quattro

Car's been off the road, so plenty of time for playing with tunerstudio, etc. Now, I do have a wideband lambda fitted - it's been running a dashboard gauge for a few years now. I have changed the wiring a bit and now have the datalogger wire running to the blue wire on the ECU, so effectively, the ECU is seeing the wideband, narrowband has been unplugged. It's a "Stack" lambda and is linear 0-4V between 10 and 20 AFR. I have read that I should set the switch point to 2V, i.e. half way between the two, but 14.7 AFR would be at 1.88? So should the ego switch point(v) be set to 1.88 or 2? Richard (less confused than I was, but only just )

Yes Nige, I know it's you There was no MSQ with the ECU, but you did email it to me mid September. I did get a spark map with it but it was very mild. This one has been tweaked up a bit with the information I have been reading. It isn't as advanced as I was going to have it, but more so than the one on the MSQ. I was just looking for any opinions on it. Richard

4L C/B Rover V8, 20,000 miles. P6 car, 1,300Kg, manual LT77 2 wheel drive. MS1 V.3, running fuel and spark, bought from Nige. Engine has RP4 cam, tubular headers and full Stainless system, Stage 1 SD1 heads, 35% lightened flywheel, I realise that mimicking a dizzy isn't the ideal way to tune the spark map, but to be honest, it's all I've got. In all of the mountains of information I have read about MS, 75% of it doesn't apply to MS1, and all the other 25% percent says about setting up your spark maps is to do it before VE tuning.

How's this looking? I have toned it down a bit, so thought I could use it as a starting point. Richard

I wouldn't mess about with anything on my say so I'm still part way up a sharp learning curve. I will probably give it a go though, albeit on a very conservative, bit by bit attempt . I don't want to be bringing my pistons home in a jamjar. Richard

I can understand being conservative Jamie, I am not even going to try this until I get a full understanding of it - which I haven't yet I realise Cheesy, that the MS is more refined and a lot more controllable than two interacting mechanical systems, but it should still work on the same principals, only a lot better. The 15KPa that it starts at is vacuum, so the top line of the table i.e. 100KPa is atmospheric pressure, and the 15KPa of vacuum means that the original dizzy would start to add advance when it gets down to the 85KPa level. As it goes down the table it will steadily add more advance until it reached 49KPa (15"Hg of vacuum) where it should have the full 16°. It doesn't add any more advance after this so the bottom part of the table (anything under 49KPa) will be at 16° extra advance. Looking at various ignition maps that I have found, nowhere near this amount of advance is being added, hence my question - Have I got this wrong? Bit confusing this tuning lark Richard

Interesting interpretation, unfortunately not the same as mine The reason the port was moved to the other side of the butterfy was to do with emmision control prior to CAT technology improving, and not anything to do with fuel economy or power. (I have read an awful lot and this seems to be the opinion of many). So I have ignored this bit in my calculations and thoughts. My dizzy had 5 15 8 stamped on it, which apparently means it starts to add advance at 5"hg (15KPa). But my map shows the amount of pressure from 20 up to 100, not vacuum. So I have interpreted this as it starts to add advance when it gets down 15KPa, i.e. when it gets down to 85 on the map. So, no advance at 100 (WOT), then starting to add from 85 down to 15"hg (51KPa) so 49 on the map. At 49KPa (on the map) it would have added 8°of dizzy angle, so 16° crank angle, and below 49 it adds no more advance. So, why are the spark maps I have been studying not 16° higher under 50KPa than they are at 100KPa? I know there is a difference between distributors and EDIS, but this seems to be huge difference and I was just wondering - why? Or have I got it all wrong? Richard

The vacuum advance works with the original distributor and advances the timing when there is a lot of vacuum, i.e. during tickover or cruise. It advances the timing by around 16 deg to start the burn quicker as there will be a leaner mixture at very low throttle openings. Leaner fuel mixture needs more time to burn. If it advances the ignition by that much using the dizzy, why don't we advance the timing on our spark map by that much? From what I can work out, it operates between 50 and 85 KPa. Above 85 it's inoperative, it advances around 16 deg at 50 and below. I would assume it's pretty much linear between 85 and 50. Just curious or confused

Car is off the road at the moment so I have been reading up and up and up on tuning stuff, and the theory behind it all. One thing that is confusing me is vacuum advance. The vacuum advance unit on a Rover V8 gives 8 deg at the distributor (16 deg at the crankshaft). Of all the spark maps I have found on here, the wild ones (use at your own risk and careful not to melt your engine) only advance around 10 deg between WOT and overrun, and the mild ones only around 5 deg. Why aren't they up at the 16 deg mark? I have a feeling I am missing something here and am asking a stupid question Richard

