[Kinetic Recovery Bridles]

OK,

First attempt and seems to work really well.

I think the tidy knot at the end is the secret - will play some more.

Andy.

[Kinetic Recovery Bridles]

Hi S,

Fine by me!

How soon can one be aquired and from where?

Andy.

[Kinetic Recovery Bridles]

Hi Peter,

Real shame - don't have anything that short!!

Andy.

[Kinetic Recovery Bridles]

Hi All,

I have loads of Plasma offcuts and would be willing to have a play at making these.

Anyone got a sample to use as a pattern???

Andy.

[Winch Cable]

Hi,

For neatness & show, spool it on as you would wire, but if you want to use it without jamming as top layers are pulled through under strain, spool it on a layer then across the layer, another layer then across again.

This will reduce jamming.

Andy.

[Winch Cable]

Hi Jim,

You don't half ask some corkers!!!!

andy can you answer a couple of difficult questions objectively for me?

where are the differences found between plasma and other types of branded rope, be it dyneema, amsteel etc etc. it is in the type of material itself, it's construction, design? can you get a line made from the same material as plasma which wouldn't be as good? is there any reason why you can't just go down to a boat yard and buy a roll of 12mm cable?

OK, No easy answer with this one, but I will try.

Plasma dyneema & amsteel all come from similar base products, however, this is where things change. Plasma is produced from Honywell Spectra and then subjected to a unique process to give it additional strength, details are secret. The net result is a soft, pliable finished product with extraordinary capabilities.

There are several different grades of all the base products commercially available from any number of sources, all have quite different characteristics, breaking strains etc. So unless you know for certain the product you are buying and it comes with a certificate of conformance from the maker, be very cautious!

where does most of the strength from a rope come from- is it the inner or outer layer of rope, or both?

All of the 12 strand braided lines are hollow core ropes - if you push the rope from each end it will form a hollow centre, so, the strength all lives in the 12 strands - no core!

does rope benefit from an installation process- ie prestretching like with wire all that kind of stuff? someone a while ago recommended that unwinding rope completely and putting it on the other way round (so that hook end becomes winch end etc etc) could possibly be a benefit- is this true?

Two questions here - greedy sod!

1. Pre-stretching, this is only required when you plan to use the line at its maximum strain from the get go, normally within industrial applications or during a break test.

Even the 8mm Plasma exceeds most electric winches at 11,500 NBS.

2. Reversing a line will prolong the life of the line as it is usually the first 20/30 ft of line that suffers damage during the winching action. The last 20/30 ft of line, next to the drum, sees very little action and is normally completely undamaged, hence ideal for reversing the line to extend life.

what can physically weaken a rope- knots? passing over sharp corners? does the fluffing of rope actually signify a weakening of the rope or is it just unsightly?

Tree questions this time!

1. Knots will reduce the strength of a line by about 50/60% - ouch, don't go there!

2. Sharps cut lines, this includes rocks, banks, posts and any instance of severe rubbing actions.

3. Fluffing has no effect on the strength of the Plasma, in fact it can form limited protection.

is there an accepted method of working out the breaking strain of rope you should use for your vehicle? ie a 2000kg vehicle with a 12,000lb hydraulic winch may need a different strength than a 2000kg vehicle with a 8000ln electric winch. buying a cable that "may" be big enough, and then hanging off it down a sheer drop is a little risky IMO.

1. No, I usually ask a number of questions of a potential buyer as follows:-

What sort of winch do you have? - fittings, pulling power questions

What sort of vehicle do you have - potential shock load question.

What do you plan to use the vehicle for? - weekend warrior, green laning or lunatic winching challenge. This one will dictate the gauge recommended as I don't want to put anyones life or vehicle on the line!

You also raise a good point - Not one of the winch manufacturers would allow any of the recovery products to be used for lifting - it is a big No No as a whole new set of regulations would have to be applied.

So when does an incline/cliff face become a lift?

A question for you!!!

In summary. I will suggest the best line for the job if the potential buyer is honest with me - I will even refuse to supply if I think the incorrect gauge is being fitted to a winch.

Can I have a rest now!!!

Andy.

[Winch Cable]

Hi Jim,

Your questions were:-

1. What is plasma- is it a trademark or a generic name for cabling?

Yes - both!. Plasma is the reg trade mark of Puget Sound Ropes, USA.

Plasma has become the generic term despite there being a number of

synthetic suppliers out there.

