SenseMaker2013

AC, DC..... etc. ... all these short cuts... very boring, isnt it ? :-) Its just something for insiders, but does not attract new customers, in my understanding. Nowadays DC might stand for "Digital Culture"... Remembers me little bit the legendary Citroen DS ( http://www.youtube.com/channel/HCoe8qXpIE9hY) Its really boring to see the companies using such numbers, e.g. Mazda 3/6, BMW 3/5/6/7 or Mercedes 190/200/230/280... etc. .... Ok, it seems a kind of tradition. So it is and in the head of the car engineers it probably must be. But for getting new consumers/buyers/fans its no really attractive, I think. Car names like "Mini", Polo, Golf etc. ... are much more easier to handle in human's brain. Personally I'd prefer a real cool name, not fantasy names as very often the marketing gurus create as an "artifical wording" which can be spoken in any languages around the globe. Specific companies doing such services let pay their "brains" at the prize o round about 100,000 Euros only for the name which includes a global research if this name is registrated as a trade mark already. If a car like the LR has an identity and is called "Defender" (which sounds little bit military vocabulary) it says much more as it evokes some pics in the "head cinema". The type description 90/110 or 130 only can complete the basic name to give an idea about the chassis. So to where shall LR go now ? From Defender to Offender to .... ? - It depends on the look & feel of the new design... if its more elegant, the sound of the spoken name should represent it. If it has a more "bully" look, the name can be something more roughly. Personally my opinion about the new design: It just follow a trend of the other SUVs. Take a Porsche Cayenne or BMW MX5 they all represent this "muscle game" thing. I dont like it as its fake. Big heavy weight cars for highspeed on the autobahn. Has nothing to do with Off-Road in my sense, it pretends to be offroad. For the new LR it seems it must be something with "...fender" to keep up the tradition alive. - To do little bit brainstorming: Fender itself is a guitar brand beside the name for a part of a vehicle ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fender_(vehicle) )... technically it is used for protecting yachts against damaging its coat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fender_(boating) ). So what kind of Fender, what kind of "protective habit" could be expressed ? - In our times where human race is destroying the planet by its heavily population and energy consukption it might be something like Ecofender or Envirofender. :-) (Rec.: EcoFender is already a registrated Trademark. So thats gone.) LR should do a "name giving & design competition" gobally via Internet to let vote the people about what the future might become... (Rec.: Maybe it happened as I dont follow in details the LR activities ??????) VW did this marketing with its "New Beetle" version of a 1.8 Turbo, before starting the production. They participated people around the globe via Internet and created a community environment in 1999 with the Turbonium website (long (less 4-5 years) before the term "Social media" came up). http://www.urlwire.com/news/063099.html In the WayBackMashine of Achive.org you can see the old versions of this Beetle website which existed between 1999 and 2004 http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.turbonium.com

... have thought that too. Needs a weekend seminare ;-) (*joking*). Another aspect is that motsly outside you cannot clean all parts. So it might become little bit skinky during a 3-4 weeks trip... Its essential to clean all very well, otherwise this set in the car (under the bed) does not make fun. :-) --- PS: I nearby cannot imagine, that the majority of women like that kind of setup... nowadays the expecation of having a leasure time and luxury around is very common. Only some few "country girls" probably will like that.

Okeys... I give you some more headaque and sleepless night, as so many things are wrong on the Internet. Ever heard about "Life Time Oil" ? - No more Oil exchange - even without using a Bypass oil filter ? Read this: http://www.lifetime24.com/index.php/en/ If you want know more about, contact them directly, otherwise you get the risk to meet some Internet fools: http://www.lifetime24.com/index.php/en/inquiry-for-oil The solution offered by LifeTime was proofed critically by one of these neutral laboratories, its name WearCheck... http://www.wearcheck.com/ Same opinion there. No oil exchange required. Easily the modern oils can be used for 100,000 km (without using a bypass oil filter). Lifetime24 was able to contract ALLIANZ ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allianz ) one of the world biggest insurances for getting a police to protect customer's damages. The contract was proofen by my TV colleagues of ZDF. - LifeTime is servicing customers since more than 10 years, and never one of these customers ever had an engine damage, inspite all never changed their oil after the 1st filling by LifeTime Oil. So enjoy your sleepless nights finding some more fools on the Web who tell you contradictive nonsense about necessarily oil exchanges. :-)

