disconc
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Posts posted by disconc
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Hi Boys,
thank you for your feedback. Every bit of information gives food for though on this matter
Cheers
Erik.
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Hi Nigel :-)
thanks for your feedback and knowledge.
Sorry to repeat differently what you said, but this is just for me to try and see if I understand your explanations... as I am not a native english speaker and I might have misunderstood something.
Ok, so we need to be very carreful about the TPS calibration.
When idling, right foot off, TPS calibrated, I should look for the lowest TPS value read in realtime in megatune, engine warm, in neutral and also with gear engaged.
(in theory should be the same, as no one is touching the throttle... but your trustfull field experience shows this could happen not to be true)
Then the TPS threshold should be set about 10 pts higher than that for a start.
As I understand that the closed loop is only active if the real TPS value in realtime (with other conditions) gets below the TPS threshold set in PWM closed loop settings.
So for some reason, engaging drive on an auto might make the TPS move up (?) then de-activate the closed loop if moving higher than set threshold ...
Am I right in thinking that ?
Many thanks again
Cheers
Erik.
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Hi Jeff,
thanks again for your feedback on the PWM closed loop idle matter. I understand what you mean.
When the autobox engage in drive, the rpm will drop, and then closed loop will rise them...
Anyone around here running closed loop idle with an autobox could jump in with his experience and if successfull, settings to fiddle with in PWM closed loop idle to be compatible with the autobox specific way of life :-)
Deadband maybe ?
Thanks again
Erik.
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Hi Mr Fridge
thank you very much for your feedback.
Best regards
Erik.
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Hi guys,
anyone willing to share his knowledge/knowhow/experience on the subjects above and MS... to help a newbie... Pleeaase :-))
Thanks in advance.
Regards
Erik.
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Greetings from the south pacific everyone !
I am taking my time, but I am gathering the most possible parts and informations before jumping in the megasquirt 1 & EDIS world :-)
I have read the saga thread which is really interesting, and quite a few others, but I have yet a few questions for the MS experienced users :
1°) VE and timing maps wise, are there some adjustments more sensible/specific if the standard 3.9 is with an autobox rather than a manual ?
I remember in a thread someone asking for a map, and Nige asking if manual or auto ?
I would be very gratefull if someone could send me pics of both maps with req_fuel and/or a MS1 029v with EDIS msq for a standard 3.9 with AUTOBOX then, or tell me what I should take care when adjusting maps if with an autobox.
2°) It was very interesting to read Ian and Nige explanations on their PWM closed loop idle.
With autobox, A/C and a winch, closed loop idle is definitely needed I think.
Now, I am missing a few things.
- as these informations are now close to 4 years old, Ian's post #180 / #186 are missing the posted images, so we do not know the settings used to try understand and compare with Nige's pwm post #221.
If someone have them at hand somewhere, it would be great .
- in the same idea, after nearly 4 years using pwm idle closed loop settings, Ian, Nige and others, how is it going ?
Have you tweaked the settings more than in the posts above ?
With nowadays knowledge, what would be your recommended settings for PWM closed loop idle for a standard 3.9 with AUTOBOX ?
and what is your updated understanding of the related PWM CLI settings and their effects ?
3°) I have no ability to do welding on the manifold, so I have made a little bracket out of aluminium angle, and plan to mount the IAT sensor on this inside the square type airbox, above the air filter, just at the mouth of the output of the airbox.
Doing this will be quite easy for my skills, I hope this will also save me a bit of heatsoak, and it will measure the air which is indeed leaving the airbox to enter the old AFM and the engine. SHouldn't be too wrong ?
(oh, and the Wire output form the airbox will be done with a PG7 waterproof gland.)
What you guys think of this idea ?
4°) In a near future, I plan to add a snorkel also... do you think it would affect the tuning ? If so, maybe would it be a good idea to install the snorkel before tuning ??
Sorry for all these questions, and thank you in advance for your help.
I will not have anyone around me here to get a help on all that, so your feedbacks will be a must !
I hesitated to open a new thread just for asking these questions and decided to add my post here. If not the correct thread, I am sorry.
