Jump to content


Photo

How To Increase The Performance Of Your 200/300tdi


  • Please log in to reply
2 replies to this topic

#1 white90

white90

    .

  • Settled In
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 9,649 posts
  • Location:Somerset

Posted 06 August 2005 - 10:54 PM

So, you want to know how to get more power out of your 300Tdi (or 200 Tdi for that matter)? These engines are both fitted with the Bosch VE type fuel pumps, and although they work at different out-put pressures, and some are fitted with immobiliser valves and throttle position sensors, essentially they work in exactly the same way.

This is not the case with the electronically controlled versions, where an engine management system is employed and there is no direct accelerator peddle to throttle link – the following methods of adjustment should not be used on these types of fuel injection distributor pumps. These engines can be ‘chipped’ to get the same sort of power increase.

Below is what I have done.

I MAKE NO GUARANTEES THAT THE ADJUSTMENTS ARE SAFE FOR YOUR ENGINE – IF YOU DO THESE ADJUSTMENTS THEY ARE DONE AT YOUR OWN RISK. READ ALL OF THE INFORMATION BELOW BEFORE YOU START !

Remember - this will void any remaining warranty.


I first of all went to a Japanese Car Breakers yard and bought a rather nice big intercooler from a 1990 Toyota Supra. It was in excellent condition, is about twice the size of the original Disco item, and cost £35.

I then bought some reinforced 50mm rubber hose and some pre-formed 50mm reinforced rubber hose ’90 degree Bends’. I then fitted the new intercooler in-front of the Air-Con Radiator assembly and plumbed in the pipe-work to the original intercooler inlet. I now have three times the cooling capacity of the original intercooler. This means more cold air = more power !!!

However, all this extra plumbing has added a little more resistance to the air flow, which means that you get your 1 bar at the turbo outlet, but you don’t get 1 bar at the inlet valves. To get over this, drill and tap a hole in the inlet manifold (plenum chamber) and screw in barbed hose fitting (available from your local plumbing merchant for about £1). Get a bit of tube and push it over this fitting and lead it down to your waste-gate actuator – plug it into that and blank off the hose you had to pull off, that leads back to the turbo outlet. Thus the waste-gate will now only get 1 bar when you get 1 bar at the inlet valves, and then it will start opening.

I plumbed a ‘T’ into the above fitting and led a hose to an accurate pressure gauge mounted on the dash, so I can monitor the turbo boost. This can help you to drive economically too, but it allows you to see how well you turbo is working.

If needs be, you can shorten the waste-gate actuator rod and increase the boost. You may need to remove the actuator and cut a bit off the end of the rod to allow sufficient adjustment in the sleeve portion (don’t take too much off at once – better do it in 3mm increments !). What you will find is the rod is too long to get more boost, as too much of it screws into the sleeve and bottoms out. You will have to shorten it quite a way to get more than 1 bar boost – but this is often all you need. 200 Tdis run at 0.7 – 0.8 bar – you can safely increase this to 1 bar – 300Tdi’s run at 1 bar already – best left alone!

In doing this you will find that you are actually having to pull the rod against the actuator spring to get it back onto the waste-gate – this is quite fiddly – use locking pliers and mind your fingers! Ensure you put the circlip back on. This means that the actuator spring is now holding the waste-gate shut, and means that more boost is required to overcome the spring before the waste-gate is opened. It won’t fully open now either, so boost pressure is held at a constantly higher pressure for longer.

Now you have got all that extra nice cool air at 1 bar, you need the fuel to go with it to get the extra performance. Here’s how to do that:


Diagram 1 Diagram 2 Diagram 3

All Adjustments can be made without removing the pump from the engine.
Low manifold pressure (boost) fuel delivery adjustment.
See: ‘Smoke Adjustment Screw’ in either diagram 1 or 2
This adjustment is fairly simple and will help considerably around town at low engine speeds and low boost conditions.
There is a small cap in the centre of the ‘ automatic fuel-control device’ (AFC) on top of the pump (the ‘appendage’ that is plumbed to the intake manifold and restricts the amount of fuel injected until the manifold pressure is above atmospheric). This cap can be readily removed with two small screwdrivers and a gentle rocking motion.
Beneath the cap is a torx T-25 screw and a lock nut that holds it. The locknut is 13 mm and has a ‘break-away torque’ of around 100 in-lbs. Turn the T-25 screw 2 turns clockwise and tighten the locknut to 125 in-lbs. For additional fuel (and smoke) the screw may be turned farther (CW). Back it off (CCW) to reduce smoke.
NOTE: this will increase the exhaust gas temperature (EGT) by about 75 degrees F on long hills. Clean the plug with Brake Cleaner and then seal it with LocTite pipe thread sealant with teflon. Externally, it will appear original.


Full load fuel delivery rate adjustment.
See: Diagram 3
This adjustment will TURN UP THE POWER and smoke.
NOTE: this will raise the EGT very quickly at full throttle.
The main adjustment is found under the Diaphragm within the fuel control device described above. This is held in place with the 4-screw cover.
MARK THE POSITION OF THE DIAPHRAGM, then remove the diaphragm - there is a stamped tick mark on it, so use a magic marker or scribe to note the position of the diaphragm ‘v’ housing.
Remove the diaphragm and pin, and note the pin is both tapered and on an eccentric. Usually, rotating the pin 120 degrees clockwise will cause the machined cone to go to the ‘richest’ setting (smallest diameter, effectively) part of the pin.
You may want to start at 90 degrees, and then go further if that does not produce the power you want. The further you turn it, the higher and faster EGT will climb. The fuel stop lever runs up and down the conical section of this pin.
NOTE: the way to install the pin is such that allows maximum travel of the fuel stop lever that hits this pin and is perpendicular to it.
CAUTION: mark stuff so you can put it back the way it was !
After adjusting the diaphragm eccentric pin, the low boost fuel rate may need to be adjusted slightly to reduce low speed smoke.
How it works:
The eccentric tapered pin that’s attached to the diaphragm is the FUEL DELIVERY RATE pin.
From above, looking down at the pump, almost to the bottom of the bore that the delivery rate pin came out of, is the bore that the fuel stop lever rides in. The linear axis or centre-line of the fuel stop lever is parallel to the axis of the pump drive shaft, or the engine crank shaft. The movement of the delivery rate pin (down with increasing boost levels) allows the fuel stop lever (which by internal spring pressure is contacting it) to contact the increasingly smaller diameter. This allows the fuel stop lever to move rearward (on the fuel delivery pin), which increases the fuel delivery rate. As a note: according to the Bosch injection manual, the “stock” or base line for the diaphragm position is 12:00 as you look at the pump from the side of the engine. In other words, the tick mark is toward the valve cover, for the normal setting. If you look at the underside of the diaphragm, you can see where the eccentric aspect of the Fuel Delivery Rate Pin would push the fuel stop lever deepest toward the front of the pump, that is the LEAST delivery rate setting. Consider that 12:00. Rotating the diaphragm clockwise from that point to 3:00 is a good place to go. Depending on the injectors that are in, and your turbo boost, you may want to turn a little more.

