rick
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Posts posted by rick
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22 hours ago, roamingyak said:
Adding my own experiences in for good measure
200TDi Defender with a stumpy R380. Always used ATF over 18 years of ownership, and changed it frequently.
I drove down the west coast of Africa, did a major service in Cape Town with a independent Landy workshop. They insisted MTF was the way to go.
Gearbox was really noisy, harder to use, changed it back to ATF within 500 km's and all was fine again.
I'm carrying a fair load and driving in hot climates.It can take a good 800km for the new friction modifiers to displace the old ones when swapping fluids, in the meantime you may get crashing of the synchro's etc.
Having said that R380's can be idiosyncratic but most perform better with a dedicated MTF
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On 7/24/2018 at 7:42 PM, FridgeFreezer said:
Never heard of that one, thought all Sals were the same?
130's and HD110 Sals use heavier wall tube
[edit]Oops, already answered.
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13 hours ago, Daan said:
Anyone on here actually bend an axle?
Daan
Australian built Isuzu powered 110's in Australia bend the front housing just from the cast iron 4cyl lump sitting above.
My old Tdi 130 sported more than 1/2* of negative camber on the front end. At least it was even both sides !
The 130 Sals rear end use 8mm tube instead of 6mm tube for the same reason, and they still pull axle tubes out of the centre when heavily loaded and punished on Australian and African 'roads'
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2 hours ago, neil110 said:
Yes as did the WOLF.
What Land Rover discovered during the WOLF trials ( a friend from uni was on the Land Rover team) was that the Salisbury axle would bend more easily than a Rover axle, under certain circumstances. Hence the reinforced Rover axle cases on the WOLF
I think it was the Sals axle tubes pulling out under chronic overloading, or at least that's what happened here in Oz.
As a consequence the Telstra 130 extended cab TD5's here had heavily trussed Wolf rear ends.
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On 7/13/2018 at 3:46 PM, Simon_CSK said:
They were 18" fitting on the P38 have never seen them on a Disco. I have a set of Hurricane Alloys spare which I think are much better looking and have them on both my Disco and my P38
A lot were sold in Australia with 18's, but I think I've only seen one with the above style rim.
Most people remove them for 16's, mainly for the improved ride as BM mentioned.
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Can second Turners.
I'm on the other side of the world and I bought the head, injectors, pistons/rings from Tuners when I o/hauled my old 300Tdi. -
On 19/05/2018 at 11:17 PM, Tanuki said:
MTF is interesting - it's a "modified friction" oil which means that under some conditions its lubricating-properties are designed to *decrease*.
Think about it - the working of synchros depends on there being friction between the components! A spectacularly-slippery oil disrupts this necessary friction and means the synchros must take longer to bring the gears up to matching-speed before they engage. (This is also why stuff like Molyslip can mess-up synchro operation - it ruins the controlled friction in the synchros).
I don't find problems getting hold of MTF94 for my R380, and it's cheaper (buying in bulk) than any of the 'trick' oils sold to motorsport-types-with-more-money-than-sense.ATF is friction modified, but the friction modifiers used aren't ideal for manual gearbox synchros, they are formulated for wet clutches.
Basically the FM's used in an MTF have a coefficient of friction that increases with decreasing rotational speed, oils like engine oil used in the LT95 actually work the other way around resulting in a stick/slip style situation so you sometimes 'beat' the synchros.
Mostly MTF's will also give better gear/bearing protection too.
In high ambient/high load conditions (eg. Southern Europe, Africa, Australia) ATF's and lighter MTF's can become too thin resulting in bearing rattle and eroded shifting performance.
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On 30/05/2018 at 9:57 PM, Hybrid_From_Hell said:
Happy you posted my video Sir ...I refrain as its a tricky conflict of interest being an Admin here and running a Differential Business !.
To err on the side of caution I rarely will post up anything here contentious for that reason, best safe etc.
As to ATB. Ashcroft are very good. Stunning value and a 3rd of the quaife unit which is very very similar. For your purposes Ashcroft are more than enough.
Points
1. they can sometimes add more transmission noise than an open diff.
2, You REALLy will need to up grade to 23/24 shafts and CVs whilst ashcroft stuff would be nice, backward fitting earlier standard 23 CVs and half shafts would be a huge strength increase
3. run EP90 no special oils a la LSD stuff needed
4. Oil changes are a must and regularly, damage to centres often turns unit to scrap due to the amount of gears in there, spares are minimal often as I say damage = new unit
5. Front axle will feel as if you have low tyre pressures but you will adjust and learn
Nige
Just an adjunct to Nige's post, I'd run a 75W-90 just to ensure you are getting decent oil feed inside the ATB case at temps below normal operating temp.