Cheers
Erik.
Willing to megasquirt a V8 in New Caledonia :-)
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Hi guys,
I was a bit short on time today, so I did everything in one operation... so the shame (read stupid) part of it, is I do not know which operation seems to have improved things...
Here is all things done :
-> engine fully warmed, plugged both sides of hose, stepper to plenum, and checked base idle (only dash tacho, even if not accurate, it is all I have) : just in the middle between 500 and 750. So quite close to 600, which seems great.
-> removed the stepper : the plunger was shining clean !!! damn'it. Never mind, soaked in WD40 and a little cleaning with tooth brush.
The plenum housing side where plunger rest was like covered with a black powder (like gun powder), but not sticky... Cleaned with carb cleaner and rag. Refit.
-> removed rocker cover breather vapor trap, and cleaned it
-> removed all the breather hoses, including the little Tee, up to the plenum and cleaned everything with carb cleaner. The little side of the TEE was quite filled of sooth
-> tried to clean the area were the butterfly close on the plenum
-> checked the gap between butterfly and plenum with a piece of paper. On the bottom, no gap at all, but on the 9 to 12 o'clock part of the disk, I can feel the strip of paper moving ok.
-> cleaned the MAF with carb cleaner
-> refit everything, and checked TPS voltage, ignition on and also engine idling : voltage rock stable and always returning to the same value +/- 0,03 V, but at about 0,29 V
=> ovalate holes and made it to 0,34 V, rechecked idling and on the return to idle after a little gaz : ok to 0,34 +/- 0,02 V
Went for a test drive after that, and really seems to have improved :-))
Time will tell... I will repost in a while to tell how it is going...
If it is the cleaning that has done wonders, I am a bit worried because the engine has only done barely 2000 km after having been completely overhauled and cleaned... so that is not much before re clogging up !!
Anyway, thank you all for the ideas, and I am sorry not to have taken the time to do the tests one after the other to know exactly which one was THE ONE !
Cheers
Erik.
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Dave, Bo,
your explanations here do make sense to me, and I hope that it will be indeed the problem.
For sure, when engine is hot, I have seen that the stepper is completely closed on my engine.
On another hand, to try and compensate the stalling problem, I have increased base idle, so the idle control loop might well try to close the stepper to the max... Suppose then that fully closed it sticks a little to the housing cause of gum... when the ecu asks for the piston to retract on load, it does not move (or not quickly enough) and by the time the ecu sees the rev drop more (so it asks for more air)... then it is too late !
I will surely have a look at this during the weekend : clean the stepper plunger and housing, try to reset the base idle as close to 600 rpm as possible... and see what it tells.
Crossing fingers :-)
Thanks
Erik.
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Hi everyone,
thanks for the suggestions and sorry for my late reply... I have very limited access to the internet these days, and will only be able to get to the car on the weekend !
Anyway, to browse the ideas :
Zim : faithfully, I have not had the opportunity to try any other AFM... (no access to another one !)
Dave : although I do not have a suitable rpm meter, I have tried to setup the base idle exactly as you explain (but with dash tacho).
The idle is steady, but the stalling remains.
On another hand, I will try to have a look at the T piece on the rocker cover breather hose as you describe. I guess it should be fine, as part of the general cleaning done to the engine for the rebuilt... but it is worth having a look !
I have no clue on how to adjust correctly the idle mixture as I have no CO Meter around faithfully. Just did it at 1.4 Volts on the CO trim pot on the AFM.
On ignition side, I have checked the TDC vs mark on crank is fine, and adjusted to 6 BTDC as it is a low comp engine.
Many people told me about the TPS. Mine seems ok, but I will double check its operation.
I have been told to check the TPS voltage with engine idling, as the engine vibrations might show an unstable worn TPS.
I will try to adjust it to 0,34 V and check it is smooth in operation and always come back to the same value on returning to the closed state.
Aragorn : On the various tries I made, what makes the difference is when I plug or unplug the vacuum port on the stepper housing. Moreover, I believe that if there was a fuelling problem, it should happen also when cold and while cruising, not only at warm idle ??