Been doing some tuning and some miles and with a bit of tweaking here and there, the juddering seems to have gone Popped into the garage and filled up again and have just worked out the mpg for the last two weeks - 18.4 Not too disappointed though as that does include driving regularly from tickover up to the redline, sitting in the garage playing with tickover settings, data logging acceleration and deceleration profiles, driving without overun settings, sitting in rush hour traffic driving to work, and generally driving in the most uneconomical ways possible. Let's hope the next few weeks will be better I must say though that the MS seems to have brought together all of the tuning goodies that Sparky came with, (Stage one heads, RP4 cam, tubular headers, lightened flywheel, etc) and runs well with them, unlike the weber which never really worked 100%. He did go very well, but nothing like now; the Megasquirt has really unleashed his full potential. (or has it - it might get better ) So, very pleased with the transformation, but what a job. Richard

Well, I didn't get any data logging last weekend as when I went into the garage, I could smell petrol, so that took most of the week and now I still think I can smell it, but am not sure. Too long sniffing for it now I just think I can smell it, or ..... I have been playing with the timing, have noticed that it ticks over better with 9 degrees of advance. So it's now running with a block of 9 degrees all around the tick over bins. It's actually running quite well, certainly better than when I was running the weber, but is does still have the shuddering. It does seem to be between cruise and overrun, and causes most problems when cruising along slightly downhill, as if it's having problems changing from cruise to overrun. I have attached a datalog any ideas? Cheers, Richard 2016-10-24_20.09.52.msl

I'm going to get out tomorrow and do some data logging, will try to get the juddering on it. What's the best length of time for a log? Richard

Well, that was a week that was Drove to work Tuesday morning, stopped for fuel, everything going well. Two miles down the road, car stops with just enough electrical power to run the radio. Great fun pushing it off the inside lane of a roundabout in the rush hour. The battery had failed, totally and instantly. Never heard of that happening before, and the first ever time that my P6 has let me down Although tuning is going fairly well, I have to admit taking it to a rolling road and getting some help with it (am I still allowed on here now ? ) It's still not perfect, and seems to judder along when cruising, but it does pull like a train under acceleration . BHP is apparently 210.9 at the flywheel, with 247 lb/ft of torque, so not too bad. Just need to get the juddering sorted, then work out how to get the tacho to work. Richard

I am jealous . I have to be careful getting close to any quattros at car shows as I tend to drool on them and it upsets the owners The only other classic vehicle that I remember yearning for as a youth, was the Kawasaki Z1. And I did actually manage to get hold of one a couple of years ago, or rather something very close. It looked like this, But when I had finished with it, I might try to megasquirt it if I ever get the hang of the system on the Rover. (Trying to bring the thread back to Megasquirt to avoid it being deleted ) Richard

ermm.... well....... when I first started on forums, I owned an A4 quattro with the 2.8L V6 petrol engine, so not really a quattro as people think, i.e. the original rally monster. I have since then, owned a 2.4 A6 quattro (don't buy one of these ), a 2.7L Twin turbo A6 quattro(scary), and my current daily driver, a 3.0TDi A6 quattro avant which is frankly Awesome. Mines the one on the left: - So, in answer to your question, yes, and no, but I might get one yet PS, quattro doesn't have a capital letter for some reason ?

Tuning's going well, learning more all the time and the car is now pulling strongly right up to the where I think the red line is. The tacho isn't working yet so I am having to guess, so am a little cautious. Three small problems have arisen though. Firstly, the dip stick comes up in the middle of the engine on a P6B, right under the throttle body. So being a clever dick I just turned the P clip that held it onto the rocker around so it came up further forward. It still hit the air flow tube so I put the actual dipstick in back to front. I did notice a clicking noise when I started the car for the first time, and it took me a while to work out that it was the dipstick (it didn't do it when I took it out). The only thing it can be is the crankshaft hitting it as it's in at the wrong angle I eventually took it out, cut the top off, then rebent what was left to form a new top. Dinky dipstick doesn't click, but I may have to take the elbow off to check the oil. Secondly the MAT sensor has punched a hole in the underbonnet sound insulation, it's simply sits too high. I have had to turn the air flow tube round a few degrees, although the build manual said it had to go at the top. Now it turns out that the air filter, which did look too big, is too big and also fouls the underbonnet sound proofing. Smaller one ordered, Then hopefully all will be well