Automatic Fuel Control Star Wheel Adjustment
See: ‘Starwheel’, diagram 1
Remove the cap fitted with the 4 straight head screws. Under the AFC diaphragm and spring is a star wheel adjustment which sets the spring tension on the FUEL DELIVERY RATE PIN diaphragm. If your star wheel (under the AFC spring) is set too high, the delivery rate pin won’t move downward as it should with increasing boost levels. Turning the star wheel up (counter-clockwise) increases the spring pressure, and slows the delivery rate. Turning the star wheel down (clockwise) in ¼ turn increments until you smoke, then back off (counter-clockwise) until the smoke has gone to your satisfaction, or until just smokes under power (a black haze, not a black soot cloud) is ok. The retaining lock spring doesn’t have to be removed, the star wheel will rotate with a small screwdriver gently placed and pried between the wheel and it.
CAUTION: Note the original location of the wheel, mark it, and count any turns for reference.
Remember: Star wheel down = less spring resistance = increased fuel delivery rate

Full Power Adjustment

See ‘Power Adjustment Screw’, diagram 2
On the rear of the pump, partially concealed by the fuel lines, and under a plastic ‘anti-tamper’ cap is an other adjustment screw. Remove the plastic cap and the metal collar tack-welded to the screw, loosen the jam-nut, and turn the power adjustment screw clockwise about 11/2 to 2 turns. After turning the Full Power Adjustment, you may need to re-adjust the Smoke Adjustment Screw to reduce low speed smoke, and the idle screw or throttle linkage to correct the idle speed.
To remove the metal collar it is best to use a ‘Dremmel’ type grinder, or very carefully using an electric drill and 2mm or smaller drill bit, drill a series of holes along the collar and then gently chisel it off with a very sharp cold chisel. The collar appears to be made out of a hardened steel, so a very sharp drill bit is required.

Idle Adjustment:
See ‘Idle Speed Screw’ Diagram 3
Once you have done the above, you will probably need to reset the idle speed adjustment. Loosen the lock nut and then unscrew (reduce revs) or screw in (increases revs) the idle stop until you get 750 – 800 RPM, then tighten the lock nut and recheck you haven’t moved the setting. Most, but not all, disco’s have a rev counter, but you can set those that don’t have one by putting a dab of white paint (Tippex correcting fluid is good) on the crank pulley (with the engine stationary!). Connect a standard timing light (according to manufacturers instructions) to a petrol engine car fitted with a rev counter and parked close enough for the timing light to reach into the engine bay of your Disco. Start both engines and if the petrol engine is held at the revs you want the Diesel engine set to, the correct revs on the diesel engine are reached when your painted mark is stationary.

Additional Notes:
If your smoke is only at full throttle load - back off the full load screw.
If your smoke is at low end through pull-up to full power - back down the delivery rate.
If smoke is heavy at immediate start-up - fine adjust the smoke set screw.

In order to increase the horsepower one must carefully make two adjustments: one is in the smoke-limiter and will be adjusted to allow greater fuel with low manifold pressure (initially, this is adjusted to minimise black smoke at low rpm/low manifold pressure conditions... but, we cannot build exhaust manifold pressure without fuel !). You must remove the circular seal-plug from the centre of the AFC device. This reveals the first adjustment. This adjustment will markedly affect the feel of the cars pull-a-way power, making it pull from a stop more strongly. Adjust this in ¼-turn increments until you ‘like’ the feel and record the adjustment so you can return it to ‘normal’ in preparation for a smoke opacity test for the MOT.
The second adjustment is where the real gain comes from... There is a concealed adjustment on the ‘back side’ of the pump... essentially behind the fuel lines. [See the power adjustment screw on diagram 2 above] You must uncover the adjustment screw and turn it 135-degrees clockwise. You may have to reduce idle speed back to 750 rpm after this adjustment.
Remember - this will void any remaining warranty.
I MAKE NO GUARANTEES THAT THE ADJUSTMENTS ARE SAFE FOR YOUR ENGINE – IF YOU DO THESE ADJUSTMENTS THEY ARE DONE AT YOUR OWN RISK.


I found some these details after many hours of searching on the Internet. I got the bits on how to adjust the VE pump from the following site: www.dodgeram.com/technical/DIESEL/more_power/power_ve.htm
I offer my sincere and grateful regards to those how posted them there …they enabled me to transform my 300Tdi ES Discovery for very little money compared to what some of the advertised ‘specialists’ charge.
A word of advice though: incorrect adjustment of any of the above may destroy your engine and or cause it to fail emission tests if not done correctly. Be sure you’re both competent and able to make the adjustments before attempting them. Do them at your own risk. If in doubt, pay for an expert to do them for you. You may need to inform your insurance company of the modifications you have made.

If you cant see the diagrammes on this page - go to the above web site and print them off from there.You will see that I have very slightly altered some of the information to make it easier to understand. I have also taken out some of the stuff that isn't relevant.

Have fun and enjoy!

But please let me have your comments on the above - lets see if we can get 100 posted replies !!!!

Jon the author
Tony


Keep this forum independent click HERE.

