freff Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 Hi I have a 89 Classic RR 3.5i which appears to have a non Land Rover alarm/immobiliser fitted. It is bolted to the top of the O/S inner wing and is oblong'ish with the front end opening out slightly into a trumpet shape. At this end is two holes about 1" dia which appear to be speakers. At the other end is two multi connectors, one with about 15 wires and the other about 6. My problem is, the thing has been full of water and all the connections are corroded. This has caused the whole thing to malfunction and is now not allowing me to start the car. It is obviously short curcuiting and if I connect a link to various pins in the connectors it will start. (sometimes) What I would like to do is remove the thing completely, but I'm worried that because of all the wires coming from it I'm going to mess things up. Does anyone know the make of this alarm or if a wiring schematic is available. Many thanks in anticipation. Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coastcard Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 Depends on the quality of the alarm, but often the wires are just linked up to boot/door opening switches and internal sensors, so don't get too phased by them. The key one to find (professor obvious here ) is the ignition kill. You can tell pretty much where it is hooked in by what it is stopping working. If you turn the key and no dash lights go on then it is killing main power. Most likely though is that the lights will go on and it is just killing the starter relay/solenoid. Once you have established this, then you can go about tracing where it is hooked in. On the defender the ignition to start relay is a white/red wire (not sure about rangey though). As an aftermarket system, I would look for the accessible hook in places i.e near the start relay and around the ignition switch. Assuming you are stripping the system out, you could remove the switch wires and sensors, then see what you are left with and where they go. For short term fix again identify the pair of wires that are killing the starter, then short them at the alarm box or rejoin the wire that they are spliced into (as per above). Hope this helps as a starting point. Post up if your immobiliser does different things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freff Posted November 7, 2007 Author Share Posted November 7, 2007 Many thanks for your quick reply. I think the alarm was fitted by LR going by the quality of the installation. The ignition seems to be the main problem. The engine can be turned over OK but will not fire until the correct wires are shorted or link is inserted, which is a hit or miss affair. There have been occasions when the car has started only to cut out when the driver door is opened. There is a relay close to and connected to the coil which clicks when I short at the alarm. I don't know what that is or if it is original or part of the alarm system. A lot of the alarm wires have 'black wire syndrom' so making good connections is difficult. There is also two dash sensors which I assume are not working, and the alarm is also connected to the indicators which also stay on 'non flashing' or all come on when the indicator arm is used. That's another story. Many thanks for your help and patience. Any more advice or hints are appreciated, Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coastcard Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 Sounds like yours is a more 'sophisticated setup' than the one I removed. There is a relay near the coil that is standard on a flapper efi (assuming one of the wires goes from it to the coil). Maybe the alarm cuts off the power supply to the ECU? A long shot but it may be worth looking at the white plug that connects the main loom to the efi loom and see if there are any joins there on the power pins. I believe it is under the dash on the drivers side. The other place to look for joins is under/around the fuse/relay box. Not wishing to teach you to suck eggs, but what you are looking for is a break in a wire which is then looped via the immobiliser and back (the immobiliser acting as a switch in the circuit). If you use the flapper efi diagnostic document in the tech archive, you could establish what is not working and thus what is being cut off. One simple test that springs to mind is if you switch ignition on and then gently push the flap in the air flow meter (doesn't need to be very far) and see if the fuel pump switches on (this is driven by the ECU). Sorry can't be more help (bit like the blind leading the blind) - not sure if there is an alarm expert on here who may know the standard hooks for these units. Think it maybe just a case of tracing what is being cut off where. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freff Posted November 7, 2007 Author Share Posted November 7, 2007 coastcard Again thanks for your quick response. I think I have something to on on with now. I'll start dismantling under the steering area and get some access to the wiring. I'm a little confused with this part . "If you use the flapper efi diagnostic document in the tech archive, you could establish what is not working and thus what is being cut off." Many thanks Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coastcard Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 Hi Tony, What I was suggesting was that if you look at those diagnostics (for your efi system, which is termed as a 'flapper' type) in the technical archive on here, you could establish what the immobiliser was cutting off and thus wired into. I would do the following basics first to establish broadly what was being immobilised. 1) You have established it isn't the starter circuit. 1) It would be worth checking the ignition system (check for a spark at the plugs). 2) Fuel pump test as per previous post. Just thought, another place to look for obvious splices would be under the driver seat where the ECU is and the adjacent 3 relays. If you follow the fat efi cable from the ECU back under the dash, you will find the white plug as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freff Posted November 7, 2007 Author Share Posted November 7, 2007 Hi Coastcard I did guess it was in the archives and had a quick wander through there. I have just been to the car and it started fine, but cut out when I opened the drv door. I think I remember the white connector when I was last under the dash trying to sort the indicator relay which wasn't the problem anyway. What I will do is what you suggested and as I come to each wire, disconnect/reconnect and if OK after that remove it. I think it's going to be a case of elimination at each wire/component etc. I do remember that on one occasion when it wouldn't start, I checked the ignition. It would spark but not start leading me to think it was a fuel problem. It would catch for a second or two then quit. I disconnected the fuel inlet and petrol was coming through ok. I don't know what would stop it from starting if there is spark and fuel, unless the fuel is stopped electronically somehow after the union I disconnected to check. It's all very confusing. I will have another go tomorrow if I get a chance. Many thanks Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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