reb78 Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 1 minute ago, =jon= said: Speaking of warranties, does anyone have any recommendations? One option was to get a private sale and stick a decent warranty on it to negate any big bills.. Had a look at one of the companies (the one with quentin wilson, can't remember the name) and for a 'cover everything' warranty you'd be looking at a grand a year... I think that price would be pretty standard across the board. We just bought a three year old BMW 1 series from BMW - so for 12 months its covered in the warranty that was included in the purchase, but I asked how much it would likely be to extend it following the end of that period and I think I was told in the region of £800! Its still just an engine/gearbox and brakes etc underneath, and the engine bay is relatively accessible, so I wont be extending the warranty at that price but will attempt most issues myself! If i save £800 over a couple of years, then i have my own warranty fund! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
=jon= Posted November 17, 2016 Author Share Posted November 17, 2016 I've been doing a fair bit of reading up on the FFRR forum (and I notice you've been asking some questions too reb78!) - it seems the 3.6 TDV8s suffer with turbo issues due to knackered EGR valves - if you ignore the warnings that come up when the valve starts to fail then bad things happen to the turbo, potentially with it failing and being ingested by the engine... I'd prob invest in some sort of diag tool to keep an eye on the valve operation, or possibly just change them as a matter of preventive maintenance if I couldn't prove they hadn't been done already - I think Ed changed his and it took a few evenings, lots to take apart but not too fiddly. It's also possible to 'map them out' of operation by someone like Alive Tuning.. Other things like air compressors seem to be available aftermarket OK, air bags might be a concern but even they aren't crazily expensive compared to other cars... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 Aftermarket warranties I'd expect to be worth less than the paper they're written on, or prohibitively expensive, or both. If you can't afford to take the hit of a big repair bill you're probably best not buying the car. I have an instant online savings account that I DD some money into every month for vehicle upkeep, enough that over 12 months it covers tax, MOT, insurance, servicing, plus a bit of surplus for unexpected bills etc. that way it's just sitting in my own account waiting to be used or taken back, rather than disappearing into the pockets of a warranty company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwakers Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 whereas i just run cars that dont have stupid repair bills for simple problems. kia sorento xse 2006. full leather everything, all the toys you'd expect from a modern 4x4 and a full top end rebuild of the engine when i bought it with snapped cam chains cost me 250 and i did it in a field! and that includes a full service whilst i was at it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Poore Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 When I bought mine it was a private sale but had a years warranty from that company (Warranty Wise?). They covered the fuel pump (lift) but for that price I'd put the money aside. It'll likely take you a while to sort out niggles but once you've sorted those then (touch) wood they tend to be pretty reliable. So keep a slush fund but just keep an eye on things. If you're at all DIY focused then you can save a great deal by doing services etc yourself. Gearbox flush for example is about £100 for the parts and oil but you're looking at at least treble that for someone else to do it. There are a few tricks to learn but it's not bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 2 hours ago, FridgeFreezer said: If you can't afford to take the hit of a big repair bill you're probably best not buying the car. This. To answer your original question: neither of the cars you mentioned. I suppose if you like to tinker with it, and follow the forums, you can maintain it yourself for not a lot. But I personally don't drive a landy as a daily, because I can see it ending up very expensive if you need the car every day. If you want it reliable, I would buy a 1 year old car at auction. I did this , just not a landy... Daan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happyoldgit Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 I very much doubt I would buy a late model green oval product to run as a daily and certainly not without warranty cover. All, repeat all the Land Rovers I've had from new have had to go back for warranty work for one reason or another as have all the late approved vehicles too. There's a difference between running a second vehicle as a hobby and tinkering with it in your spare time but it's a chore to have to do this when you need it for getting about. Anyway, I may have said all this before... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrismountains Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 Just to add some context around the Subaru Outback alternative...the modern Boxer diesels are notorious for breaking their timing chains and crank shafts. My colleague's Outback has just had catastrophic engine failure at 80k miles. One Subaru engine re-builder said that he had done well to get to that mileage. I'm beginning to think that there is no such thing as bullet proof modern motoring? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Poore Posted November 20, 2016 Share Posted November 20, 2016 On 17/11/2016 at 9:06 PM, Happyoldgit said: I very much doubt I would buy a late model green oval product to run as a daily and certainly not without warranty cover. All, repeat all the Land Rovers I've had from new have had to go back for warranty work for one reason or another as have all the late approved vehicles too. There's a difference between running a second vehicle as a hobby and tinkering with it in your spare time but it's a chore to have to do this when you need it for getting about. Anyway, I may have said all this before... I use mine as a daily driver, particularly in the winter as the heated windscreens, mirrors, seats and steering wheel make it much more tempting than a frozen 110. I would say though, I found it quite trying running it as an only vehicle until I got the 110 back. Quite happy to fix things myself but when you rely on it as your only vehicle it is a bit of a pain. Currently coming up to 153k miles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
=jon= Posted November 20, 2016 Author Share Posted November 20, 2016 20 hours ago, Chrismountains said: Just to add some context around the Subaru Outback alternative...the modern Boxer diesels are notorious for breaking their timing chains and crank shafts. My colleague's Outback has just had catastrophic engine failure at 80k miles. One Subaru engine re-builder said that he had done well to get to that mileage. I'm beginning to think that there is no such thing as bullet proof modern motoring? If I was to get one, it would be the 3ltr petrol - the flat 6's are known to be pretty tough engines... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
=jon= Posted November 20, 2016 Author Share Posted November 20, 2016 2 hours ago, Ed Poore said: I would say though, I found it quite trying running it as an only vehicle until I got the 110 back. Quite happy to fix things myself but when you rely on it as your only vehicle it is a bit of a pain. Currently coming up to 153k miles. In what way is it trying? I thought that other than the bits you had listed above (EGRs etc) it's been pretty good? I'm still undecided as to what to do. I'm wondering if there will be a big knee jerk reaction to diesels coming soon - with the whole emissions cheating, London failing the pollution regulations, Bristol banning diesel taxis etc I have a feeling there will be a tax hike for diesels coming up in the next budget... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Poore Posted November 20, 2016 Share Posted November 20, 2016 6 minutes ago, =jon= said: In what way is it trying? I thought that other than the bits you had listed above (EGRs etc) it's been pretty good? I'm still undecided as to what to do. I'm wondering if there will be a big knee jerk reaction to diesels coming soon - with the whole emissions cheating, London failing the pollution regulations, Bristol banning diesel taxis etc I have a feeling there will be a tax hike for diesels coming up in the next budget... Aside from the EGRs all the issues happened when a friend was using my 110 in Wales so the FF was my only vehicle. Luckily I only work 7 miles from home so cycling was an option but the alternator took something like 5 days working for a couple of hours in the evening. Having the 110 back means that whilst I tinker with one I can use the other. Cycling back from work with the alternator (where it was delivered) over the rear wheel was interesting to say the least. Plus I don't have a garage so everything's either done on the front lawn or side of the quiet street I live on - regardless of weather usually. I remember finishing the gearbox oil change with water running down my back from the thunderstorm I was finishing it in... Basically I miss the days of having a 20x8m "workshop" to use :-( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