#2 white90

white90

    .

  • Settled In
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 9,649 posts
  • Location:Somerset

Posted 06 August 2005 - 11:34 PM

Hi all,

I have checked the link, and may have misinterpreted how to get you there. Try this one:

best write uphere

best write uphere


I am glad some of you liked the info....I suppose I could charge for it, but I faced lots of opposition from various sources to get it, and resented that. I resolved to make it freely available once I found out, hence the posting...

Jon


wELL
JON WHAT WAS THE RESULT OF THIS MODIFICATION
I.E BHP TORQUE MPG 0-60,OFFROAD PERFORMANCE

ETC
GIVE US SOME FEEDBACK BEFORE WE GO AND PLAY MECHANICS


Too early to say yet, Marios, about economy, but the pull-a-way from standstill feels MUCH better, and mid-range is excellent compared to old - I have the confidence to attempt an overtake now! I use the car for towing - but havent towed since the mods yet - I'll let you know what that feels like as soon as I do. I havent off roaded this one so I cant compare b4 and after. The last Landy I off roaded was a 110 V8 about 15 years ago (when I used to do a bit of off roading in Scotland and Norfolk during the summer)and before that a S11A (which I rolled off road ! - not too much damage - drove it home once it was back on its wheels!)

I'll keep you all posted on how well it goes over the next few weeks, but its all quite new at the moment and feels great - lets see if the effect wears off !

Incidentally, I was only getting an average of 25 mpg b4, but the engine has now only just done 24000 miles and is still quite tight. My old 200 TDi didnt get over 30 mpg until it had done 60,000 miles ! I tinkered with that one too, and although I did the turbo wastegate mods and increased the full load fuelling, I didnt do the other mods to it, except for putting a really good fan on the intercooler to help it work better. Those mods alone produced a really good and worthwhile improvement, but nothing like these have !

I would reccomend the fitting of a boost guage if you are going to alter the boost pressure - it is quite easy to over do things !

Jon


Ohh my god! What a difference that makes! Its like a whole new car have supprised a few boy racers all ready! bottom end power has increased, mid range is dangerous, and top end comes and goes that quick! I hit a peak tourque at 3000rpm I know that because in the wet and first gear the wheels spin even though your already moving! I am now considering entering it in our clubs comp-safari once roll cage is fitted!
Thanks Jon!!!!


------------------
NICK
Muddydisco@AOL.com
150 Bhp Tdi


Told you so - naa na na naaa na !

Go steady though, and check you smoke output - lots means wasted fuel and also can make for high Exhaust Gas Temp = burnt valves / pistons !!! EEK !

Jon


Jon,
What an excellent post!
I'm just putting the finishing touces to my intercooler & am getting the pump & turbo sorted on a rolling road.
The reason for this?
I have a Mazda 3.5 SLTi in mine & don't want to blow it up just yet. The chappie who's doing the road running says that conservatively I'll be getting over 300 ftlb torque & 175 bhp (present is 260 & 135 respectively!). I nearly cacked meself!
I'll keep you lot posted as to how long it is b4 I'm busted!
Mike
PS - where'd you get your boost guage from, Jon - only thing I haven't been able to source yet.


Mike

I got my boost gauge from a car boot sale ! But you can get them from Carnoisseur (or however they spell it!) - a car accessory shop that sells stuff for boy racers ! 'Tim Superdash' do them too - go to your local acessory shop such as The Motorists Centre for these.

Hope this helps -

Jon


Jon, An excellent and detailed post.
I don't run a 200 or 300, but have posted the LRE forum page ref to a couple of people.
Do you have a EGT gauge fitted? If so, where did you source it from? Whereabouts in the exhaust system did you put the thermocouple?

Thanks, David.


Jon

can you post some detailed instructions and pictures how to adjust the turbo to 1 bar
i have a 200 tdi and i want to know

also i am a bit confused is the FULL LOAD DELIVERY ADJ AS PER YOUR INSTRUCTION = STAR WHEEL ADJUSTMENT?

Thanks
marios

Marios and David...

Here is my interpretation of what is happening....

No, I dont have an Exhaust Gas Temp gauge fitted, but if you want details of how to make one....! Seriously though, go to this site - which although relates to petrol engines, I think has some excellent information on. Also, you will have to go through to find the other articles - they are linked, so it is very easy. Look at 'the complete guide to intercooling - parts 1 & 2', 'Brilliant Boost', 'Project EXA','TEMPSCREEN: Parts 1 - 4', all written by Julian Edgar. These articles will help you make your own tweak devices at little cost compared to buying, and will also help you understand what is going on...

You will find them at : http://www.autospeed..._1/article.html

As for where to fit it... dump the Exhaust Gas Recirculation Valve (EGR)and you now have an ideal place to fit your temp sender ! This action is worth doing and is reputed to be worth a few BHP - replace the pipe from the top of the intercooler to the plenum chamber (inlet manifold) with a straight bit of tube or rubber pipe for better air flow (less restriction). Keep the EGR assembly and pipes in the garage for future selling of the car.... also dont do this if you are in a country that requires the device to be fitted. It is NOT needed in the UK - apparently ! You can just undo the multi-plug from the unit and tie it up out of the way, so that it can all bolt back on if you have to one-day...

Marios - the FULL LOAD DELIVERY is NOT the Star Wheel adjustment, it is the 'rotating of the diaphragm (and pin attached to it)' - this pin is of an excentric shape and rotating it alters the profile that the fuel stop lever travels along. Turning it anti- clockwise reduces the amount of fuel delived and clockwise increases the amount of fuel.

In reducing the amount of fuel, the fuel stop lever is pushed away from the pins axis and this causes the slider (contol spool) on the plunger to move to the right, allowing fuel pressure to the injectors to drop sooner - in other words less fuel is delivered in the same 'stroke'of the plunger. Moving the diaphragm clockwise slightly (30 degrees or so) allows the fuel stop lever to be pushed 'less' far away from the pins axis and thus moves the control spool to the left - allowing the plunger to create pressure in the fuel injector for longer before pressure is dropped out of the control spool (more fuel delivered for the same amount of 'stroke')The crux of it is that the 'stroke' remains constant for any given engine speed - the amount of fuel delivered depends upon the how long the pressure is held at a high enough pressure to overcome the injector spring valve (but that is another story !!).The control spool, in moving either left or right adjusts how long the pressure can be maintained for - longer time = more fuel delivered- Got it ?? !! Hope so !!