I didnt say anything against it ,did I ? - I learn quickly.... so I went on with my following-up question: Whats about "used cars" ? I dont think, if you install a filter on such one, it created warantee problems. Or ?

Personally I prefer pure cars.... where you have to press the button to start the engine. It doesnt need lots of more. And not all this stuff inside what cars carry around these days become more heavy with all the electronic comfort devices inside therefore the new car models dont come down with fuel consumption (see Golf 7). Sure... for the "normal car consumer" its a nice gimmick to have such LED controls, GPS navigator to tell him or her when to turn right or left etc. ... Do this, do that, let be this, let be that... no doubt, for the masses of car owners its something to keep them in their comfort zones. How fare we want go with that ??? - As soon all cars are setup with Internet connection, we will get sms then in the car to be remembered that we might visit the next BMW exhebition round corner to do test driving with the new car model, and same being rememberd to visit the garage for full inspection. - How fare shall all this go ? I am not here to speak for the masses. If I buy a car, I overtake the responsability for everything, as you said some different details one must keep in mind and eye. On my own I experienced to handle vehicles as I was a 4x4 truck driver and radio operator at military. I went through an intensive training of all what you are talking about inclusive gear and brake oil exchange etc. ... I dont expect from normal people that they know how to do even an oil exchange, which is very simple indeed and can be done by everybody. If they want have a life with all that control instruments around telling how to be, what to be, so it is. But this does not mean, that I give applaus to the trends we have in our modern life. More simple, more better, thats my understanding. For our media project I was requesting a proposal by MAN. The sales manager told me couple of weeks ago: Dont buy a truck of 2014 as it has the Euro6 norm engine. Its too modern, and cant be maintained by many garages in Europe. Too much electronics.... so better buy the old one. You see.... our life becomes more and more complexe and we move into a more heavily dependency. - Is that good for anybody ? A car is still a car (and still should be). It has an engine, a chassis and 5 wheels (4 tires + 1 steering wheel). Thats the core of any car. All the gimmicks around arent for anything real good. A car has to bring me from A to B safely... Its good to have airbags and a safety belt, no doubt. But it does not need to have GPS as one still can train his/her brain to use a map, or winter heating system to warm up the car by time alarm, screens for DVD players etc. ... You might remember the discussions about when computers came up at the beginning of the 90th. There existed prognosis about that we would live in paper free offices and we would become more "eco friendly" killing less trees. The opposite happened. More than ever we have paper consumption as soon the good printers came up, 1st as black/white laser printers midth the 90th and meanwhile top multifunctional printers at lowest prizes of less than 100 Euros. We humans always can expand our lifes into more modernity... its nearby endless. One day you will get beep alarms in you textiles as they became intelligent and communicate with your car so the jacket will tell you that you have to bring your car to the garage for full inspection... More intelligence one has, more crazy ideas one can create by creativity.... but that does not mean its for anything real good ! Its just for keeping our economic system running... without giving real sense.

