JeremySteel

Naks; that's a bit of an expensive cockup. Are there any other bits of bad news on the I6? The old Ford/Lion V6 had quite a reputation for breaking crankshafts and spinning shell bearings. I assume the I6 has more main bearings and better oiling.

That's a very good point Snagger. The only time I've ever worked on hydrogen was on a small fuel cell and that had leak detectors but I don't know how they worked.

Yes, agreed, the propensity to leak is way higher with H2. Odorants can be added just like natural gas (even your Camping Gaz). Have there been any reports of accidents in places like California where they've had H2 refuelling for a while? Don't forget the pressures involved versus LPG. The only problems I've seen are frozen nozzles. Any issues with the (rare) Toyota Mirai? (Apart from infrastructure). But I do share the concerns of Snagger regarding long term usage at refuelling stations and wer & tear of the equipment. Nuclear for land is an option for reliable 24/7 power but excess renewables (one day) can be used for H2 production. Every man and his brother are making electrolysers now (e.g. ITM Power, Plug Power and Cummings.) For ships? Nah. Costs a fortune and some countries won't allow nuclear powered ships to dock. And trusting a shipping line feeling the pinch to maintain their ships? Mmm. As suggested an EV Defender/RR is going to be a tank esp if they want to offer an acceptable towing range. Has JLR's Project Zeus bitten the dust? Good old Diesel. And JLR's I6 is a beauty.

A UK Gov Parliamentary report late last year actually highlighted that hydrogen was not the panacea. No Sh** Sherlock. Obvious really, like many things: horses-for-courses. A part to play. Not sure if HFCEV et similar are a scam. Germany is way ahead of UK in H2 infrastructure and they're not daft. And, in a magic World, the H2 would be generated by renewable. Expensive? Yes. Leaks, yes a problem as you describe and for the reasons you describe. But not beyond the wit of man. Embrittlement is another risk. The smell? Well, just like your home Natural Gas a smell is added. Similar to Snagger I can't see FCEV for small cars. But if it allows me and my Defender/RR to tow for 250 miles between (10 minute) refills then I'm for it. I suspect a divergence of power sources, assuming we're not held to a battery/lithium ransom by any countries. But with recharging it's not just the pain of charging time and frequency, it's the fact that your 10+ metres of rig can't find a space to charge and/or pees off a lot of other people.

Yes, I saw the TFL show and others wrt towing heavy loads. I think the Lightning with a 3-4 ton trailer was creating charge anxiety/panic at about ~100 miles. And there was another review of a boring EV mid-sized car towing a tiny caravan - it highlighted the hassle of small EV charge bays and having to dump the caravan. Never mind, you can always buy a 500kg e-Jerry can.

With reference to Naks' posts I wonder what the curb/kerb weight will actually be for an EV RR or Defender? Surely if they are expecting a decent tow capacity and range then the battery would have to be considerably more than 100kWh? After all, look at Ford F150 Lightning , the GMC Hummer and similar; monsters with whopping batteries. A very difficult design choice I suspect. Sadly, I can't see hydrogen racing to the rescue anytime soon. If I was towing a 1.5 tonne caravan or heavier trailer and had to stop every (say) 100 miles to charge I'd be unimpressed. And the pain of unhitching and re-hitching would be a nightmare. Even worse in very cold weather.

Gazzar is right. It's a utility Range Rover / Disco now. I doubt if boulder-basher off-roaders represent more than 0.01% of their sales. Harry, Horsies and Caravanists are a far greater market with big wallets.. My main gripe is the 2 candle-power reversing lights. Nice bit of work with MS Paint. Cheap & Easy? Nothing is cheap & easy in automotive sadly. Ask Mr Ineos.

The PHEV is likely more to do with legislation and average fleet emissions; old Harry in his garage discussed it in his RRS Youtube a couple of years ago. Anyone who wanted to do a lot of towing etc. would go for the diesel. True Real World figures, like most PHEVs, will be miles different from the manufacturer's careful usage of official testing.

I would imagine that JLR marketing are more miffed that the movie was delayed. I'm sure they'll offer more vehicles - never say never again.

This must surely be the most annoying presenter in the World (currently). New Ford Bronco review: better than a Land Rover? - Bing video After watching this the next working week will seem a joy

If you want a nerve-shattering presenter try CarWow.

Absolutely Happyoldgit.

That's a lovely thing.

It's a pain to clean I admit but "unfit for purpose" (even when prefixed "arguably") is a little strong. I doubt if 0.001% of owners will have a problem and any serious mud-plugger will have a pressure washer. A more important (stupid) design thing is the positioning and lack of protection for the (I think) A/C heat-exchanger. I'm going to make a grille as I already have a couple fins flattened by old Defender owners throwing stones at me

No doubt there will be some enterprising Company out there designing replacements. Maybe the new Defender2 in 2023 will change that.

The rears do look odd, but at least the duplication allows a little bit of redundancy in the event of failure or a bump. The illumination by the reversing lights is awful, they should be twice as bright. It's barely enough to see and doesn't allow enough illumination for the rear cameras. And all the arty-farty recesses is a pain when cleaning out the mud and dirt. I'd prefer flat lenses but the LR Graphics Department got there first. I guess if they'd been flat then even more people would have said 'Disco 6'. The fronts illuminate quite well but could be a little brighter. Not as good as (modern) Rangies. The dip-to-main ramp-up when in Auto is nice. But I don't lose (not loose) too much sleep over this.