The Star Wheel adjusts the 'pick up'(or how much fuel is allowed to be delivered, by the control of the height and thus profile of the Fuel Delivery Rate Pin) as boost begins to develop - it alters how much boost is required for an increase in fuelling, by adjusting the tension on the spring acting on the diaphragm that opposes the boost pressure. - Got that !

Hope this helps you to understand what is going on inside the pump !

As for adjusting the waste gate - on the 200 TDi this is quite easy as the wastegate is easily accessed - on the 300 it is in a ******* of a place and is probably more easily adjusted if the wastegate assembly is removed - dont know for sure because I havent do it on a 300 - the boost is already 1 bar and that should be enough if you dont want it all to go BANG !

Back to the 200....

Remove the circlip (wear eye protection) and lever (gently bently !) the wastegate 'arm' off the pin sticking out of the exhaust manifold. You may need pliers to do this - mind your fingers!

With this off you will see that part of the 'arm' is threaded and part of it (the bit that attaches to the pin sticking out of the manifold) is a sleeve which screws onto the threaded part.

Slacken the lock nut and wind the threaded bit right into the sleeve, then tighten the lock nut.

You will now HAVE to use pliers to pull against the spring inside the wastegate, to get the 'arm' back onto the pin sticking out of the manifold. Replace the circlip - wear eye protection !!

You should now have got at least 1 bar boost but you REALLY NEED A BOOST GAUGE to check at this point. If you need more boost, you may have to cut a bit of the threaded part of the rod off, as it will have probably bottomed out in the sleeve bit. I advise unbolting the wastegate and doing this with it held firmly in a vise - its only a couple of bolts and is easy enough to get off.

Dont cut too much off - do it in 3 or 4 mm bits at a time, and recheck your boost each time. Pain in the bum I know, but its better than hacking off a great big bit and stuffing your wastegate!

If you have too much boost - lengthen the 'arm' by slackening the lock nut and unscrewing the sleeve from the threaded rod - do it a couple of turns at a time and refit, checking boost each time until you have the desired boost pressure.

When checking boost, you need to get to full operating temp, find a long hill and climb it on full power in third or forth gear.

If you have a boost gauge fitted (dont know how your going to check it otherwise !) and the needle flickers lots as the wastegate does its stuff, you can stop this by putting a restrictor in the hose to the boost gauge - it really needs to only allow a very small hole for the pressure to get through. I used an air correction jet out of a weber carb (no 30) and it works fine.

Refit and show the boy racers a good time!

Jon


ou la la
Jon
its all Greek to me !!
despite Greek being my 1st language

I have never seen a wastegate open to see whats in it although I managed to understand which part of the turbo is

Hmm i think i will still need some pics to do it?

anyone knows of a web site with turbo tuning
thanks Jon anyway


Jon,
Great info, I'd love to do the mods, sounds like great fun, but I think my 200TDi at 212,000 is a little to old for that racing around.
All you guys need now is the brake mods to get you stopped

Marios

Judging from your reply, I would strongly suggest that you leave ALL engine adjustments to someone who knows what they are doing.
These adjustments CAN seriously damage your engine if you dont know what you are doing ahen you make them.

Jon

Jon, read your post with great interest. Here at 5000ft, the 'pull away' on my 300tdi 110 is awful, if not outright dangerous when turning right in the face of oncoming traffic. So I did the first bit you recommended, especially as I have a set of torx 'keys'. 2 turns clockwise on the smoke-adjustment setting. It now smokes on acceleration (until the turbo kicks in) but what a difference! This morning I out-accelerated a car away from traffic lights. (Ok, it was only a Fiat Uno, and maybe he wasn't trying ).

But the vehicle is now a LOT safer. As I have a boost gauge fitted I see the boost going positive much quicker than before.

I'm a bit wary about the other changes, especially when it comes to bashing things with cold chisels. What is a Dremmel grinder?

ps I would call this adjustment the "James Bond" setting. Now, when coasting along, if a car tailgates me I put my foot down and give him a taste of diesel!


Jim

A Dremmel Grinder is the same sort of thing as Black and Decker make - and call a Wizzard (or something like !)

Basically it is a small electric hand grinder that runs up at about 25,000 rpm. It uses purpose made grinding attachments and cnad be used very accurately to grind, polisk, drill, engrave etc... hence it is iedal to remove the small 'anti -tamper' collar on the max. fuel screw.


The Star Wheel Adjustment should give you the best increase in performance, as it allows the boost to have an effect from very little boost all the way up to max boost. Adjusting this allows the small amount of initial boost to depress the diaphragm 'more easily' and so you get more fuel and thus more power at an earlier stage of accellerating - this gets even better as the boost builds....!!!! but may cause a little smoke. If it does, back off the first adjustment slightly. This one raise and lowers the eccentric pin in relation to the diaphragm, so giving a richer (lower) or weaker (higher) fuel ratio before you even start to build boost.

The next thing to consider, whislt adjusting the Star Wheel, is rotating the diaphragm and pin by about 30 degreese clockwise, to present a better profile of the pin to the max fuel stop lever - see above for an explantion of how this works.

You only need to adjust the MAX Fuel Screw (involving cutting off the collar with the 'Dremmel')if you want more 'top end' power for a slightly higher top speed, or better 'flat out' accelleration. It does cause you to use more fuel, so before you do it, consider if you really need it.

Jon


Good Post John.

I had repied to your earlier thread on what to do for more power.
My 300tdi is a 1994 model and as such doesnt have the polution equip.
There are only 2 adj on this model that I am aware of.
1st on is to remove the diaphram cover and turn diaphram clockwise.
2nd one is to up overall fuel using screw on end of pump.
The diaphram has a metal welsh plug in the middle so I assume no star wheel.

