping it/covering it cause it to run too hot and lead to other problems?

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The pump shouldn't be loud enough to require sound proofing, and hiding symptoms of a problem is a bad philosophy.  If the pump is that noisy, it needs overhaul or replacement, and while the cost may be unappealing, being stranded in the middle of nowhere on a rotten mid-winter night should be less appealing.  

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10 minutes ago, Snagger said:

The pump shouldn't be loud enough to require sound proofing, and hiding symptoms of a problem is a bad philosophy.  If the pump is that noisy, it needs overhaul or replacement, and while the cost may be unappealing, being stranded in the middle of nowhere on a rotten mid-winter night should be less appealing.  

Its not a cost issue. Its the fact i cant have the vehicle off the road for at least the next 2-3 months. We sold the spare car (perhaps stupidly) and my other half is now living and working 5 hours away so this is my sole vehicle. I do hear what you are saying about it failing, but its been like this for four years possibly and no-one has been able to tell me whether the noise is normal - so there is a chance that reconning it wont do a thing about it. Not everyone seems able to hear it, so i don't know if it is a certain pitch that annoys me, but the noise is getting on my nerves now.

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My connection only lets me play a couple of seconds at a time, so I couldn't hear the noise well.  It sounded to me a bit like someone flicking a piece of paper with their fingernail.    Is that a fair description?  If so, I'd suspect a head gasket leak to the outside of the block/head interface. That would fit with the conditions under which it is most noticeable - over-run at high rpm (minimal engine combustion noise but high compression, and at high throttle settings with strong combustion pressure).  I had that on a 300Tdi, and it isn't uncommon on both Tdi types, especially with the composite type head gaskets (the black ones with red rings).  It almost always happens on the back face from cylinder 4.  Try feeling for a puffing there at idle.

If that is the cause, then I hope you catch it before you get serious gas erosion of the soft alloy of the head.

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I would have thought that the fuel flowing through the pump will take all the excess heat away? Might be a mad idea, but I'm sure you would be able to use some garden wire to hold some loft insulation round it while you take it on a quick drive round the block to see if it has made a difference?

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Thanks Nick, I suppose you could describe the sound like that.

I've had a really good feel around the engine for head gasket issues like you describe, but cant find anything out of the ordinary. I even tried soapy water everywhere when the engine was cold, but no bubbles to be seen. Would a HG issue like that cause noticeable performance issues? There are none really - it goes really well.

The noise is most noticeable when you put a small amount of pressure on the accelerator pedal whilst coasting in gear but not accelerating (hence down the hill in that video through the speed camera box). Its there all the time, but when accelerating properly, the engine speed drowns it out.

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1 hour ago, timc1967 said:

do you have any underbonnet sound deadening already?

Yep - i have a proper bonnet insulation system and the bulkhead is all soundproofed with what i think is a Dynamat type system - i think this is factory fitted. I also have a Wright offroad matting system in the cab so it is fairly quiet as things go.

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1 hour ago, monkie said:

Can you put a video or sound clip up of the noise Richard? In terms of heat, I would imagine that the fuel would carry any excess heat out of the pump?

These posts are appearing in a weird order! Im im sure your reply wasn't there earlier Phil. 

Video in the link posted above. 

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23 minutes ago, vulcan bomber said:

I have a collection of bust injector pumps here if you want a unit to send in for recon.

Now that could work!

The other thing stopping me was that I'm not 100% certain it is the pump, but it wouldn't hurt to have a reconditioned one fitted. 

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29 minutes ago, reb78 said:

These posts are appearing in a weird order! Im im sure your reply wasn't there earlier Phil. 

Video in the link posted above. 

Yeah sorry about that. I typed it before you had put that link up, there was a delay. Its certainly a strange noise on that clip. Have you ran then engine for a short while with the belts off to rule out the ancillary stuff driven off the belts, I thought about that when someone on the other thread mentioned the viscous fan.

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Exactly the same as mine REb.

Had it on the 300 Disco and now this 300 Def.  It's a dry continuous 'whirble' following the increase in revs.  If you were driving the truck for the first time you wouldn't notice it but it get more and more noticable and one relaxes into the driving for that truck - right?

It's most noticeable at the first part of the acceleration like mine I'd guess.

Blasted annoying too but all appears to be normal.

Don't know what it actually is but It's probably down to high mileage wear somewhere so a refurb, if you can afford it, would be a good start.

I too have been thinking of a sound absorbing bonnet of sorts (and for my noisy induction Disco air box) but that's another matter - especially nothing is really wrong!

 

 

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On a more 'diagnostic' approach is it possible for you to put a sound recorder under the bonnet maybe cable-tied to a stick somewhere between the FIP and engine and record it under way. Then move the recorder closer to the engine, then closer to FIP and see what the volume does in either direction and then possibly be able to determine from whence the sound emanates? (would need the record level to be off its auto record mode and be set on manual recording levels so the recorder doesn't boost the record level.)

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15 hours ago, reb78 said:

Thanks Nick, I suppose you could describe the sound like that.

I've had a really good feel around the engine for head gasket issues like you describe, but cant find anything out of the ordinary. I even tried soapy water everywhere when the engine was cold, but no bubbles to be seen. Would a HG issue like that cause noticeable performance issues? There are none really - it goes really well.

The noise is most noticeable when you put a small amount of pressure on the accelerator pedal whilst coasting in gear but not accelerating (hence down the hill in that video through the speed camera box). Its there all the time, but when accelerating properly, the engine speed drowns it out.

It didn't affect performance on my 300 when it happened, and didn't cause oil or water loss.  It merely made the flicking noise, particularly on the over-run or when working hard at high throttle settings, like accelerating.  Mine could be felt at idle, but I did initially have doubts as to whether it was eddy currents from the fan - it's not a gale that you're looking for, and mine failed over a 1" section very rapidly, so was probably quite a severe failure of that nature.  Yours might be smaller and harder to detect, if it is the same type of failure.

It's worth looking at your manifold gasket and turbo gasket for the same thing.  Any failure point is likely to have soot marks so should be easier to spot.

I do have a noisier pump on my 200 than 300, even though it was rebuilt.  It sounds like metallic ringing rather than that dead papery sound.  I think it was because I had it set up for vegoil use and when running on diesel, the fuel heat exchanger reduces the viscosity a bit more than the vegoil.

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