I messed aro..... ermm adjusted it prior to reading this, and dropped it to 1,500rpm, which actually helped. Didn't occur to me to turn it off I lowered the KPa and TPS figures a bit as well. Went off for a drive round last night with the autotune working away, and it did improve the driveability quite quickly, until 30 minutes in a suicide jockey in a corsa decided red lights didn't apply to him. I rather stupidly thought green lights meant I could carry on, and so did the chap in the left hand filter lane who turned left and blocked the corsa, who then managed to stop right across the road in front of me! Luckily P6s have awesome brakes and I stopped dead in my tracks. I lost all of the data though as the laptop ended up in the footwell, disconnected. I pulled around the corner and stopped to get all of the stuff back onto the seat, and the chap who had slid down the road behind me (sideways) stopped behind me, walked up to my car and asked me the stupidest question I have heard this year. "Did you see that idiot in the corsa?" He then proceeded to tell me his life story, which included his memories of P6s in his early life, discussion on how long I had owned the car, what had I done to it, what's a '4000S' etc etc. Another half hour past and by the time he had gone, the battery in the laptop had almost died, so I went home. I'll give it another go soon

Been reading so much my eyes hurt Most of what I read says to cut the fuel at one RPM then start it at another. E.g. turn off at 1,500 RPM and restart at 1,100. But I can't work out how to do that as I have only one box to put the RPM in Is this as different type of MS, or am I missing something here? Richard

MOT? Passed Advisories? None Now, on the way to work with autotune happily changing everything it looks at, I notice that when I let off the throttle and coast, the AFR goes above 16?* Is this right? When I use the throttle again it goes back to 13-14.5, but not very smoothly. Will this improve with use, or do I need to do something? Richard *Years ago I fitted a WB just below the N/S collector to help tune the Weber, it goes from 10 - 16. It's still there just running a gauge on the dash.

Cheers Bowie, I'll start reading up on that bit then

One question, does autotune tune the spark map? Or is it a matter of playing around with it? Richard

Tried loads of stuff, reinstalled the adapter driver, shook fist at it, unplugged everything including the car battery, tried megatune, scratched head, and it just came on - and worked Problem is, I don't know what the hell was wrong with it! Never mind, its running and quite well too. I will book an MOT asap and hopefully it will pass and I can get out on the road, tuning Richard

I've plugged the serial adapter in, and had a look at it on screen. It's still on com port 3 and says its working correctly. Unplug it and this info disappears, so that seems correct. I've tried to count the clicks, they're around 4 per second, but it does as you say, seem to be trying to connect, but something somewhere doesn't want to. I have reloaded the msq from Nige, so basically restored it to the base figures, but it still says it's Not Connected so I can't burn that to the ECU. I'll try it with Megatune later, see if that will talk to the ECU. Two things I have done - don't know if they're important. 1/. When installing the ECU, I did plug and unplug it a lot to make sure it was in the right place. During one of these plugging ins, I did manage to bend one of the pins on the socket. I just bent it back carefully and it seemed fine. Looking at the wiring diagram, this was pin 37 which is the earth that fires the fuel relay 2/. I deleted (saved to separate HD) a huge amount of picture, files, etc to make the 'puter run faster. I am just using this laptop for megasquirt now, nothing else. I then defragmented the HD and ran the disc cleanup, removing temp files etc. This was just prior to going out and running tunerstudio. Richard

Well, that could have gone better Started the engine and it hunts when cold, so I let it warm up. Ticking over ok when hot. Drove up the drive, but I did have to control the revs well with the throttle to keep it going. Clicked on the auto tune and it did start to get easier. Then it started getting difficult to keep the engine running, and it would die if I pushed the clutch in, so back to the garage. Engine died just outside of the garage then refused to start, so I pushed the car in. There was a box which came up on tunerstudio saying that stopping the session would lose all of the data - so I clicked ok, as I had no choice. Turned the ignition back on so that I could try and find out what happened but the tunerstudio stayed greyed out and said it was Not Connected. Tried starting the car anyway, but to no avail. So, out with the electrical tester. I turned on the ignition and could hear a quiet tapping coming from the back of the car. I put it down to the fuel circulating, but it got a lot louder when I pulled the main relay to check the wiring. I put the relay back and went to the back of the car to find the light tapping coming from the fuel relay. Changed the relay for another one, still clicks without connecting. So I have no fuel pump and no coils, possibly why it won't start I did put my hand on the ECU and main plug to check it wasn't hot - it wasn't. I have now been back out to see if it still does it (about an hour later) and the relay still clicks, but is now louder. Any ideas? On a positive note, I have driven the car with the megasquirt fitted, and I have found the water leak and fixed that. Richard

Cheers Charlie, but I won't be putting stop-leak in there Not quite sure what you're saying there FF. How do you adjust the trim value? Richard