Fridge : I will have a look at the stepper, but I believe it works well, as the cold and warming up behaviour are "perfect". My problem only occurs when fully warmed. At this stage, on my engine, the stepper seems to be completely closed/sealed, letting no by pass air to the plenum... So maybe it is sticking closed ?
AncientGeek : yeah, I plan to check the fuel pressure, but have no gauge yet. I have ordered one, but must wait for it to arrive before being able to see how it goes in this field !
A question then : how does base idle, with the bypass system plugged as explained by Dave when setting it, should react to a load on the engine like engaging Drive...
I though this base idle setting was indeed supposed to prevent the engine from stalling... as from my understanding, the stepper should have no action on a fully warmed engine ?
What do you think ?
I will try to have a look at the ideas above I have access to... and will come back with results.
Thank you all
Cheers
Erik
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Hello everyone,
after searching and reading a lot, I have found some things, but yet can not solve my problem.
Here is the story (sorry, long post) :
Discovery autobox with a 3.9 EFI engine, 8.13 low comp, no cats, "Australia / Rest of the World" specs.
The engine has been entirely rebuilt 2000 km ago by a friend.
No problem for starting, either hot or cold, never !
No problem when running...
The only problem is as follows :
When engine is warm ONLY, the idle on Park, or Neutral is ok and smooth.
When driving around and you stay at the lights with Drive engaged and braking, Idle is perfect.
The problem is only :
-> when I am idling in Park or Neutral, and engage reverse or drive, well adding a significant load to the engine, the revs drop to below 500, and sometimes stall, sometimes recover.
When it recovers, it then idles ok with the load applied
When it stalls, you can re start again no problem
-> when offroading, like rock crawling, this is irritating, as you come to a stop with a tire on a rock, you give it a little gas to come over, then release... and it stalls when returning to idle.
-> you could make it happen also by giving it a little gaz with drive engaged and the left foot on brake and release gaz... same effects... it stalls when returning to idle.
It seems like it does not cope with a load apply on idle...
Does not do it with AC or lights, but have not had chance to try with a winch, but I believe that a good load on alternator might generate the same stalling.
Here is what I have done up to now :
=> brand new GENUINE cap, rotor, plug leads, plugs
=> timing set warm, with no vacuum at 6 BTDC
=> CO idle trim set at 1.4 V (have no CO tester around) and I feel it is worse when this value is lower
=> base idle speed set up warm with air by pass pluged at about 750/800 rpm
=> checked for vacuum leaks
The only thing (crazy) that I found is :
If I disconnect the vacuum hose which goes from the vaccum port just below the stepper motor to the fuel pressure regulator, the engine takes a few revs (of course with more air, say from 750 to 1000), that I would bring down to the previous idle revs by tightening the base idle screw.
Leaving this vacuum port sucking outside air, and the fuel regulator not connected with vacuum, THE PROBLEM COMPLETELY DISAPPEAR.
You can now switch from park to drive, go rock crawling, rev in drive while braking, and release gaz... it always goes back to its clean idle !!!
This is CRAZY and I can not run the car with the fuel regulator like this and air entering the plenum by the sideway, unfiltered...
By the way, I believe the problem is not from the fuel regulator, as if I just plug the vacuum port, so leaving just the fuel regulator unconnected, I have the same problem.
Seems like engine wants a little more unrestricted air, but when everything is plugged as it should, I can not give it this amount of required air from the base idle screw !!
No problem when cold, I believe the bypass air with stepper compensate for it.
I do not know what else to try, if anyone could please hive me any ideas ?
Thank you all
Erik
Cheers from New Caledonia
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If the difference in torque methods is "apply x amount of torque and then turn 90 degrees or something" rather than torque up the bolts to 70N/M I'd suggest you get some old style bolts and use the old style torque methods as they are re-usable were as the later style ones are not. (I'm talking headbolts here)
The rest is pretty much the same procedure.
Hi,
thanks for the advice.
Any idea about the evolution behind the suffix "C" ?