It was the 80th... fare before the European Union... believe me. Only available by BMW. My uncle Max (may he rest in peace) worked all his life for BMW, and as he was married with BMW since end of 2nd worldwar naturally by his passion for his employer he drove all his life only BMWs, starting with BMW motor bikes and later cars.... :-) As Bavarian on my own I have nothing against BMW. :-) But I dont make me blind about the reality as it had been. Some might feel such control systems as something positive, but not me. If I know that I have to do inspection small every 10,000km and every 20,000km the big inspection. Its enough for me to know. A regularly look under the hood of the car tells me all what I must know. If people become too lazy for doing that they shall be happy with such LED controls. Its not my understanding about having a life lead by self control. Might be today with the European Union, that this kind of monopolist habit is forbidden, you might be right for 21st century that some reglementations by EU parliament dont allow it anymore. :-)

... guys, guys, guys.... what are you doing ? - Seems you have experiences with African Scams... Poor boys. How much money you lost till today ? As we like to say: Burnt childs like to avoid water. I understand now. You have my fully empathies :-)

@BogMonster: As it seems you are the expert for waranty cases... so one question: What about "used cars" ? - I suppose many of the folks here only can afford to buy a used vehicle (Landrover, RangeRover whatever). If you buy a car with 100,000 km 2nd or third hand built in 2004 nobody cares anymore about warantees. The new car owner of this used vehicle is totally free to do what he likes to do. I tell you by experience what I have seen by rent-a-car, like Hertz I worked for as a hiker while I was student. In the 80th came up the maintenance control by BMW. Even for the smaller models of the 3-series. It had been a LED row, so fare I remember from Green to Yellow to Red. Looked like this: So driving a BMW seemed to become very easy for the owner as he hadnt to keep in mind the intervals for his car checks, oil exchanges etc. ... That time BMWs had been very sensitive with oil... remember the blue smoke they blown out shifting the geer. A BMW driver just kept watching the LED warning and as soon it moved into the direction of red, he fixed a date with the auto garage (BMW contracted dealer) to maintain his car. So less wanted it BMW to keep its customers under control. When these LED controls came up, it was only possible by BMW to delete the warning. It made a driver very nervious to see it in the display. He was forced by BMW like "Big brother is watching you" method. Very soon after this maintenance control was introduced some clever folks developed tools you could buy for deleting this alarm as it was clear that mainly profit thinking by BMW itself was behind. It had no logical reasons to force the BMW owners so heavily and so strictly. A concrete example: The Rent-A-Car company Hertz I worked for in my student times had very often this situation, that it should send its BMWs into the garage having the LED warning in the Red zone. On the other hand, customers stood at the counter and wanted rent a BMW. So what did the Hertz bosses ? - They just went to the garage sending a hiker like me and there BMW used an electronic tool to connect with the car, pressed the button and the alarm disappeared. The hiker drove the car back and it went into the rent contract and on the road back, without maintenance. Clearly to say: the BWM car was not maintained, as it has to make money for Hertz. Believe me, a big rent-a-car company like Hertz (in the 80th it had been the world biggest) isnt so foolish to take the risk to loose warantees given by BMW. They dealt it flexible and individually with BMW. Hertz had BMW in hands, as BMW wanted sell huge numbers of new BMWs to Hertz. So Hertz defined the rules, and BMW accepted. As soon as the control tools were available in the market the Hertz company bought one on its own in every Hertz station as you know at the airports, so they pressed the button on their own to reset the alarm back to neutral. Quick and simple done. In my understanding: It was just a trick by BMW itself to keep the buyers under control... all works by fear like politicans do. Today such warnings look more elegant... but in princips its the same thinking behind of the car companies: keep control about the car owner and push him/her into the garage as the main business today is made with maintenance and repair business (less so it is in the segment of trucks so fare I know).