=jon= Posted November 20, 2016 Author Share Posted November 20, 2016 OK, so more bad timing than loads of little issues happening every week or so then! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L19MUD Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 I agree with a couple of the comments above - I do exactly what Fridge does and put an amount in another account to cover all the expected running costs plus a slush fund. It is never the same vehicle that ends up using that slush fund, my 200tdi 90 (water pump failure subsequent overheat and cracked head), TDv8 Range Rover (2 EGR's), or the Iveco (a constant thorn in my side and too much to list), last culprit was the ten year old BMW 120d which needed glow plugs, glow plug relay and an ABS module) Changing the EGRs as a preventative measure would be worth the £400 outlay and is an easy 2-3 hours job Getting a diagnostic tool also well worth doing. In all honesty any car you buy under 10 years old needs diagnostic to allow you trace the fault without relying on a google search and throwing parts at it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Poore Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 20 hours ago, =jon= said: OK, so more bad timing than loads of little issues happening every week or so then! More spread over months rather than weeks but none-the-less it felt like they we never ending. Since then though it's been pretty bombproof (desperately searching for some wood in an electronics lab here...). It's helped that I don't take it on adventurous laning trips anymore, I think I'm probably one of the few people that's taken an L322 down Strata Florida and Soar y Mynedd. The single biggest problem with the lanes is they're typically Defender width and the Range Rover, well, isn't. So given the low profile tyres (I'm running pretty much the smallest wheels I can at 19") you're always scrubbing the sidewalls which combined with no-one off-roads them means that there are almost no reinforced sidewall tyres in a suitable size and therefore you usually end up puncturing at least one. My most spectacular was actually hearing one go bang over the radio with and with all windows shut. Still £3k in tyres in ~2 years isn't bad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
=jon= Posted November 21, 2016 Author Share Posted November 21, 2016 I had a chat to the owner of the garage when I was taking the current Subaru in for test today. He's got a BMW engined FFRR on LPG. He said that he loves it, has had it for 12 years and would buy another one in a flash (and is currently looking for an L405), but they can be frustrating. He's had issues with the cooling system, head gaskets, air sus, compressor, but said if you are half handy and have the diagnostic tool they aren't that bad. It seems a lot of his issues were fixed in the 2006 facelift and/or with the introduction of the new engines... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 On 11/17/2016 at 4:32 PM, =jon= said: I've been doing a fair bit of reading up on the FFRR forum (and I notice you've been asking some questions too reb78!) - it seems the 3.6 TDV8s suffer with turbo issues due to knackered EGR valves - if you ignore the warnings that come up when the valve starts to fail then bad things happen to the turbo, potentially with it failing and being ingested by the engine... I'd prob invest in some sort of diag tool to keep an eye on the valve operation, or possibly just change them as a matter of preventive maintenance if I couldn't prove they hadn't been done already - I think Ed changed his and it took a few evenings, lots to take apart but not too fiddly. It's also possible to 'map them out' of operation by someone like Alive Tuning.. Other things like air compressors seem to be available aftermarket OK, air bags might be a concern but even they aren't crazily expensive compared to other cars... I've been on there a while. My problem is I dither around when I see something suitable and it goes! When I started looking, I asked a lot of questions about the gearboxes on the TD6 and BMW V8, but so much time has gone by since I started looking that the TDV8s have come down to a point that I could potentially afford one of them so the box becomes less of a problem! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Poore Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 I think the main issue with L322s has been their price point. But they're now getting to the point that people like those on this forum will start buying them and tinkering with them. When I bought mine there were a handful of people that I was aware of that off roaded them actively. Pete Haylands is by far and away the most extreme. If I had a garage or some shelter for it then I'd tinker some more but alas time and space is currently against me. They're now coming down in price so the more DIY rather than polishing crowd are getting their hands on them, consequently the knowledge is going up. There is also the benefit for a small fee you can gain access to all of JLRs manuals for it. I think it was something like £22 for 24h. Cue a bored Christmas and a little script and voila I had a copy of the official manuals, which reminds me I must remember where they ended up... I think theres a lot of potential in them, Pete's highlights some of that. With regards to issues being fixed in the facelift I think that's true, hence why I went for a TDV8. I was actually looking at Disco 4s having driven one and heard the horror stories about the D3. Then thought, what about FFs and voila at the time about 10k cheaper albeit for an older car. Given the mileage I was doing I decided