All the best
Bazzle

Bazzle

The Star Wheel is underneath the diaphragm.

Under the 'welsh plug' is a nut and spindle - the centre of the spindle is a Torx fitting - hold this with the appropriate Torx 'spanner', undo the nut and then turn the Torx head a couple of turns clockwise - retighten the nut and replace the 'welsh plug'.

Then do the Star wheel, then the max fuel adjustment.

Jon

Jon,
had another go yesterday. Undid the 4 screws etc got out the diaphragm but forgot to mark the original position (duh!). Read everything you wrote about it again, compared the offsets on the shaft, and yes, the least fuel ie furthest forward of the conical shaft is when the dot is at 12 o'clock facing the engine. So I turned it to 4:30 ie 135 degrees.

Moved the star wheel 1/4 turn clockwise.

Backed off on the smoke screw to 1 1/4 turns cw (from 2 which made the acceleration smoke quite extreme).

It seems to go well, less smoke on acceleration, a little less 'go' on initial pullaway but better acceleration generally.

When going uphill, 2600rpm in 5th, in the past flooring the throttle would give me not quite 1 bar, about .9 or .95 . Now I get 1 bar, and sometimes 1.05 . Maybe another 1/4 turn on the star wheel? There is no smoke to speak of when boosted.

Jim

I agree - another 1/4 turn on the Star Wheel - remember to mark the position of the diaphragm this time!

It is fiddly, but best to adjust the Star Wheel in 1/4 turn increments and try it out before making another adjustment. I would think that the next couple of 1/4 turns would be enough, but you could keep going until you get smoke and then go back one 1/4 turn and recheck. If no smoke (or little) then leave it at that.

Jon

Wow

No wonder the fauna of Bedfordshire get mangled round your wheels everyday. I bet they didn't even see you coming.


Rocket

OK, I'll try another 1/4 turn (total 1/2) turn on the star wheel. I agree that it is wrong to adjust more than one thing at once.

Some ******* broke into the truck and stole my toolkit. Inside the kit was the tin plug from above the smoke screw. I don't suppose Bosch will sell me one as you're not supposed to remove it. I can hardly say it fell off! I'll have to find a reasonable substitute somehow.

Jim

Sorry to hear about your truck getting broken into - I know what that is like, having been broken into about 7 times now in the last 10 years!

I don't know for sure, but try a block 'core plug'. I know these come in variious sizes - you never know you may get one to fit....

Jon

Jon,

I've turned the power adjustment screw on the back of the pump several times clock- wise and the engine produces quite a lot of smoke at full throttle. Is this bad and should I back the screw off. The smoke seems to reduce though after a couple of seconds at full throttle.
Any advice much appreciated
Adam.

Adam

It is very important when making ANY adjustments to do them one at a time and record exactly what you have done so you can put it back to original if it isnt right.

In this case I think you have turned the max fuel adjustment screw in too much. Adjusting this screw will cause black smoke on accelleration - try to get someone to follow you when you accellerate hard and tell you 'how much' smoke your makin! If the smoke continues once you have reached full speed at full throttle - you have too much fuel - back the screw off. Best to make the adjustments in 1/2 turn intervals and retry - smoke on accelleration - if not excessive -is acceptable. Lots of smoke is too much so back the screw off 1/2 a turn. You shouldnt get much smoke at all at full speed at full throttle - if you do, back the screw off 1/2 turn. In all cases check after making the adjustment and then adjust again if necessary.

Hope this helps

Jon

Jon - got my toolkit back! It turned out some tosser of a security guard spotted my window open and took my stuff for 'safe keeping'. Didn't leave a note on the truck and I eventually got my stuff back 4 days later (after replacing most of the tools). I don't think he was going to steal the stuff, just a bit stupid, that's all.

I have now settled on the following settings:

1) 1 1/2 turns cw on the smoke screw
2) diaphragm turned to 4:30
3) 1/2 turn cw on the star wheel.

It smokes on acceleration only. The power at lower revs is great. For the moment I'll leave the power adjustment alone. I'll keep a check on the fuel consumption and let you know (I have exact records for 100k kms). Overall it's much nicer to drive. Thanks Jim

http://www.cs.roches...fi/injpump.html

THIS SHOULD BE USEFUL TO ALL ATTEMPTING THE ABOVE MODS


Now youve all done these mods what fuel economy are you getting around town and highway?.

Im getting 19 to 21mpg (15 to 14 l/100ks) around town and 20 to 24mpg (14 to 11.5 l/100ks) at 110 kph on highway running.

bazzle


Baz

I previously got 25.6 mpg (measured quite accurately over a period of time) then got 21 mpg after the mods! I backed off the diaphrgm by 10 degrees and got back up to 26.5 mpg, where it has stayed. I think this is partly due to the enthusiasm of using the new found power...I'll post another reply to this in a few weeks when I have got used to it and slowed down a bit !

Jon

Jon,

Today I tried to adjust the star wheel as sugested. I tried turning it clockwise, but it could barely make 1/4 of a turn as it was almost fully turned in (max fuel setting). So I then backed it off to its original position and then a further 1 revolution. Performance is about the same and there is less smoke on acceleration and start up. Should my pump have been like this? Also should I back it off a bit more?
Any advice would be much appreciated.
Cheers Adam.


Sorry one other thing. The pump was a new item as the original pump was broken and had to be replaced.

Adam

The Star Wheel adjusts the fuelling as boost builds - it adjusts how much boost is needed to allow the diaphragm to move the plunger down. If it was already set to almost the bottom , then I am not surprised you got black smoke on pulling away, as you would have had the balance of fuel : boost out by quite a bit - too much fuel and not enough air.

Raising the height of the star wheel (spring) will give more resistance to the downward movement of the diaphragm and plunger, allowing more boost to build before the fuelling increases. This will mean that the ratio of fuel to air is less (less fuel = less smoke and more efficiency).

I would continue to back it off until you get the power at 'pull-a-way' you want, with as little smoke as possible.

