ToyRoverlander

No worries. Didn't realize you're running portals... Indeed, you really don't want to go SOA with portals. I reckon rear springs up front would still be a good idea on your truck, you got the height AND the big tyres, so the little bit extra up front wouldn't hurt much. Rear springs are 48" long, that's only 5.5" of spring that will stick out in front of your wheel, but it will sit real high because of the portal drop. It just depends on what you're after. Softer springs can indeed be achieved by what you describe, no problem at all. But with, just about, the same amount of fab work you can have rear springs up front with potential for massive articulation, and thus a balanced suspension that creates as much, or actually more, articulation from the front than from the rear. Oh, wait a minute.... You say you have parabolic springs... How do you want to get less arch on the front springs? You can't take leafs out, there are only 2 in there. De-arching them won't decrease spring rate as far as I'm aware. I could be mistaking here, but with de-arching all you'd get is that you get less free camber so the spring will be pushed flatter. So that's not because the spring rate has changed, that's still the same. One other thing I've noticed is that when the spring is actually flat, it gets stiffer. It takes a lot of force to reverse arch a spring, must be something to do with the spring pulling the shackle forwards again I reckon... What do you want to achieve? (ps, how many posts does it take before they don't have to be reviewed anymore? )

I see.. Good idea! Just too bad we can't keep the discussion going as you can't reply anymore...

As the title says..... what happened to it? It's gone...

In one word; excellent! How do you want to get ride height level? Longer springs or going spring over? Going spring over will NOT get the ride height level without doing the back end as well. Longer springs could make the difference, but you'll lose a lot of approach angle because the chassis has to be extended 6". There's no point fitting longer front springs without going spring over. You can add a leaf to the front springs. Find someone with an old set of front parabolic springs. Grind off the clamps of your springs. Then pull that second set of springs apart, grind off the military wrap (or the bush eye) so you end up with a smooth leaf. And fit those underneath your springs. That will increase spring rate bij 50%, and as you still got the same weight on it, it will compress less and thus increase ride height. It will make it 50% firmer as well, just so you know. Oh, don't worry about not having clamps. The first 2 leafs are not going anywhere anyway (mil.wrap after all, fits in between hanger and shackles) and that 3rd leaf won't really go anywhere, see it as a helper leaf. If it lifts the nose too much, or it is too firm for your liking, shorten that leaf. Grab a high lift jack, lift up the whole nose of the vehicle, but keep the wheels touching the ground. You only want to take weight of the springs. Whack a chisel in between the 2nd and 3rd leaf to create some free space between them, grab the grinder and shorten it up. Do that on both sides of the spring obviously. That's what I've done. My 2leaf rear springs (at the front) were too soft, they where flat. I added a 3rd leaf (of an old normal lenght parabolic front spring so it was allready shorter than the 2 other leafs) and that lifted the nose up too much. I shortened them up, still to high. I ended up cutting nearly 8" off, on both sides of the spring. So I've got a 20" helper 3rd leaf (normal lenght 36" ). And it's perfect now. The car sits level, the springs have a little curve in them again and it rides good.

I got no problem with it whatsoever. The corner of my bumper occasionally digs into a bank or something but that's about it. My bumper sits in FRONT of the chassis. With my mate's 109" we've done it differently. His bumper slides over the chassisrails a good 3" or so. So his bumper doesn't stick out as far as mine. His approach angle is excellent, would be even more so if he had bigger tyres on it. Compared to a standard bumper this one sits about 2" further forward. Why would you want to extend the front legs downwards with longer shackles and use flatter springs? That does hurt your approach angle! There's only 1 place for a flat, or nearly flat, leafspring and that's on TOP of the axle, not below it.

I would say, halfshaft, then the diff.

Redneck thing? Little gain? Guess I should go back to standard than . Ditch? What ditch?

And I do . I swapped to that 3B motor in august 2007. Best mod I've ever done!!