it should be a diesel and again because of gearbox issues went for the TDV8 which seems to have cured most of them. There are still issues but most are well documented and you have to bear in mind only problems get reported and there were a LOT of TDV8s made. So the "common" turbo issues aren't actually that common in reality. They do prefer preventative maintenance though. The IID Tool is almost more important than a set of sockets and if you buy one you should definitely get one, or have a mate nearby with one (you can activate them on multiple vehicles for a small fee). If you want convincing if you ever head up Surrey way then give me a shout and you can have a jump in mine. I'm fact I'm heading west to Monmouth this Sunday coming, mind you haven't decided on 110 or FF yet... With the FF seats in the 110 it's not quite as quiet as the FF but as they're old BMW era seats they are fractionally more comfortable! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
=jon= Posted November 22, 2016 Author Share Posted November 22, 2016 (edited) 13 hours ago, Ed Poore said: If you want convincing if you ever head up Surrey way then give me a shout and you can have a jump in mine. I'm fact I'm heading west to Monmouth this Sunday coming, mind you haven't decided on 110 or FF yet... With the FF seats in the 110 it's not quite as quiet as the FF but as they're old BMW era seats they are fractionally more comfortable! Let me know which you decide to take - if you are in the FF and we are about (not sure what we are doing this Sunday yet), we are a few miles off M4 J17 and a ride in one would be much appreciated! Edited November 22, 2016 by =jon= Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GW8IZR Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 1 hour ago, =jon= said: and a ride in one would be much appreciated! You know that is the end of it don't you? Once you have ridden in it the heart takes over and its only a matter of time :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
=jon= Posted November 22, 2016 Author Share Posted November 22, 2016 1 minute ago, GW8IZR said: You know that is the end of it don't you? Once you have ridden in it the heart takes over and its only a matter of time :-) It's probably the missus choice more than mine - and she might hate it (even though it's her idea!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GW8IZR Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 Well frtom my very limited experience they are hard to hate .. anyway hope it works out :-) <edit> My apologies, I thought it was the RR you were testing. My wife hasn't been keen on any of the 110/90 that I've run here over the years although she doesn't mind the current 90 with good standard seat, raising them up and moving them back made it more pleasant for both of us, she is quite small and I'm fairly tall so position seems to help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Poore Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 Well if I can sort out the seat issue... I'll bring it. On the drive down from Scottie Land I forgot that there was a coolbox behind my seat and tried to move it back. Blew a fuse which I've replaced but on Saturday when I took it out the motors are only turning one way. I've just got to find the time to have an investigation into it - haven't even checked the fuses yet. My sister went to take it this morning and with her key it moved the seat forwards but not down. Normally I can't get in it if she's been driving it but she can't even get in it now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
=jon= Posted November 22, 2016 Author Share Posted November 22, 2016 44 minutes ago, GW8IZR said: <edit> My apologies, I thought it was the RR you were testing. It would be the RR, yep... We already have a 110, and she likes that - she finds the seat pretty comfy, and loves the fact that she can peer over peoples fences / hedges / walls etc and see stuff she can't normally. Her only niggles are that she often gets dripped on when it's cold / wet (typical LR condensation on the sunroof / above the headlining / general leakiness), and that the centre cubby is a bit high for her to put her arm on... She's not driven the 110 that much, but when I had the 90 she drove it to work every day for a couple of weeks when her car was broken... 25 minutes ago, Ed Poore said: Well if I can sort out the seat issue... I'll bring it. On the drive down from Scottie Land I forgot that there was a coolbox behind my seat and tried to move it back. Blew a fuse which I've replaced but on Saturday when I took it out the motors are only turning one way. I've just got to find the time to have an investigation into it - haven't even checked the fuses yet. My sister went to take it this morning and with her key it moved the seat forwards but not down. Normally I can't get in it if she's been driving it but she can't even get in it now! Oops! Hope it's nothing serious! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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