it not, read my former comment up.... hey guys, where is your passion for a good idea ?????? We are not here in a "dry seminar" about some boring stuff... missing passion for something is typically nowadays, pretending to be cool. I am not like such guys.... I like the idea of a bypass filter, thats it. And we all know how petrol industries is tricking us (just see the heavily increasing prizes at the petrol stations which says it all). If you dont believe in things, you cannot stand for it. So I do.... generally I think, a bypass filter like Frantz or the other brands makes sense. All those guys here giving unrational critics are mainly driven by fears. I have learnt a lot here in this thread by qualified comments like Tanuki, tacr2man and others have given, no doubt. (Tks guys). We have to come free of oil dependency, we have to be more environment friendly. But what I hear of most guys here: follow what the automotive industries is telling you. Keep your money in the pocket for such a bypass filter. What nonsense attitude as we know proofed how the car concerns and petrol companies manipulate consumer's mind. Become more critically, but same become more passionate for what you believe in.... that has nothing to do with spamming. I stand for the idea of a Bypass filter... as I dont know enough about, I like to share a critical discussion about it to learn more in details for making the decision if I should install one. Thats all. So keep going giving a qualified input, stop yealing around about spamming, bla, bla, bla.... its fare away from what the discussion needs about bypass filters. But dont expect from me, only because one says "B" here, that I follow to believe its "B" (a methapher). Keep going learning from reality ! - And change this world into a better place. Exchanging oil every 10-15,000 km definitely is a total nonsense only because its written in the handbook. Thats boring middle class thinking and deplaced in a Forum for 4x4 as most of you guys bought used Landrovers (Hands up who could afford to buy a new Landrover !!!). - Every better solution than stupid oil exchange (with the attitude: make it dirty, after its dirty throw it quickly away) is welcome to be shared here by experienced people and the so called "experts" (by sure I am not as I only can learn from more experienced ones). In that sense: Keep posting ! ----------- PS: By profession I am cultural journalist. I dont sell filters, I dont own filters, I even dont own a car privately as it was not necessary as I have my own recording studio in my home office as I am not one of these fools driving daily 3 hours to work and back home. - We are in midth the plannings of a setup for a media production vehicle. Thats all behind why I go into this thematic (heavily). - And of course, the topic title was provocative !!! What else works better :-) But if you want send me your money, no problem.... I take it ! Can give you a PayPal account. *laugh* We are working on a NGO (foundation) for offering cost free music therapy to people of social weak classes.... so every donation is very welcomed. Instead spending it for a bypass oil filter give it to me we can do something good to people by music :-)

I have wondered, too about the time... so it is, as the official calculation popped up today on PS's website with 48.0 minutes each calculated with 50 Euro Cents. If you'd calculate only ten minutes of a regular Volkswagen Workshop they have put in Germany on the bill in 2012 something between 90 to 120 Euros/hr inclusive vat. At the end its nearby the same prize you'd pay to PitStop. :-)

AMSOIL, one of the producer of bypass filter systems is taking this aspect seriously since nearby 10 years... To understand what you want tell me/us here I have looked around. DSI in Belgium is describing a measurement method about dillution which makes it little bit more clear for "greenhorns" :-) DSI is even offering even onboard installations for passanger vehicles.