The initial setting of the 'idle mixture' (as would be on a petrol carburettor) is set by the torx bolt under the anti tamper cap on top of the diaphragm cover. This helps with the 'pull-away power' too, by setting a slightly richer mixture before there is any boost at all. Again, turn clockwise till you get smoke, then back off. Do it a little at a time (1/2 turn is probably enough).

Remember o count the number of turns so you can reset everything to original if required later.

I dont think the pump was set up correctly from new for this engine - but then again they are assembled to exacting tollerances otherwise they could cause the engine to melt down !

I think they measure the effort needed to depress the diaphragm with a spring balance, and set the torx bolt to a preset height, along with setting the position of the plunger and diaphragm to a text book place suitable for all engines. That is why they perform better on some than others - they are not optimised for the circumstances particular to an individual engine - which is where companies like Van Aaken come in - they reset everything to match the engine it is bolted to - optimise it - which make it go a whole lot better. But this is something you can do yourself by closely following the instructions above !

Have fun and good luck

Jon


My fuel consumption has not changed noticeably. But I have not adjusted the full power setting, just the pullaway. And this is not just a thumbsuck - I have exactly accurate stats from an Excel worksheet over the last 103k.


AdamG

Thanks Jon,
My pump can't have been adjusted for my engine as it did not come with it. I shall continue to turn the star screw anti-clockwise to reduce smoke.


Jim
Can you post your consumption figures etc??

Bazzle

Jon

I did what you recomended

turned the Torx screw 1,1/2 turns clockwise

the diaphragm 90 degrees and the star wheel

half a turn

piece of cake very easy

biggest effect came from the torx screw now my 200 tdi pulls much better than my friends 300 tdi he he

but after 3rd gear is engaged he is faster

must be the 1 bar of the 300 vs the 0,7 bar of the 200

no more smoke was noticed actually hardly any

one question

the diapragm had a tick mark actually a full stop dot print on it but it wasnt at the 12 o clock position as u said towards the engine but a 3 o clock towards the front of the car

is that normal ???

now the dot is at the 6 o clock position

is that ok?

shall i try the full power screw on the rear

intercooler is still the LR one

if yes how many turns?

Marios

The position of the dot or tick seems to vary - mine was actually set to the 9 o clock position originally. I think it is more important that it gives you a reference point from where you can make alterations or reset to a known position. If you get really stuck and loose where you started from, you only need to look at the shape of the plunger and set the position of it so that the lever is poking into the guide for the plunger as far as possible = weakest setting. You can then start again from there ! However, I have found that the plunger has actually been marked - sort of scored - by the lever running up and down it, so you could reset easily by making the mark line up with the lever....

I would adjust the full power screw by one complete turn and see what effect that has. If it smokes, back off a little, if not go forward a little more until you get smoke and then back off. Remember this is the FULL power screw, so expect the effect under FULL load or accelleration.

Jon

thanks Jon

I was just under the car trying to turn the full power screw but the damn thing wont move
in the 200 tdi defender the pump is much lower than the 300 tdi so there is no way to be able to get in there and take the metal colar off

so i gave it a go with the screwdriver

result broken tip of srewdriver

can the nut move without cutting the collar?

have you dyno tested your car what is BHP now?

Marios

The nut cant move without first removing the collar - it is an 'anti-tamper' device ! Under it is a lock nut, and that may be sealed with a dab of paint too. You must remove the collar and then slaken the nut before you can move the screw.

I haven't dyno tested my car, but by the feel of it, it is producing about 20% more, or + 25 BHP (to about 140 BHP ish ) and the same sort of torque gain.

Jon


DO not force the max fuel screw on the rear of the pump. Damage will occur. If you cannot move the max fuel srew in on the rear of the pump winding in the diaphram 1/2 a turn does nearly the same thing in my experience.
Come on guys some MPGs please...

bazzle


Jon & Bazzle

took the car for a spin yesterday

pulls much better but...

the engine makes alot more noise
at 100 kph it sound like i am doing 130kph

before it would cruise at 100 and only revv itself to death at 130

now it over revs at 100

i didnt reduce the idle rpm after the mods but today did turn the idle screw anti CW a half a turn or something

is that enough

i have a tach fitted but its a useless cheap piece of crab

next time only buy VDO


Jon,
I live in Madeira island Portugal and i had a 94 300Tdi. I make the follows alterations:1/4 turn in smoke screw, 90º more in diaphragm, 1/2 turn in AFC star wheel and 1/8 turn in full power adjustment (all clockwise).
Conclusions:
I drive now a new car. Is more fast than a TD5, the torque is superb, is perfect in offroad and it doesn`t smoke not too much than b4.
Jon thanks a lot for all your information, that`s people like you who makes Land Rover eternal!!!
LAND ROVER RULES!


Nuno

I'm glad you found the information useful. Its good to get a reply detailing what you have done with the information, so others can see what works and what doesnt.

Enjoy your Landy !

Thanks for your comments.

Jon

Nuno

I'm glad you found the information useful. Its good to get a reply detailing what you have done with the information, so others can see what works and what doesnt.

Enjoy your Landy !

Thanks for your comments.

Jon

Jon

After all the fiddling and gains I'm still to find the star wheel.
To remove the diaphram I started tuning it (counting all the time) anticlockwise. After 6 full turns I wound it back and left it there.
Is this the same adj as the star wheel?
I didnt think so as Ive found it to give the same effect as turning the mixture screw on the rear.

bazzle

On Saturday I found out how to simply increase my tdi performance - change the cambelt yourself!!

The ****ing LR dealer had mistimed the camshaft sprocket by 1 tooth 60k ago. It now goes much better. Name of dealer suppressed to protect the guilty.

And the moral of this story is.....

Bazzle

The Star Wheel is under the diaphragm ! I know it seems difficult to remove the diaphragm, but once you have got it out you will see why. Try gently pressing the stud in the top of the diaphragm in and rotating it anti clockwise. It should then lift up under spring pressure from below. If it doesnt, just GENTLY ease the diaphragm up from the edges and hold the metal disc in the middle to lift it up. It should all come out of the guide then. You will see that the pin has a 'edge' on the bottom that was catching on the end of the lever from the control spool.

Let me know how you get on.