No, the 5125Series can't be rebuild. You can choose between, I believe 2, different valvings. 255/70 is for solid axle leafsprings, 360/80 for solid axle coil sprung trucks. If you wan't fully rebuildable (ones with a shrader valve to depressurize and refill the shocks with nitrogen) you'll need the 7100Series. Count on a few more $$$'s for those though. Have a look here: http://www.bilsteinus.com/offroad.php#5100pre

Second try.... don't know what happened to my reply Thanks! Yeah, it works really well! It rides great on and more so off road. It solved all the horrible suspension caracteristics it had before too. I just need to shorten the helper leafs on the front springs, the front needs to come down a little. You started it? When did you put those LC80 axles under your disco? I stuffed a toy motor and tranny in the 109" back in the summer of 2007 . Thank you! Oh geez, you got no idea, this is SO much better! RR brakes have got nothing on these brakes! You want discs, go to LC80axles . Overall, it's a much better vehicle. Just don't put heavy steel tubes on the roof and drive around, too much weight on top.....scary handling! don't ask how I know That's right plasticbadger, MY brakes DO work really well Oh, there's another sprung over 109" joining the club kewl

Thanks! It does work really well atm. I've added that 3rd leaf to the front springs and that transformed the ride for the better, much firmer. It just sits a bit tall at the front. Next sunday there's an offroad event that I'll be attending. Hopefully that helps sag the front springs a bit, otherwise I'll go and shorten the 3rd leaf a bit more to reduce its effect. Oh by the way, MY brakes are awesome Whahaaa... perhaps... when did you put those 80series axles under your disco? I put a BJ42 motor and tranny in the 109 back in 2007 Thank you It sure is a massive change. But one for the better! On and offroad performance have increased 100%, it rides SO much better now! And it looks pretty awesome too! My mate's 109" is just about finished. That one turned out pretty cool as well. It still sits fairly tall on new springs. It hasn't got 'eyebrows' yet, and I gotta say.... it looks impressive with those wheels sticking out THAT far. We made a nice bullbar today and the cool thing is... You wouldn't say it has its chassis extended 6" to fit the rear springs up front. The bumper only sits about 2-3" futher forward than normal.. I'll get some photos tomorrow with the 2 Toy-Rovers next to each other

Thanks all for the kind words! Fridge, I love the Bilsteins. They're nice and firm. As you've seen, mine is a heavy station wagon sitting on 3leaf rear springs. That's very soft for suft a heavy vehicle. I used to have 4leafs with original armstrong shocks and that was just cr*p. It bounced coming of speedbumps. Now it doesn't bounce at all. The suspension compresses, comes back up again and that's it. I got mine from the US, shockwarehouse.com. Mate of mine just ordered the same ones. I believe it was €400 for 4 shocks including shipping and import duties and tax. I beleive they're 70odd dollars each.

You can always add a leaf. See if anyone has some old parabolic front springs lying around, grind of the eye/military wrap and clamp and put it underneath in the spring pack. You have to grind off the clamp on your springpack too. You don't need it anyway, the main leaf is going nowhere, nor is the second leaf as it has a military wrap. Only the 3rd leaf MIGHT move a little bit. I've done this, but I've got rear springs up front and used the second leaf of an old front spring, so my 3rd leaf is shorter than the others.