I was thinking maybe it was the serpentine belt... but found the change point for serpentine belt being maybe VIN MA081991 ???
Still in the mist...
Cheers.
Erik.
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Hi everyone,
with a friend, we are rebuilding a V8 3.9 EFI autobox, 8.13 CR, from a 1998 discovery VIN : WAxxxxxx.
The engine has number 38D38976C.
I have found that : 38D means => factory 3.9 - "R.R DISC 3.9 EFI Auto 8.13:1 CR" which corresponds to the truth.
Now, I found on the V8 overhaul manual that engines without suffix B had the oil pump driven from the dizzy, and engines WITH suffix B had the oil pump crank driven.
Mine has indeed the oil pump crank driven, and is is also a serpentine belt.
Our question is : the engine is suffix C... what evolutions/differences are there from suffix B then ???
Our worry is about the overhaul procedures... indeed, between without and with suffix B, there are some differences on torquing methods etc... in some areas like heads, main bearings, etc...
Can we apply to this engine the same procedures as a "WITH suffix B" engine
Anyone with knowledge of these engines could tell me more please ?
Thank you all.
Erik.
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RR, Rog,
thank you both for your emails. These informations/feedbacks are really valuable
I am waiting for parts to arrive over here (far from UK) and will start to play with all that soon I hope... only difference being I will start with the ignition side only of the 3.9 V8, just as if I was Megajolting, but this is just a matter of free time, and will be later continuing with the EFI side as I will be using a Megasquirt ECU in fact.
Thanks again
Erik.
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This thread has been split from a thread initally started on the For sale thread.
The thread evolved - rather than a "For Sale" it developed into a tech thread of the advantages and differences over MS to MJ or the other way around.
the For sale thread is here :
http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=33191&st=0
This Thread is here around the Megajolt system, as such the Megasquirt system thread may equally be usefull reading :
http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=15317
Enjoy !
Nige
Hi RangeyRover,
I have read on pirate4x4 your install of the Megajolt and that was pretty interesting. I believe now you are plenty happy with the performance and water resistance ?
There is just one thing I would like to double check.
On your running install, how do you feed the LUCAS ECU with "engine running data / dizzy pulse", which on stock design was going from the coil to pin 39 of the LUCAS 14CUX ?
Are you indeed using the 5 diode arrangement ?
Thank you very much for your kind answer in advance.
Erik.
trim angle for edis
in MS-Megasquirt/Jolt
Posted
Hi everyone,
my build project has made a giant step, even if it is spark control only. I am too shy to go fuel n spark in one go !
I am running a discovery with a 3.9 auto, no cats, lucas 14cux for fuelling, and as of today, MS1 extra 029y4 + EDIS for spark.
Multiple check of the wiring, SAW not connected, starter : and it runs !
Check with timing light :
-> I have checked first my tdc mark on pulley was good
-> Edis in limp home mode : should be fixed timing at 10 deg BTDC
-> check with timing lamp : reads 8 deg BTDC
So I am a bit out I believe as far as VR sensor and trigger wheel are concerned, but I am not confident in touching these.
Apart from the EDIS limp home mode, which will remain at 8 deg then (not a problem as with the dizzy I was at 6 !), Is there a way to set some kind of offset in Tunerstudio/MS, so that the value shown on TS gauge is the same as the timing lamp ?
My only try was to put a few degrees in trim but does not seem to cure my problem !
Here is what I have done, and I hope a grown up might help a newbie on this silly topic :
- Running at idle in a bin with 10 deg advance
- MS shows 10 degrees advance in gauge
- Check with timing light, reads 8 deg BTDC
- Spark settings -> I put 2 degrees as trim angle
- MS now shows 12 in the gauge, and still idling in the 10 deg bin in the spak map,
- Check with timing light : reads 10 deg
So it seems real timing corresponds to the map now, yet what is disappointing, is the gauge reading spark table + trim angle, say 12 here.
Is there a way to overcome this in TunerStudio (offset the gaude itself) ?
Or any other setting to change to compensate for the VR sensor offset ?
Thank you very much for your help.
Best regards
Erik.