Jim

I did this on my old 200 TDI and found it whent better too. I dont think they pay too much attention when putting it all back together....

Jon

Jon
Ive been able to access the starwheel just by lifting up the edge of thre diaphram.
I need you to reiterate again if you can the following as Ive got myself confused.
1. No 5 torque screw Does what? Called what?
2. Rotating diaphram Does what? called what
3. Thumbwheel.....
4. External rear adj.....

What order again?
many thanks
Bazzle

Bazzle

I suggest you read through the description again and it should answer your questions.

Sorry for the delay in replying - i have been away for a couple of weeks !


If you still dont understand, post another reply and I'll see if I can explain it in a different way.
Jon


Thanks again Jon

I went to the link you posted and on their diagram was the answer I needed .

Thanks

bazzle


John

I've been reading with interest this colum and went to autospeed, as you recomended and read the articles there. As I've never been to technecial I've only in the last few years started to fiddle with 200TDI.

I'm keen to do the modifications excluding the bigger intercooler. I say this because in OZ a toyota intercooler is about $A350. I am however going to improve the air flow by re plumbing from the turbo to the inter cooler, primairly remove the flat metal pipe in the center of the offending hose.

I noticed that you adjusted the actuating rod on the 200TDI to bring the boost preasure up to 1 bar. Was there a reason for this as opposed to using an in-line valve?


If you still dont understand, post another reply and I'll see if I can explain it in a different way.
Jon[/B][/QUOTE]

I noticed a few comments in this thread about fuel economy and thought i would stick in my pennies worth i have a 300TDI ES and have upped boost/ max fuel 3/4 turn/ 1/4 a turn on diagphram and fitted a gratech intercooler altogether a different car to drive anyway fuel is running at 26 mpg i have worked out this over 3000miles this is on a mixture off town and fast runs not to bad i thought!

I have just 'tuned' my injector pump, the job was very simple and has made a huge difference to the performance of my 200TDI Disco. The most difficult task was trying to get the hardened metal collar off the full power adjustment screw at rear of the pump. I solved it very simply by slackening off the lock nut and then screwed the whole adjustment screw out of the pump body, COUNTING THE NUMBER OF TURNS as I screwed it out. I was then able to remove the collar with the aid of the angle grinder and the bench vice. My screw turned out 17 turns.
Bob

I have just 'tuned' my injector pump, the job was very simple and has made a huge difference to the performance of my 200TDI Disco. The most difficult task was trying to get the hardened metal collar off the full power adjustment screw at rear of the pump. I solved it very simply by slackening off the lock nut and then screwed the whole adjustment screw out of the pump body, COUNTING THE NUMBER OF TURNS as I screwed it out. I was then able to remove the collar with the aid of the angle grinder and the bench vice. My screw turned out 17 turns.
Bob

I have just 'tuned' my injection pump and it has made a huge difference. Well worth doing.
Just a tip..... To remove the collar from the full power adjustment screw..... Slacken off the lock nut and unscrew the adjusting screw from the body of the pump COUNTING THE NUMBER OF TURNS as you do so. The collar can then be removed in the vice with the help of an angle grinder.
Bob.

I have just 'tuned' my injection pump and it has made a huge difference. Well worth doing.
Just a tip..... To remove the collar from the full power adjustment screw..... Slacken off the lock nut and unscrew the adjusting screw from the body of the pump COUNTING THE NUMBER OF TURNS as you do so. The collar can then be removed in the vice with the help of an angle grinder.
Bob.


Jon,
Sorry to be a bore, but with these alterations with the fuel pump will the vehicle pass a MOT or will it fail. Is this why you state to mark the original settings so that it can be re set to pass.Its not that I am bothered about smoke etc but its just to be forwarned as i have an MOT in a couple of months!!
Tag

Hi to you all.

Thanks for your input.

Tag,

the vehicle 'should' pass the MOT without a problem after doing the tuning mods. BUT if it doesnt, you can reset to original for the MOT and then revert back again - IF you have kept a record of what you have done ! The reason for keeping a note was really to ensure that if what you did wasnt good, you could undo it and try another setting !

Scott,

it is so much simpler to adjust the rod than to add another valve. If you followed the link to the 'Autospeed' site, you will have noticed that site dealt mainly with petrol engines. Diesels dont suffer in quite the same way from the turbo lag, which is the reason they fit a valve to the boost controller or wastegate (it also helps to keep the turbo spinning at an 'on boost' speed when the throttle is closed - diesels dont have a throttle butterfly and so the turbo tends to keep spinning at an 'on boost' speed for longer than a petrol equivalent when you back off the accellerator peddle. In a petrol, closing the throttle suddenly can 'stall' the turbo and it then takes a while to spin up again). Also, the valve was for varying the boost level. This is ok for a petrol, but pointless in a diesel - once you have got the boost pressure as you want it, why change it ?

This can be done by shortening the wastegate rod, its free (yipee !) and maintains a constant setting to which you can match the fuelling on max boost and full power.

In a petrol version with a vairable boost valve, there is often some electronic control that senses the boost and adjusts fuelling to match.

Diesels (such as the earlier 300 TDis (manuals only)(autos have electronic control)and all the 200TDi's) dont have any electronic control and therefore adjusting boost would require a manual adjustment of the fuelling at full power, or you would 'make smoke'. The aneroid adjusts the fuelling to a degree during 'off' to 'on' boost, but doesnt do anything at full power when it has done its stuff!

This is controlled by the full power screw and is set to a fixed 'point'. When you adjust it, you do so by increasing the fuelling and checking the smoke output when at full power (you MUST drive the car to check this - revving it on the drive wont show this at all). Once set it matches the boost. So set the boost first, then play with the max power screw !

Hope this explains it....

Jon


Hi to you all.

Thanks for your input.

Tag,

the vehicle 'should' pass the MOT without a problem after doing the tuning mods. BUT if it doesnt, you can reset to original for the MOT and then revert back again - IF you have kept a record of what you have done ! The reason for keeping a note was really to ensure that if what you did wasnt good, you could undo it and try another setting !