2. What is the difference betweent the strand and the cable- ie i know that cables are made from different brand name fibres and it seems that often the way the cable is manufactured is as, if not more, important than the strand itself#

I generally call all steel - Cables and all synthetic lines - Strand.

The majority of synthetics used are of strand construction, making them easy to splice

and suitable for use without a swivle hook as they are not like spun steel.

3. What are the physical characterstics of plasma- do they all stretch the same amount? are they ALL suseceptible to heat, does sunlight ruin all of them.

Can't comment on any other makes, but Plasma will strech about 4% just prior to reaching

its max breaking strain.

4. People say wash your winchline- i am sure that this gets the winchline clean but can it have any negative effects? does anyone know for sure. is their a manufacturers approved care "label". i would assume that chandleries would be interested in it.

Rinse out all the carp in a bucket of water, keep doing it until no more sediment shows -

this is the stuff that damages the line.

None of the rope manufacturers expected this application with their products and as such

have no experience of cleaning it following heavy use.

5. Are there early warning signs of snapping that aren't common knowledge?

Simple answer - NO..

Technical answer - YES, The line will harden and, with severe use, damage the individual

strands, when one becomes obviously damaged, repair or replace the line!

6. Shelf life of a rope?

Good question - If you mean sitting on a shelf, it will outlast you if you keep it in a cool,

dry, dark place.

If you mean working life then the answer is very different - As with all service parts on a

vehicle ( yup winch line is a service part, just like brake pads, oil etc) and should be replaced

every 3 to 4 years with minimum usage. If you are a lunatic, winch challenge competitor at the

top of your game, I would replace it every 2 or 3 events. Sounds extreme but hey, it is not

even the price of a set of half shafts or other normally acceptable breakage parts.

7. are there any reasons why you would want to stay with wire? they resist abrasion much better and give more signs of impending breakage- anything else?

Nop! Most of the breakdown and utility companies, also the local authorities are moving

towards synthetic from the safety aspects.

8. are breaking strains of ropes as accurate as winch manufacturers load claims?

Some are and some are just plain daft! None take into account the use we make of them

in this particular application and also the shock loads they are subjected to.

All the lines are tested under lab conditions, with no allowance made for dodgy splicing,

or very contaminated lines.

I have UK test certificates supplied for lines I made up and I am happy with the results

for Plasma!

Ther are also additional issues concerning extreme angles exiting fairleads and snatchblock

diameters, this, I hasten to add is also an issue with steel even more.

Hope this helps,

Andy.

[Winch Cable]

Hi All,

Always makes for interesting reading when the subject of synthetic winch lines comes up.

Yes - I have a vested interest, so I declare it up front!

I am the managing Director of Ruftraks UK Limited, Exclusive Distributor and official importer of Plasma Winch Line for the UK and Europe.

Plasma is the registered Trade Mark of Puget Sound Ropes, 1012 Second Street, Anacortes, WA.US of A.

You will find all the information on this product within my website at www.ruftraks.co.uk

This also contains links to the manufacturers own site with all the technical data available.

I have been importing Plasma for 6 years and, during this time, have been involved in all the R & D for its use within the UK.

Boy, was that a steep learning curve.

If you have any specific questions you want answered please just ask.

Just remember, not all synthetic lines used in the UK are Plasma, but such is the price of success, that the generic term for synthetic has tended to be Plasma!

Andy Thomlinson.

[How many meters can I get on the drum?]

Hi,

You can get 150ft x 9.5mm (3/8") or 125ft x 11mm (7/16") on a 8274 standard drum no problem.

I have rock guard in stock and am happy to cut a length for anybody.

I usually suppy 2 mtrs with every line sold.

I agree, an in-line splice is usually only used to repair a broken line, not to extend one.

Much better to buy an extension line with finished soft eye ends in a length to suit you.

Regards,

Andy Thomlinson.

[Thumbs up for Ruftraks]

Yup,

There has been a lot of noise about Ali v Stainless.

My view.

The only reason Ali wears is that it is softer than the Synthetic line, in my opinion this is a good thing!

Dirty Rope wears Ali, Stainless wears dirty rope!

Cost of Stainless, twice the price of Ali.

We are only talking £45 tops, not even the cost of a tank of fuel - if you have to replace it every year or two, then so be it!

I sell both so you decide.

Regards,

Andy thomlinson.

[Thumbs up for Ruftraks]

Hi Lewis.

I don't like it in it's present condition.

Fine for wire as that will file it smooth with use.