@Sheffield: As you describe it would give a picture, that the main job of filtering is done by the old filter. Its not that way... Effectively the filtering process is done by the Frantz Oil Filter (or any of the other products for bypass oil filter systems in the market). To give a more clear picture by the amount of cleaning capacity. The oil filtered through the Frantz is depending on the temperature. So long the engine and oil is cold, its round about 1-2 cups / min roughly. By increasing temperature the speed of filtered volume climbs up, its round about 5-6 cups per minute then. If you calculate as an example a size of 5-quart crankcase (Rec.: many car engines have a size between 4.5 or 5.0 quarts) the time frame given is round about 6-7 minutes for 99% of the whole oil is going through the Frantz. So the cleaning procedure and cycles by Frantz are very effective and intensively. So its not like that over a time of 3-4 hours the old filter is working mainly on the filtering job and maybe 1/2 hour overtakes the Frantz filter the job... The main filter by quality will be the Frantz Filter, generally. This filter system does not care about how dirty the original one is. Theoretically you could dismount the old filter, but as mentioned earlier, its just more the legal aspect behind to keep it screwed: So long you dont change any structure of the original mashine, no company of car producers can harm you and fail the warranty. If you need a higher capacity of filtering by Frantz you can fix two parallel filters.... so the filtering/cleaning process is increasing as seen in following example. In the pics you see a 1999 Peterbilt Truck (with a 3406E Caterpillar Engine (the yellow one just to get an idea about the huge size of the block)); As you can see clearly the installation was done as "Tandem". The oil volume which must be cleaned is round about 44 quarts. With this use of two Frantz Oil Filters it hasnt any (negative) effect onto the oil pressure, important for the truck driver to feel safely on the street as this engine runs3,500-4,000 miles - per week. Such a truck runs easily 120,000 miles with the same oil by using a bypass system like the Frantz oil filter. Not theoretically, the driver of this Peterbuilt is doing it practially. In Europe the average distance driven per year by car is 14,000km (see ACEA statistics). This means the European car drivers could drive theoretically 8-9 years with one oil filling. What an immense reduction of oil consumption. In other words as you can see with the ACEA statistics. The average age of a car in Europe is of 8 years.... this means an owner just fills his car one time with oil, and only need to completes the reduced volume which is taken away by the filter during the exchange of the Toilette Paper filter, round about every 10,000 km. Thats it. Interesting the economical aspect: average costs for every 10,000 miles regular oil change for this truck owner: $140.00-180.00 plus extra up to 2 working hours for the maintenance. The total cost reduction for this truck measured was round about $1,500.00 over a distance of 220,000 driven miles. The maintenance time reduced down to 15 minutes to change both filter elements and adding two quarts of new oil to the system as naturally the filter elements take little bit oil volume away. You could calculate it further on and more radically: expand the tandem solution to a triple (with a 3rd filter) and the exchange rate of the filter elements extend to plus 30% range of miles as its still the same amount of oil to clean and the same amount of dirt. The Peterbilt example is just an extreme form of use from perspective of a normal private car owner... I think, it shows how it can work and how it does its job in the reality. Why shouldnt normal car drivers not learn from road experts ? Truckers depend economically probably more heavily on their vehicle than a normal car owner... so they proof more critically what they tune in or expand in their setup. If it works for truckers, it works double safe for normal drivers. Why not avoiding to damage the environment by a highly oil consumption ? The Frantz Oil Filter system can be overtaken in every new car, maybe needs little bit screwing with the relevant adapters. So in princips its a one time investment of only 220 Euros round about, and it let keep the car owners hands more clean by sure. So I would see it...

... just checked what the prizes are for an Oil exchange (oil itself inclusive new Filter). I think, some of you might have heard of PitStop, its a Franchise company existing in Germany. It was founded in 1970 in Berlin and grew to a network of 330 filiates in 230 cities servicing annually more than 1 million clients... The prize offer by Pitstop as you can calculate it on their website for a Landrover Defender TDI 2.5 is 143.14 Euros inclusive Vat ------------------------------------------------------- Oil... 8.2 Litres (Castrol Magnatec 5W-30 A1) at a prize of 12.95 Euros / Litre = 106.19 EUros net Filter... 1x MANN at a prize of 12.95 Euros net Oil and filter exchange: 48 minutes working time = 24.00 Euros net Not everybody has the time to do oil exchange by him or herself... so expanding the intervals with a bypass filter makes sense in my understanding for reducing the costs and oil consumption.

Never tested before a FrantzF for spam filtering... for that only some longer experiences with Avira Filter :-)

If you want wait 10-15 years.... okeys.... :-) I am in the process to invest in a vehicle.... so better learning before (from others, e.g. here in the forum) than knowing too late having made a mistake. - Or you pay me for this 500 Tmiles check as wished... then its not my own risk but I'd be willing to give you continuously status updates ------- PS: To make it clear. I am not a sales man of Frantz Oil Filters :-) I just pick this up as I know little bit more about it than about other brands which produce such kind of bypass filters. So dont understand my thread as spamming, advertising etc. ..... Frantz just might be seen as a "representative candidate" for all the other brands existing in the market (eg AMSOIL, Pirtek, Triple etc. ...). If anybody here has experiences with some of the other companies, always welcome. :-)