Scott,

it is so much simpler to adjust the rod than to add another valve. If you followed the link to the 'Autospeed' site, you will have noticed that dealt mainly with petrol engines. Diesels dont suffer in quite the same way from the turbo lag, which is the reason they fit a valve to the boost controller or wastegate (it also helps to keep the turbo spinning at an 'on boost' speed when the throttle is closed - diesel dont have a throttle butterfly and so the turbo tends to keep spinning at an 'on boost' speed for longer than a petrol equivalent. In a petrol, closing the throttle suddenly can 'stall' the turbo and it then takes a while to spin up again). Also, the valve was for varying the boost level. This is ok for a petrol, but needless in a diesel - once you have got the boost pressure as you want it, why change it ? This can be done by shortening the wastegate rod, its free (yipee !) and maintains a constant setting to which you can match the fuelling on max boost and full power. In a petrol version with a vairable boost valve, there is often some electronic control that senses the boost and adjusts fuelling to match. Diesels (such as the earlier 300 TDis (manuals only)and all the 200TDis) dont have any electronic control and therefore adjusting boost would require a manual adjustment of the fuelling at full power, or you would 'make smoke'. The aneroid adjusts the fuelling to a degree during 'off' to 'on' boost, but doesnt do anything at full power. This is controlled by the full power screw and is set to a fixed 'point'. When you adjust it, you do so by increasing the fuelling and checking the smoke output when at full power. Once set it matches the boost. So set the boost first, then play with the max power screw !

Hope this explains it....

Jon

robert,

I 've read your post, but havent seen the pictures of the diagramms... where can i get them ?

Jan

Try the following post:
http://members.home....wgtd/vepump.htm

This should take you straight to a picture and other explanations of what is going on - all be it for a VW Golf and not a Landy. The method of operation is the same though.

Jon (NOT 'Robert' !)

Hi Jon,

I don't think I have to tune my disco 200 TDI.
My Disco gets easy over 165 km/h (100m).
It is running over 4000 rpm in 5th gear.
The exhaust gasses are very clean; 0.28 M.

I think I leave it as it is.

Look at www.iwemaenterprise.nl under "our cars".

Regards,

Hugo


i thought it was very expensive to convert diesel engines to lpg and not practical?

Hi Lynall,


Wrong, it's not very expensive to convert diesel engines to lpg.
It's cheap driving, with a lot of power in the engine.

Regards,

Hugo


[This message has been edited by Iwema lpg (edited 04-21-2001).]

Can I convert my '64 2 1/4 petrol to lpg? it has to be very cheap cos I'm skint and new tyres and insurance have broken the bank! This may'nt be the right forum but its lpg!

------------------
'64 SWB 2A


I know its the wrong forum, but its the wrong subject too....!

You can ADD LPG to the Diesel engine for a cleaner burn and more power though. Conversion IS possible but at an uneconomical cost.

Try the following site for more info on ADDING LPG:
[url="http://www.atsturbo.com/index.html"]http://www.atsturbo.com/index.html


Hope you find it of use, and if you do it, write in and let us all know how well it works!

Jon

Hi Jon,

An ATS system is a top end booster LPG injection system.

Our diesel/LPG car is continuously running on LPG, from 700 up to 4250 RPM.

After conversion the car is still able to drive on only diesel, as before.

Regards,

Hugo

Holland


iwema lpg how does it work on lpg trucks you have to lower compression by machining out piston crowns then mod heads to take plugs then some way to fire the plugs and so on
what starts the burn cycle and do you lower comp ratio?

Hi Lynall,

I'm making a web page about the D.F.D. (Dual Fuel Diesel/LPG) system.
The info will include some photos.
It will be soon on www.iwemaenterprise.nl .

Look also in diesel car magazine March 2001(?) For my King Cab on LPG.

Regards,

Hugo,
Holland


So i just take plug off and it`s done do i leave the waste gate hose connected to both end`s.
thanks
curly

Curly

There are several ways of doing it.

1. Easiest / simplest: Unplug the multi plug from the top of the EGR valve and from the vacuum controller (located on the inner wing under the wheel chock / jack). Job done.

2. Remove the EGR valve from the manifold and place a blank (obtainable from LR dealer) under it and then replace the EGR valve - looks like it is still in place and working, but wont do a thing like this! You could also then do the things in 1 above, but there is no need.

3. Remove the EGR valve and just bolt the blank on. Remember to unplug the vacuum valve too. You will need to replace the intercooler to inlet manifold pipe to do this. A bit of 50mm pipe and a replacement rubber tube at a slight angle (for the manifold end - the same as the one on the bottom of the intercooler will do the job)

4. Any of the above but also clean out the inlet manifold - USE RUBBER GLOVES ! Unbolt it and wash it with white spirit, diesel, engine cleaner etc... and work in with a stiff brush. Replace it all shiney and clean ! If replacing the EGR valve, clean out the intercooler to inlet manifold pipe attached to it in the same way. Ensure they are completely dry before replacing !

This should increase mpg marginally, but will give more power and prevent a build up of exhaust carp in the inlet tract.

Jon


curly

NICE ONE THANKS NO 1 & NO 2 I THINK,
CHEERS JON
CURLY

Iwema lpg

Hi Lynall,

I have made the web page about the D.F.D. (Dual Fuel Diesel/LPG) system.
The info includes some photos.

It is on www.iwemaenterprise.nl "high lights".

Look also in diesel car magazine March 2001(?) For my King Cab on LPG.

Regards,

Hugo,

Holland
----------------------------------------------------
iwema amazing!!!!!!!!!!!
thanks for the info

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by curly:
So i just take plug off and it`s done do i leave the waste gate hose connected to both end`s.
thanks
curly
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Curly read your question and Jon's reply on the EGR valve. I'm not sure what your queastion was and am interested, as I'm starting to do the mod
Tony


Keep this forum independent click HERE.

#3 white90

white90

    .

  • Settled In
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 9,649 posts
  • Location:Somerset

Posted 13 August 2005 - 06:23 PM

Pump Diagrams thanks to RPR
Tony


Keep this forum independent click HERE.




4 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 4 guests, 0 anonymous users