thanks coachman and mark, no not got it yet bin veiw a couple, but they were more spair n repair than something to work with for a newbie, oil leaks completely covered engine lots to do for mot etc, i WILL find 1, not realy fussy if its a disco 1 or 2 i guess just one that ticks the boxes, ( easy enough to get through mot) to use in everyday use, then repair and adjust as i go along learning, wanna try greenlaning, is there place's groups that you can go to learn it, to get used to it, or is it something you just go and find out