I agree Gazzer. The days of a do-it-all uncomfortable 'Road Tractor' went years ago. As you say, replaced by cheaper, tough, reliable pickups. I live in a farming area and see what the daily farmer-vehicles are and what the farm owners (the Harrys) use. Three chums of mine who have old Defenders (two of them have Counties) love them as fun chuggabugs. So do I. They've seen less mud than my new one. And with current valuations of good condition old ones you'd have to be bonkers, rich, both or very enthusiastic to rag them. JLR aren't entirely daft. They'll have looked at the market requirements and what the biased motoring journos (and YouTubers) say. They'll know they can't price-match a Toyota pickup (other brands are available). So they went for a not-too-opulent comfortable on-roader, a capable off-roader, a good tow-vehicle with the 'Land Rover' badge and a nod to the past. And, of course, lots of options to increase the income stream. I refrained from optioning the spill resistant dog bowl. That's why the first models are a modern County not a Disco. BMW did alright with the new Mini. There's a still a fondness for the old one quite rightly. But most people/journos just got on with life and appreciate both.

Tricky. Different people have different requirements and expectations. I see criticisms of the new Ford Bronco - probably by Jeep Wrangler owners (or wannabe owners who can't afford it). No mass manufacturer can win everyone over; they have to think of markets, statistics, legislation, environmental and stir it all into the saucepan of compromise.

Nice looking motor Jeremy. Is that the I6 petrol? The new Defenders have provoked a Freelander/Disco5 debate a lot here. I have driven Freelanders and newest Disco (on road and on the tame LR 'Experience' off-road courses) but I don't want to get into that. I have a couple of friends locally that have 08 and 14 plate Defenders (County). Their vehicles are lovely old things but, due to second hand prices getting excitable, those vehicles haven't seen mud for years. I haven't done any really rough off-road; muddy fields/tracks have been my limit and the traction has been impressive , even on the standard-issue tyres. I'd have to have a bigger wallet to go bonkers. If you're having problems with Pivi-Pro ensure you've got the July 1st update; apparently the SOTA updates are downloaded in batches. I got mine yesterday and everything seems better/faster than before. Whilst we won't suffer rusty chassis I'd suggest a wax coating on the powder-coated bits underneath. I saw some awful corrosion on a Velar website on powder-coated suspension and drive-shaft parts. I've become a big fan of Bilt-Hamber products compared to some of the old-faithful brands. Warm sunny days are the ideal time to clean and wax your under-carriage.

Well the beautiful new Defender hasn't been around long enough to show the inevitable faults, but a reliability survey from CarBuyer.co.uk is interesting: "Land Rover came a disappointing 25th out of 30 manufacturers in our 2020 Driver Power owner satisfaction survey, but this still kept it ahead of rivals BMW and Mercedes." The old one is beautiful too, but if you want to get your horsebox out of a wet, muddy field the new one will likely be better - as will the comfort of the drive back home. And, unlike previous partners, the voice control actually does what I ask

Sounds like where I work. We're so slow that the Micros and FPGAs will be obsolete before we get something out Cars are a right mix. All the firmware that does the important stuff driving/safety functions is absolutely fine. All the annoying glitchy stuff revolves around infotainment. And that's the flashy stuff that showroom customers and magazine reviewers gush over. I suspect development, validation and reviewing of that sort of thing is rushed through so that it can be shoved into the car asap. Then it ends up so bloated and unwieldy that it, as you say, affects other fancy things. The SOTA updates over the last few months have sorted most issues. My software/firmware glitches, other than occasional lagginess, simply relates to logging into Landrover Incontrol from the car. And, after I moaned about it, I wondered if I ever would use it. 'No' is the answer I suspect. Putting that trivia aside the car is great. Comfortable on-road and superb traction in the mud etc.

I'm a button person too and after living with a new Defender for 6 months the mix of electrical/mechanical controls is quite good. Some functions took me months to discover as the e-handbook is very poor and looks rushed. (Even a donkey like me could have written a better one). Sadly, it has been let down by JLR's bugbear - software. The Pivi-Pro system has yet another major upgrade coming to sort sillies. Pivi-Pro has been a wonderful example of Marketing over Maturity. My Defender has been at the Dealership a total of 2 weeks in 6 months trying to sort software and usually failing or aborting. Some faults were magically fixed by SOTA . I'll add that none of the faults brought the car to a halt. The vehicle itself is superb though I nearly gave myself a hernia lifting the 32kg spare wheel back onto its location. HFCs - I'm a big fan and project Zeus has been running for a few years now. I understand the arguments about total energy 'efficiency' versus BEV batteries but I can't see an alternative for a totally electric 4x4 vehicle that can tow a horse-box for >200 miles and refuel in 5 minutes. Just imagine a tonne of battery required making a >3 tonne Defender or RR. Same for HGVs , I can't agree with Elon on this. Also, there are some big and medium Companies involved in design/manufacture of massive electrolysers (e.g. Cummins, Linde, ITM etc.). And JCB announcing an ICE using hydrogen. The trouble is fueling infrastructure; is it something like 11 H2 stations in UK right now? Slightly chicken & egg I guess. One day, or maybe not. And don't forget the mining involved for battery manufacture.

For those with some disposable income... New Defender on 35's! - YouTube

I agree with Retroanaconda; I've driven up muddy / wet-gravelly slopes in my Defender and fairly recent RRs and found it to be almost seamless. Just a quick twitch as you apply throttle and up we went. LR have got that aspect bang-on.

Hardly surprising. Imagine trying to modify/remanufacture the independent system. I wonder what the weight of the tyre/wheel combo is. The rear frame/hinge/door-casting will probably break. And to change wheels you'd have to go the Gym for a year before trying it. Nice Tonka Toy though.