As mentioned there are 6 helical planetary gears running in pockets inside the case and oil feed may be compromised at high speed with a viscous oil, eg an SAE90 at least until it's up to operating temp.
If you're careful and take a few km to get things warm before running the diff at motorway+ type speeds an EP90 wouldn't be an issue.
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A FWIW, I ran an ATB in the LT230 in my old Defender and IMO it was well worth the $$.
It takes all of the excess backlash out of the t/case, makes the centre diff much, much stronger and on high speed dirt/gravel improves the handling/steering by eliminating the hunting you can get with the open diff (I dislike locking the CDL on dirt, too much understeer for my liking)
One will find its way into the current Disco eventually.
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On 28/01/2018 at 6:51 PM, steve200TDi said:
I also know that you can get different torque converters and this can change how the box reacts, but I need more info to understand the effects!
On the Ashcrofts website for the torque converters they say it is very important to install the converter properly and getting the right depth etc.
Ashcroft's can do an upgraded (larger) low stall converter and a stronger drive plate for the TD5 if it's chipped/modified.
This suits the torque characteristics of the modded engine better as well as being a lot stronger.
Dave has stated in the past that the stock TD5 converter is marginal for a stock engine at the best of times.
If $$ allow they can also do some 4HP24 bits internally to allow the 'box to better handle the power/torque of modified TD5
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Cool trip Boydie, it'll be fun.
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7 hours ago, western said:
LR recommended specs for diesel engines is RES22 OL PD2 or CCMC PD2 or RES 22 OLD5 or CCMC D5 or API CD, taken from my defender workshop manual, doubt that Shell rimula 15/40 oil will do any long term harm.
Hey Ralph, those specs are so old, out of date and superseded I wouldn't use them as a reference for anything these days.
Not having a crack, just a FWIW.
To the OP, just keep driving and don't overthink it.
It's a heavy duty engine oil, ie blended for heavy duty over the road and off road diesels.
The US API CI-4 spec is a few years old now but a very high spec.
European ACEA E7 is a current spec, E5, E3 are a few years old now but all these specs are so much more advanced than what was originally specified.
The API CD spec is decades out of date, most dual rated petrol biased oils are at a minimum API CF or ACEA B4 but personally I prefer dedicated diesel oils, our little diesels are highly stressed and wear metals drop with real diesel engine oils.
If oil consumptions is reduced, that's a bonus, I'd say that oil suits your engine better than what you've been using, although ultimately used oil analysis over a number of oil change periods between the old and new oils is the only way to really now what's going on.
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Viscous fan usually shouldnt be locking at highway cruising speeds , I ran 300tdi 130 DCHCPU in OZ and with aircon on and climbing over the escarpment towing close to 4 ton you could hear the viscous engage and then about 2 mins later release. The temp guage would hardly move noticeably . If the temp guage is staying in normal, and you have checked condenser fan in not rotating wrong way ( not unheard of with sucker fan fitted in blower fan position) then it may be worth trying a different viscous unit , as it may be locking at too low a temp .
Should mention this was in summer in WA type ambient temps
In my experience the airflow throw the Deefer engine bay is ****, it becomes a high pressure zone and so it needs that viscous fan to keep pushing the air out of the engine bay at speed, not necessarily draw the air through the rad.
This has been proven by quite a few here in Australia over many years.
The Tdi or TD5 would start to overheat at highway speeds, checked and replaced the fan clutch and the problem is solved.
A work around is to cut a slot or hole in the side of the guard (not the top, top, the side is a low pressure region, the air flow is really disturbed on top of the guard, it does strange things) and let the hot, high pressure air escape.
The condenser fan on the Oz spec A/C is next to useless, it's justa single Davies Craig 10" fan and only really helps at low speeds.
Again, IME it actually blocks flow at high speed, as does the Oz spec condenser, which has a ridiculously fine fin pitch to get capacity and blocks air flow to the rad and intercooler. The condenser is an aftermarket and off the shelf Sanden part, not something specific to the Defender here on those older models.
In winter I found up to 5* difference in coolant temp between the condenser in place and uninstalled.
And another FWIW, the stock temp gauge is garbage, it has a huge amount of latitude built into it's movement, it's incredibly innacurate and is unduly influenced by the usual Defender **** earths.
A decent aftermarket and preferably mechanical guage will show exactly what's going on, or better still install something like the Madman EMS or Engine Watchdog TM2
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Forgot to take one today.
This isn't the best photo, (it's years old, haven't run BFG's for maybe eight years?) but you can see the RHS mounted at each end of the outrigger.
One day I'll re-jig them so that they are higher and through the side panel.
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Two calcium/calcium Delco's. (640CCA)
They recently replaced two calcium/calcium SuperCharge batteries that were over ten years old.
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I have some RHS bolted to the end of the chassis outriggers.
