Cal Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 Hi all, Hope you can help with this one and will say from the start that I appreciate it's difficult to try and help out when given a description of a noise over the forum! OK - when starting from cold the engine fires up fine but for about 10 seconds or until the throttle is blipped the engine is at low revs and very rattly/chattery sounding. No smoke at all and then it settles to a more normal but still slightly low idle. I have recently had the cambelt done, cleaned the intercooler, new fuel filter, new air filter and have also tweaked the fuel pump a touch but I recall it did do this once or twice before all of the above were done, but it's happening more frequently now. Once it's warm it starts normally, but then the above can happen again after a couple of hours. I was wondering what your thoughts are - I'm thinking it could be that the fuel sedimenter needs cleaning out and that the start up symptoms are lack of fuel to begin with. Or it could be a knackered injector, or possibly lift pump... One more thing - doesn't seem to have been any change to mpg either just feels a bit down on power (as per my previous post about checking the wastegate). Thanks in advance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian_s Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 i think your timing is slightly out, my 200tdi used to do that as the keyway on the crank pulley was worn meaning the timing could change slightly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cal Posted May 11, 2011 Author Share Posted May 11, 2011 Nice one - thanks Ian - hadn't thought of that. Totally off topic, but someone has brought in a really nice series 1 to work today - brilliant! Made me smile! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DDO173 Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 I've had a similar problem with mine since I bought it. Idle was set a little higher by the PO to compensate I think, but If I set the idle to a satisfactory level (750-800 rpm) once the engine is warm, then next day from a complete cold start she runs very rough and low idle for a little while (as per the first posts described symptoms). I had put it down to the injector nozzles being worn, and the fuel was not atomising and burning fully when cold and hence the usual puff of black smoke on startup. ian_s I support what you say as the timing could be slightly out. I beleive It has not long had a new cambelt as the timing cover gasket was clean where is sticks out looking like it has freshly been done. I may try adjusting the timing using the injector pump 3 adjustment screws - are we thinking too far advanced? If so the pump needs rotating a bit anticlockwise on its adjustment screws? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cal Posted May 11, 2011 Author Share Posted May 11, 2011 I knew I would forget something in my initial post - when idling normally at start up (i.e after the funny noise has stopped) the revs do surge up and down a little - we aren't talking loads but you can see the rev needle moving up and down a bit with the corresponding change in engine note. Thanks... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DDO173 Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 Yep, mine does the same! Will be checking my timing tomorrow night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cal Posted May 11, 2011 Author Share Posted May 11, 2011 If you could let me know what you find, I'd be grateful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cal Posted May 13, 2011 Author Share Posted May 13, 2011 Hi all. Had another go at getting air out of the fuel system last night and so far so good seems to be starting better again but now seems a bit rough. What have I done? Maybe get it booked in for next week to get timing checked as already suggested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DDO173 Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Checking the timing is a piece of cake, all you need is a 10mm spanner/socket and a 9.5mm drill bit. I know as I've just done mine and it wasn't exactly out. Out of principal though I went through the motions of slackening off the vernier pulley and realligned so I could get the drill in. However now it hunts more than it did before, even when warmed up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cal Posted May 14, 2011 Author Share Posted May 14, 2011 :-( sorry to hear it's got worse. Have you checked your fuel pipes under the boot floor for corrosion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DDO173 Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 I have no suspicions of fuel contamination/air ingress. Adjusted the vernier pulley empirically (advance) today and at first it was down on power when I went for a drive and slowm to pick up. Adjusted it again (advance) was very close to the limit of the adjustment anyway and that was awful when i started it up, very clattery. So backed right off and did a couple more advances a bit at a time - now its a lot better and pokier! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davek0974 Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 They sometimes need and will benefit from manual tuning of the timing, they do not always run well at the factory point and may need a little advance or retard to get the best. It's a Hamelin you can't tweak them with a strobe light like you can on a series petrol lump, my one always worked best when tweaked a little. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davek0974 Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 They sometimes need and will benefit from manual tuning of the timing, they do not always run well at the factory point and may need a little advance or retard to get the best. It's a Hamelin you can't tweak them with a strobe light like you can on a series petrol lump, my one always worked best when tweaked a little. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimAttrill Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 Oh yes you can time a tdi with a strobe light, but you need the fancy piezo thingy which clamps to the No1 injector pipe and senses when the pump 'fires' the cylinder. These are made by Snap-On in the US but I believe Sykes-Pickavant make one. We used to find that the 'standard' timing on a 300tdi was about 3 deg BTDC when 10 BTDC is about the best. What you can do is loosen the 3 10mm bolts on the pulley and oink the 19mm nut in the clockwise direction. This will advance the timing. If the engine has a metallic sort of sound on idle you are over-advanced. There is also an art to fitting the cambelt so that the timing is adjustable - if you are at the end of the slot on the pulley no adjustment in that direction either advancing or retarding is possible. As I said above, the standard timing is a bit retarded so we used to make sure that some movement in the clockwise direction was possible. And if you don't think that LR wanted us to time our engines this way, why did they cast timing marks on the front cover? We would paint the marks white to make them show up with the strobe light. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cal Posted May 17, 2011 Author Share Posted May 17, 2011 Thanks for the additional info all - that's great! I haven't got a clue how to do any of that myself but it gives me some suggestions to take forward to someone who can! Much appreciated as always. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DDO173 Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 We used to find that the 'standard' timing on a 300tdi was about 3 deg BTDC when 10 BTDC is about the best Can they really take 10 degrees!? I find that quite surprising. I managed to get mine to run really nicely now, power wise and that was almost bang on the timing mark (9.5mm drill bit). Still hunts a little at idle so my suspicion is turning back to injector nozzles... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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