[300TDI vs TD5 as a first car]

12 hours ago, Snagger said:

I completely agreed with your earlier comments, but disagree with this one.  This is a prospective buyer of a first car, so unlikely someone with the skills, time, tooling and capacity yet for a long list of work.  It’s substantially easier for us with years of tinkering and fairly full toolboxes, but not for those new to vehicle maintenance.  Within a reasonable selection of spec (ie wheel base and body type), I still recommend condition over detailed specification.  I also echo the importance of it being original spec to avoid complications with insurance and maintenance.

Hi, op here, I am pretty mechanically competent and do have access to any tools i may need through family (unless theres lots of defender specific tools?) but you are quite right that I’d rather not have a long list of repairs.

Theres been a few replies about chassis and body condition and I can definitely manage mechanical work but I am adamant about not doing any welding - my limited experience + my cheap welder leads to what i like to call ‘welds with integrated pressure release orifices’ (aka full of porosity). 

Thats a good point about insurance, in doing some online quotes the TDI seems to be much more expensive than the TD5 but ive read on some other forums that you really have to call around to get an accurate defender quote since the quick online sites often muddle models. Also theres the whole van/car thing which is also confusing the insurance matter too. 

Ive got until summer so have time to work it all out but theres definitely alot of contrasting info out there

 

[300TDI vs TD5 as a first car]

1 hour ago, Anderzander said:

Hello and welcome ..

I think there is a big preference element here - and some of your preference will be driven by things we don’t know - like how you are going to use it etc …

So I think I would probably suggest two things:

The first is, if you can, drive a few of both of them.  The 300 is older - it’s noisier and slower - but it’s simpler and more basic too. My own experience is that the 300’s were a bit better made.. but the later Td5’s had nicer dashboards and instruments etc.  There are more things we could compare and contrast - but I do think they are not just binary / better. It’s more about what do you like and what do you want from the vehicles - so try and drive some. 

Personally … I love the Td5.

The second thing I’d suggest is that condition is much more important than if it’s a 300 or Td5. A really good 300 will be better in almost every way than a dog rough, mistreated, Td5 …. and thus make a better purchase.

A car that’s been looked after, is honest, straight, good condition, rot free, and mechanically sound is the primary basis for your choice. 

So I would suggest you have a clear budget - and just buy the best Defender you can. 

Thank you for the reply, like I have said in response to another reply I will try and test drive a few. In terms of how I am going to use it, the majority of the miles will be on the road to and from work but it will see offroad use most weekends (nothing silly mainly just plodding through heavily rutted woodland rides). I assumed for this offroad use where ground clearance is more of a factor than anything else that both would perform similarly. 

[300TDI vs TD5 as a first car]

24 minutes ago, Chicken Drumstick said:

While both vehicles look similar, there are some evolutionary differences.

Lets take a step back. The 200Tdi and 300Tdi are very similar, so if thinking of one, worth considering the other. The 300Tdi is IMO a more productionised (aka cheaper to build) version of the 200Tdi. As the Discovery and Defender had slightly different variants of the 200Tdi. The development of the 300Tdi let them have a single engine type for both vehicles. There where some advances with the 300Tdi being a serpentine belt. But power, torque, mpg and performance are pretty much the same (technically the Defender 200Tdi was less powerful than the Discovery variant, the 300Tdi has the same specs as the Disco 200Tdi engine). In practice however, I'd say a 300Tdi seems to be a little more refined than a 200, but it is very close. The only difference is the gearbox. The 200Tdi uses the older LT-77 5-speed, while the 300Tdi uses the R380 5-speed. In theory the R380 is stronger and reverse is in a different location. In practice there is very little real world difference. And I've driven more nicer shifting LT-77's than R380's.

Overall a 200 and 300 are both good vehicles. I had an L-Reg 300Tdi hard top as my first vehicle way back in 1997.

The Td5 brought in a number of changes. The Td5 engine is more powerful (although the standard tune for the Defender sucks, the engine goes a lot better in the Disco 2 in standard tune, but lets come back to this later). so the Td5 is quicker than a Tdi and has more tuning potential that the Tdi will never match. However by modern car standard both vehicles are pretty slow. The Td5 uses the same R380 5-speed as the 300Tdi. Other changes include things like a digitally controlled speedo instead of cable, optional traction control (for off road use to simulate limit slip differentials, it isn't a road bias stability system). And the likelihood to find factory air con and central. 

All in all the Td5 is dynamically a better vehicle. Faster, more refined and maybe better specced.

Downsides. Well as you've said, a Td5 might cost more to buy. And I think the thickness of some of the body panels was reduced. So a Td5 is more prone to panel damage and corrosion. Not a major thing, but something you might notice more so when looking at examples. Such as corrosion around the rivets on the side of the rear tub. Something you'd see less often on a Tdi model. The chassis also underwent some revisions on the Td5 with an ever so slightly larger tank at the rear of the vehicle instead of under the drivers seat. Think it is only a gallon or so bigger of usable capacity.

The Td5 engine is a lovely engine and arguably one of the best "Rover" designed engines. It has a few quirks, but overall is a solid and reliable engine. They also sound lovely with an aftermarket exhaust and can quite easily get to 150-190hp with a few mods (that you'd need to declare insurance wise). A Tdi is good for more like 120-135hp mod for mod. But there is a difference in how they drive. The Td5 has less low end and a strong mid and more revs. A very noticeable boost threshold and arguably more laggy feel to it. A Tdi pulls like a steam train off idle, but won't rev the same.

The Tdi's can sound nice too, more gruff than a Td5 and not as musical. Really the biggest difference is refinement or lack thereof with the Tdi's. Good stout engines, but a Td5 should be more refined at any and all speeds.

MPG wise. I'd say neither are likely to be great. It'll depend how you drive and where. I'd say a sensible expectation would be 25-28mpg with either engine. Although both can see over 30mpg and both capable of nearer the teens if modded. Overall I'd probably say the Tdi is the more frugal. But really too close to call it.

As for maintenance/complexity. They are pretty similar, the Td5 you might want a code reader, while the Tdi is purely spanners. But both are simple and easy to work on.

 

Not sure if that helped or not.

I'd say try and grab a drive with both engines and see what you think. Might be worth checking some insurance quotes too, as I don't know if they will vary between engines.

As a conclusion - A Tdi & Td5 are similar enough that either would be as good as the other for almost anything. So it may not matter which you went for. But both carry advantages and disadvantages depending on budget and what you want from the vehicle and what you plan to do with it in the future.

Thank you for all the information, I'll try and drive a few and see which I prefer. The only defender I have driven so far is a 2013 110 with the 2.2 puma which I imagine is a pretty different experience from both the Tdi and Td5. 

[300TDI vs TD5 as a first car]

Hello everyone, 

This summer I am looking at buying an old defender 90 as my first car, and the choice is between a 300Tdi and TD5.

Looking online, TD5s seem to be more expensive than 300Tdis, however have higher MPG and more power than the 300Tdi. 

My question is, is it worth spending extra to buy a TD5? Does anyone have any experience driving a 300 Tdi economically or can anyone who has owned both comment on the difference in running costs? Does the extra power of the TD5 really make a difference driving in the UK?

Also as it is my first car I am expecting insurance to be astronomical either way, but is there a difference in insurance cost between them? 

Any insight from owners would be appreciated as I am really unsure of what to go for.

Thanks in advance.