You really need to polish it up on the inner edges, where the Plasma touches it, or replace it with new roller fairleads or a new hawse made from Aluminium or Stainless.

Any of these will do because they will not suffer from the dreaded rust - not kind to any synthetic.

Personal preference - Ali or stainless hawse, fit & forget!

Regards,

Andy.

[Synthetic rope splicing]

Hi All,

I use 4 times through the body of the rope - 6 strands a side, then down the core.

BUT - most important - you have got to taper the end in the core so when you slide you hand down the outside of the rope you cannot feel any bumps or ridges.

Reason - if the rope is forced around the lip of an untapered line within the outer rope, the strength is compromised by anything up to 50%.

Be warned.

If in doubt have a look at the "Quick Splicing" instructions on my website.

Regards,

Andy Thomlinson.

[Thumbs up for Ruftraks]

Hi Lewis,

Many thanks for your kind words.

Ruftraks has been around now for about 6 years, I always try and give honest advice about the right product for the right use.

Glad you are happy with your purchase.

Kindest regards,

Andy Thomlinson.

Managing Director, Ruftraks UK limited.

[New year, new winch mod.]

Dear Fridge, figures would be nice, are you aware of the cost of such certification when applied to shackles and cables? Both are high volume production items and there is also a legal requirement. The figures for batteries are similar to those quoted for winch motors, an indication and in some instances an exaggeration.

Please don’t tell me you believe the figures quoted by winch manufacturers!

The Weston Park winch test proves those provided by manufacturers are a dream as no winch pulled over 2tonne.

The first winch in your list proves the point. The Husky is a fine piece of kit, offered in two guises, 8,000 lb and 10,000 lb. The difference between the two models? Nothing!

Same motor, same gear ratio, same drum diameter. Choice of gear ratio for 12 or 24volt models.

Mr Bowyer does not list reams of figures, he will demonstrate, he will put you in contact with people who have the winch you are interested in. Jim will do the same. Many of the top people in the UK challenge scene use Jim’s products for the simple fact he uses them himself and gets results. Jim will I am sure obtain some figures for current drain when possible.

You rate the H14 which I also used for some time while competing, if the H14 does what you want you will have no use for a twin motor 8274.

Hi Jim,

I am getting a little of that dejavou stuff.

Why is it that when anybody dares to deviate from the norm they get hammered!!

It was not that long ago that some tinpot little company in Scotland decided to "have a go" at importing purple string from accrss the pond - have some patience, it took them almost 2 years to convince the sceptics that is was worth a punt!!!

Now look around - everyone is wanting a piece of the action.

Regards,

Andy.

[New year, new winch mod.]

Pah

Maybe, but then why not 'Portal Tom'

'Portal RT'

'Portal Andy'

'Portal 79% discount Nige and no VAT"

Nige

Hi Nige,

I have now updated the picture and the signature ( thanks).

Why Portal Bob??

Well it's a black RR Bob on Portals.

Really short at 88"" wheelbase.

It has been built over the last 18 months, with lots of mods.

Even more since that picture was taken - looks quite different now.

All your suggestions are very apt, but I think I will stick with mine!

Regards,

Andy Thomlinson

POA & Custodian of Portal Bob.

[New year, new winch mod.]

Hi Andy, dont really understand what you are asking - If you are implying that I want a further discount on the already excellent price you gave me then that is not the case, although if you are offering one then who am i to refuse

I merely wish to have the ropes

My earlier comment was not intended as an insult or bad reference to you in any way, apart from the as yet lack of winch rope in my sweaty little mit I have been pleased with our transaction so far, and would use your company again in the future

Best Regards

Lewis

Hi Lewis,

Do you know I never even thought of you when I replied - didn't associate you with the outstanding order - dumb or what!!

It was only when you replied that I made the connection - always a slow start to the year here in Scotland, especially me!!!!

As agreed, I will put on my angry, chaser hat on Monday and find out where the order has gone!!

Best wishes,

Andy Thomlinson.

www.ruftraks.co.uk

[New year, new winch mod.]

Not yet, but i will do when I find one at the right price. Apart from the 8274's (which dont work, and have no rope - come on Ruftraks ) my only other winch is a vintage Warn M10000 which isnt even fitted to a vehicle

Lewis

Hello,

Interesting little thread this!

No, I will not enter this particular debate as I know nothing!!!!

Merely here by invitation of Lewis - looking for cheap Plasma are we???

Always an avenue worth exploring.

Andy Thomlinson.

Ruftraks UK Limited.