I should have a photo somewhere, otherwise I'll take one in the morning local time.
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There are three types of transmission fluid, Automatic, Manual and Multigrade.
The Automatic is quite obvious in that it is designed for automatic gear boxes has LOW friction properties as it has to allow for friction clutches and, due to the small orifices within the valve plate, a very low viscosity, typically around 5W.
The second type of transmission fluid is designated Manual, this is normally a semi or full synthetic fluid, again with a fixed viscosity, again around 5W.
The third is a fully synthetic Multigrade fluid which has a low viscosity at both ends of the gearbox normal operating temperature spectrum, it has a low viscosity when cold and as the fluid temperature increases it's metabolic structure changes to become thicker so it actually maintains the original low viscosity.
Both the automatic and manual fluids being a fixed cold temperature viscosity become thinner as their operating temperature increases and therefore have an even lower viscosity as they become hotter.
All three, being transmission fluids are low friction.
The advantage of the more expensive Multigrade is that it is designed to have a constant viscosity at both ends of the operating temperature spectrum.
[snip]Err, no, sorry, that's not how these fluids function at all, and your nomenclature is wrong too.
Firstly, MTF = Manual Trans Fluid, whether it's a 75W, or 75W-80, etc.
That's how the oil companies describe them, check out the PDS from any major.
'Conventional' mineral, semi-synth or synthetic fluids, be they ATF's, Manual Trans fluids (and that includes xW-70/75/80/85/90's) and gear/diff oils are Newtonian in nature regardless of whether they are straight grades or multigrades. ie, as the fluid temp increases their kinematic viscosity decreases.
Multigrades exhibit a wider operating temperature range over a straight grade as they thin less with increasing temperature increase.
That's the only magic. Even multigrades are thicker at 0*C than they are at 40*C and 100*C, much thicker.
The rate of viscosity thinning is usually moderated by viscosity index improvers, specialised polymers that reduce the rate of thinning.
Some high end synthetics have little to none VII's used, but they are the exception, not the rule.
Multigrade oils used in gearboxes, diffs or engines cannot get thicker or even maintain their viscosity as they get hotter ! They get thinner !
It's physics !
eg Redlines MTL is a 75W-80 Manual Trans Fluid.
Its kinematic viscosities are 54.1 cSt @ 40*C and 10.4 cSt @ 100*C.
its viscosity index (VI) is 185.
Plug those numbers into a viscosity index calculator and its viscosity @ 0*C is 554 cSt.
It's become thinner as it gets hotter !
It's just that the rate of thinning is less than if it was a straight grade SAE 80 mineral lube.
If it was an SAE 75W it may be thinner than an SAE 80 @ 100*C or it may meet the SAE 80 viscosity range. eg. Castrol Australia's VMX-80 manual trans fluid is described as an SAE 80W but does in fact meet the SAE 75W-80 viscosity range as it's hot viscosity is 10.5cSt @ 100*C, smack bang in the SAE 80 gear (and SAE 30 engine) oil range.
The only lubricants that are non-Newtonian in nature are specialised silicone based fluids such as used in viscous couplings which increase their kinematic viscosity when sheared (and heated)
I wrote some stuff years ago on base oils, kinematic viscosity, viscosity index improvers (the polymeric thickeners used to reduce the rate of oil thinning as temp increases) here http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=27742&page=2#entry277688 and here http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=27742&page=2#entry277916 and while discussing engine oils, the viscosity characteristics exhibited by ATF's, MTF's and gear oils are the same.
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[snip], because of the internal arrangement of webs within the box oil does not flow very well around it, there was a post on here a while ago suggesting some modifications to improve oil circulation especially to the front part of the box plus rear bearing if you have a high ratio box or a q box with small teeth from memory
[snip]
Rob
I've spoken to Dave Ashcroft re the lube mods they used to do as I was going to do them when I recently rebuilt my LT230 with their ATB centre diff and Maxi Drive low range gears and he said it's very doubtful they are worth the effort, as in his experience they really didn't appear to help.
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I've never heard of Multigrade Transmission Fluid either, but that doesn't mean someone doesn't use that term, just one I'm not familiar with.
Only ever seen Manual Transmission Fluid used, including by Castrol Oz who list Syntrans of various flavours and Syntrax Universal as Manual Transmission Fluids.
And just to upset the apple cart, I love Motul Gear 300 in the R380 which is a (gasp !) 75W-90 !
Shifts fine at -5*C, and no bearing rattle at 35+*C ambients which you even get with decent MTF's such as Castrol Syntrans 75W-85.
You do have to be quick with the 1st-2nd change initially, a little hesitant and it'l baulk or worse, crunch, but within a few shifts it works fine.