Right.. My first post here on this forum. Better make it an informative one then.. Some of you might already know me (snagger, plasticbadger) from other forums. For the others, my name is Koos, I'm 27y/o and live in the netherlands. Oh, and I drive a '65 109" stationwagon. Right, tech talk. Doing a SOA conversion is a great idea! If you like it to perform well offroad that is, don't expect it to be a weight carrier or a heavily packed expedition vehicle any more. Like with many other mods, there's compromises. A SOA conversion is awesome, if done right! Here's my idea of it being done right. I'll break it down into the individual components. Axles It would be silly to keep the Series axles. They're narrow and weak. Some will argue that drum brakes perform well, I hate them. I like GOOD brakes. Coiler axles are wider, have disc brakes but I still wouldn't choose them because they're still fairly weak. Plus I don't like the trackrod sitting ridiculously low behind the axle. There's no high-steer arms available for coiler axles. They can be made for Series axles though, at least that's a good thing... I would use something else than LR axles. Keep in mind width, locker and ratio options and whether you can get high-steer arms for them. Steering I've already mentioned the high-steer arms. They replace factory steering arms on the swivelhousings so the track rod and draglink are moved up and over the leafsprings. That way they're less vulnerable. And it reduces bumpsteer. The higher the angle between the drop-arm and the steerin arm on the swivelhousing, the more it will suffer from bumpsteer. Springs Whether you use parabolics or standard springs with leafs removed doesn't matter much. It's all possible. I like parabolics as they're more supple, are a thinner spring pack (especially with all those spacer plates removed and in a 3leaf setup for instance) and they're still 'tuneable'. You can remove or add individual leaves to raise or lower spring ratio. Reducing spring rate will lessen the arch in the spring, and so lower ride height. Depending on how soft you go, it will also make it more unstable on side slopes and it won't ride nice on the street. It would be wise too to get rid of the short front springs and use rear springs up front. They're 12" longer, and the longer the spring is the more flex it has. And having more flex up front increases overall articulation and also more balanced articulation front to rear which is also very important. Shocks Ditch those original, and those pro-comp, shocks and go looking into aftermarket long-travel shocks. Those long soft springs are capable of some pretty amazing articulation, if they're not being restricted by short shocks. You want decent high quality shocks that are valved (or are adjustable) to be much 'stiffer'. That will make it ride a lot nicer on the street and controls the supsension way better. Look for around 12-14 inches of shock travel (measure to see what fits before buying obviously!!!). That's a lot of travel, and you DO need to fab up some shock mounts for them. Tyres Don't put 7.50's on a SOA'd Series. It looks stupid! You need some bigger rubber to fill up those arches, you got the clearance now anyway. Anything less than 33" will look funny. And there's another reason for going to non LR axles, stronger stock and, depending on what you get, better brakes. Bigger tyres need more stopping power too! Bigger tyres add under axle clearance, and ofcourse overal under chassis clearance. The SOA gives very good underchassis clearance and approach angles. Driveshafts These will need to be custom made. Depending on axles (low or high-pinion) your options are high-angle yokes, longer slip joints, custom lenghts and DC shafts. When doing the conversion keep an eye on u-joint angles! unless you like vibrations..... Ofcourse you need to look at other things too. Will the tyres stick outside the body, are brakelines long enough.... stuff like that. Enough with the tech talk for now.... I've converted mine to SOA and am currently converting a mate's 109" too. Here's mine: Good articulation for a Series:http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=392422 Compared to my mate's 109" that's getting converted too and is almost done: What I've done..... First of all, the engine and gearbox have been swapped in favor of a 3.4 4cyl diesel from a BJ42 Cruiser. Axles are from a HDJ80 LandCruiser. On the front: - rear parabolic springs, 2leaf with a 3rd 'helper' leaf made from the second leaf of an old 2leaf parabolic front spring (thus a bit shorter). To fit the longer springs the chassis has been extended and the rear shackle bush in the chassis has been moved back. - Bilstein 5125Series shocks with 14" travel with a 270/55 valving. - Driveshaft with high-angle yokes and 180mm slip (don't need that long, but is from my old setup). - steering is just a bend trackrod from a 60Series cruiser with a bit of the old LR trackrod welded in. No PAS here and I doubt I have the strenght to bend it, and if the wheel gives it a kick it will rip the steering wheel out of my hands (been there done that). High-steer arms for 80series axles are available from Slee offroad in the US. However, there's someone currently developing new swivel housings and highsteer arms that fit on top of the housing with 4(or 6?) bolts. There's only 2 bolts now holding in the top swivel pin, not enough.... The Slee arms use the ABS sensor hole for a 3rd bolt hole. On the rear (keep in mind my rear suspension mounting points were NOT stock to begin with) - 3leaf parabolic springs. - mounting points of the leaf springs have been moved up, about 1.5" at the front and about 4" at the rear. This moves the spring up and lowers ride-height. This was needed on mine because of the modded rear spring mounts. - Bilstein 5125Series 14" travel shocks with a 270/55 valving - Custom length high-angle 110mm slider driveshaft. (on my mate's 109" we've used a DC shaft with high-angle yokes, 110mm slider and Series pattern flanges) Tyres are 255/85 KM2's Offroad this thing is a beast. It crawls through everything. Offroad I haven't had it lift a wheel off the ground yet! It has that much articulation! Onroad it handles really well! There's less bodyroll than my mate's 109" when it still had parabolic springs and pro-comp shocks. It corners good! There's no need to slow down to a crawl to go through the corner! High-speed stability is good. I can take my hands of the wheel when doing 60mph and it tracks straight as an arrow. The one thing it doesn't like is crosswinds, you get blown around a fair bit. And it suffers from bumpsteer as I havent got the high-steer arms yet. And as a result, on bad bitumen roads it tends to steer left and right a bit because of the bumpsteer. That's it. Hopefully it helped out a bit and if you have questions, feel free to ask. regards Koos