ATF is fine at 0-20*C ambient and no heat in the oil, but is too bloody thin in Australia, shifting goes to hell quickly and the gearbox sounds like a bucket of bolts with any decent temp in it, and FWIW I've recorded 75*C and the temp was still climbing within 7km of a highway drive.
Apart from the fact ATF has the wrong friction modifiers for the synchro's to engage properly, and the additive package is weaker than any GL4 MTF so bearings and gears aren't anywhere near as well protected as with any decent MTF of whatever viscosity you choose to run.
Kinematic viscosity does have a big bearing on shiftability when cold (and hot), (the other factor is the additive package, including the level of EP additives, as well as the specific friction modifiers used for synchro hub/clutch engagement) but I'd rather have decent changes when warm and under load and suffer a few potential missed shifts, if indeed they do happen, on a cold morning.
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Nice wee post. There's a fair bit to be said for sedimentors, like you said not everyone cup of tea, but I've only ever had good experiences with them fitted, vastly reducing fuel contamination at the fuel filter end of things.
Ditto, the amount of carp that precipitates out in the sedimeter and doesn't go through to the filter is amazing.
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Ideal is 5/40 but go for it, it's good product.
Why Ian?
Most all 5W-40's use a fair bit of viscosity index improvers (VII's) to get that wide a viscosity spread and most all VII's shear rapidly in use, their kinematic viscosity often geting close to a 5W-30 after 10,000km of use.
They also generally have a fairly high NOAK number, ie. they are fairly volaitile.
Here in Australia there is no need for that wide a viscosity oil, I'm happily using a 10-40 full syn oil (as far as you can call a GroupIII/ester oil full synthetic) as the lowest cranking temp I'll see where I live is -7*C, and a 15w-40 is more than fine at that temp anyway.
Depending on the oil and it's viscosity index, you may find there's bugger all difference in cranking pressure/kinematic viscosity at temps from -5*C and up between a 0/5/10 and 15W-40.
Something like 8 or so years ago I ran some numbers on oils on the AULRO forum and some 5W-40's had a higher viscosity at 0* than one 15W-40, altough admittedly it was an extreme example of a 15W-40 (Redline)
You really only need a 5W-40 if you are starting the engine down around -25C and beyond.
Actually, if you look at the cranking pressures of the 5W-40 vs 10W-40 Valvoline oils, the 10W-40's have a CP of <7000 mPa@-25*C vs <6600mPa@-30*C, which s a good indicator of how cold an ambient you need to make use of the wide viscosity span oils.
Of course a lower pumping pressure can reduce the load on the battery and starter at most sub zero temps too, but it does come down to individual blends.
Serious HDEO's like Delvac 1 5W-40 don't shear in use, I've taken them past 20,000km in TD42T Patrols and the oil was fine when tested, but as an example something like Mobil 1 0W-40 shears pretty rapidly, it then starts to thicken as it oxidises, but that's another discussion.
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I wouldn't stuff around, I'd use Ashcrofts, but if pennies are an issue ATM, I'd wager Bearmach would be reasonable quality, I could never trust anythingm out of a blue box, unless you are dead certain it comes from the OE supplier and is made to the same specs as L/R specify.
I installed Maxi Drive axles and drive flanges in 2002 and have never had to touch them, so it can become a case of you can pay me now or you can pay me later.
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hmm, want one, just a pity that ashcroft didn't mention the possibility when I recently bought a rebuild LT230 from them....
I am thinking of running them on my land rovers in Botswana, we have heavy rigs and tow big trailers in soft sand and our drivers think diff lock is "only for when you get stuck"..... so the front wheels spin a LOT when that td5 sings.....
I am just worried that they will struggle with our extreme heat and extreme loads.
If you can justify the expense, I think the ATB would help a lot, and as I said, it's no where near as fragile as the open centre diff when unlocked and one end spinning.
I fitted a plate betwen the case and sump as you lose a little stiffness with the extended sump, the case may spread under big load.
I pinched the idea from one of the blokes here who has a 6B Cummins in his 101.
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How difficult is it to fit a new centre diff ? Is there bearings to preload ? And is a press required ?
You need to setup the bearing pre-load and running clearances between the drive hub, low and high gears.
A press makes it so much easier, and it's fiddly.
As I fitted Maxi Drive low range gears I had to do a trial build first, then dissamble and reassemble inside the case as the bull gear is too large to fit through the apperture. At least with standard gearing you can slot it in once you've built it on the bench, but getting the bearing pre-load right is a PITA IMO.
Transfer box - Castrol Syntrans or Syntrax?
in Defender Forum (1983 - 2016)
Posted
A 75w-90GL5 is fine in LT230, they come from the factory filled with one!
Good ones are buffered anyway, their copper corrosion rating is usually 1b meaning minimal to no discolouration in a copper corrosion test.