Jocklandjohn
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Posts posted by Jocklandjohn
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Yes I did the compression test, but from reading various bits of info was under the impression that a leakdown test might be a useful thing to do as well, and if the kit wasn't expensive might be worth it. But if someone experienced is advising its a bit of a waste of time (given my good compression test result) I'll gladly defer to your experience! Thanks!
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I'm trying to find a reasonably priced leakdown kit with the twin gauge set up. As far as I can see all the sub £50 kits are only for petrol engines. However they all (diesel or petrol) go to 100psi/7Bar so does that mean that the only difference in usage is the fitting for connection to injector/glow plugs on a diesel versus spark plug sized fittings for petrol?
The expensive Laser Cylinder Leakage kit notes it has petrol fittings, but has the adaptor for diesel testing (Quote: "As Supplied in Compression Test Kit Part no 4510) which suggests that it is possible. But I'll need an adult to confirm! I have a compression test kit (with both injector and glowplug fittings) so can I assume its possible to simply use a petrol gauge on them?
Alternatively a pointer to any modestly priced diesel tester would be welcomed.
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5 hours ago, fmmv said:
All of the above plus check the cam timing if you haven't already. Might also be a worn keyway in the crank nose causing it to be retarded. I bought a 300 with the cam timed wrong and it was equally gutless.
Thanks, good advice.
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4 hours ago, Retroanaconda said:
Simple thing to check - are all your induction hoses okay and not collapsing internally?
Checked those and replaced most with new ones several years ago, to try to resolve this ongoing issue, used various alloy bends and new silicone stuff. Also added a second ar intake from the wing into a Y before the air filter to ensure sufficient flow. Under revs (parked) all the pipes *appear* to be firm and none seem to be deforming (though possible that the other sock Eightpot's pal lost is lurking in there!).
3 hours ago, smallfry said:I did all this stuff (uprated but not VNT turbo) to a 200Tdi 90 I had back in the early nineties. I always found it underwhelming. Are you sure you are not expecting too much from it ? The injection pump will need tuning too, not just random fiddling. As Hurbie rightly says, most people ignore the pump, as it gets expensive !
How do you KNOW that the CSW with the trailer had a Tdi in it ? Might have had a BMW M57 conversion, or even a big petrol engine, in which case you have no hope of keeping up with it !
It had Tdi on the side ....but you're right it could have been anything! Mind you I've been passed by numerous old 110's as I'm going up hills and they dont all have big motors so that suggests I'm the one with the problem. But your main point about expectations - no, I took it to a local LR fettler and asked him to drive it to give me an opinion. He thought it was awful. Then let me drive his, which is same - a 110 with 200Tdi, 1.2 T/case, slightly larger intercooler, though his has fatter/bigger tyres and is a CSW, and filled with rubbish and seats etc and it was like driving a Ferrari - it went up hills in any gear I wanted with no drama and no smoke. I used to drive a 300Tdi 110 CSW for a company I did some work with, filled with people, and it was a flyer in stock form, so I have a good sense of what it should drive like so I'm sure I am not expecting too much tbh. My pump has not been fiddled with, it was overhauled by a Bosch dealer and left as-is by me. Luckily I have a spare pump and thats beene expensively overhauled and collected form Bosch shop this week and is sitting in the garage to be installed whenever. However I'd rather rule out any other possible causes before putting it on.
3 hours ago, Eightpot said:Lots of black smoke with high egt and low power seems to point towards a rich mixture - I think if your engine starts up quickly and runs smooth with a healthy amount of clatter you're probably close enough that a slight timing error won't rob you of that much power.
I would be revisiting the air side - check wastegate valve closes spring is set correctly, check hoses and make sure you're getting a solid 1 bar+ at the inlet manifold rather than the turbo to fip tube, valve clearances, any blockage in the manifold etc etc (a friend had a similar problem and found a rolled up sock in his air intake pipe!)
All good stuff. I do valves regularly and will check the various orifices and piping.
1 hour ago, Northwards said:John, SigiH mentioned the fuel boost pipe. No doubt you know this, but he was referring to the small pipe that runs between the turbo and the diaphragm housing on top of the injection pump. This runs around a few corners and probably rubs up against other pipes and stuff. I took mine off once and found it holed in three places, and the top of the diaphragm full of oily gunk.
Car was still going ‘OK’ I suppose, so this might not be enough to explain your symptoms. Even in that condition I was towing a boat regularly and don’t think I’d have struggled on those roads you’ve described - and I’ve a pretty good idea where you mean! But it might be worth a look if you haven’t already.
Aye Don I got that detail thanks. Am I right though that a hole in that pipe would be evident as a loss of sustained turbo boost as it leaks off under revs? (I dont experience that.) Aye, Corgarff was a pain! I could barely get up it!
Thanks all for your continued advice. I think it might be worth doing a full pipe renewal all around the air system even though many have already been done there's a few older sections that are possible culprits.
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7 hours ago, Eightpot said:
I guess my 300tdi Rangie ambulance camper is a fairly similar profile/weight/kit and on 235s with a 1.2 tbox - it does start to slow down a little on long uphill straights but will hold 65-70 up a long uphill drag and had it up to 87 on the flat before bottling it (in Europe of course..)
Have you checked the pump timing with a dial gauge?
I'd imagine I'm lighter than you!
Typical example - was working on the west coast a few months ago, just me and some clothes and 20-30lbs of other kit. I found myself behind a 200/300Tdi CSW with several people in it, and a small trailer (small Halfords sort) who'd pulled out from a layby. On the long run along the side of Loch Maree - miles of flat and modest undulations I easily kept pace with it. We hit the long hill up and over the pass to head back east and I was down to 4th in no time, the CSW kept drawing further. away (with NO SMOKE!) whilst I started to get black smoke, high egt's and eventually as the CSW vanished in the distance I was into 3rd and struggling and just made it to the top with little dignity and too much black smoke. Same thing happened in the eastern Cairngorms several weeks later where I had to go down to 2nd. On one particularly brutal and infamously steep section I was in low range 3rd or 4th just to make sure I managed to get to the top, but still a lot of black smoke and high egt.
I used to work for a lad in Strathspey and used his 300Tdi CSW to haul half a dozen folks and gear about around the Highlands and it went up hills like a train, would quickly hit 80 on the A9 and keep going unless I kept it in check, so I have a fair idea what the performance should be like.
Not tried a dial gauge - but understand the method - I have read about it, at the moment I'm working my way through all the anciliary things first. But it looks like I should give it try.
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37 minutes ago, hurbie said:
i would remove the rocker shaft , and measure direct in the cups off the pushrods , that way you get the direct stroke without any angels to factor in .
but it might just work ok to measure on the rocker.
and if you have the equipment i would measure the lift height of the injection pump to see if the mounting flange for the timing pin is in the right place (no personal experience but i read a couple occasions where the flange was mounted incorrect.
Ok thanks for the advice.
31 minutes ago, Eightpot said:Assuming you have good boost, compression good and fueling is set optimally, timing set accurately (with a depth guage) fueling isn't stifled by a blockage in the fuel line or pickup pipe /weak lift pump or blocked filter and you're getting all of your 110 horse power, consider your weight, wind resistance and rolling resistance. A load of weight, a roofrack, tall fat offroad tyres will suck a lot of energy from an already fairly small output. Dragging brakes, bad wheel alignment and stiff old ujs and bearings a little more. A 1.2 transfer box doesn't help on hills, and finally check the speedo - mines 10% out and always going faster than displayed. Probably stuff you've already covered but just in case.
My weight is more than standard but not ridiculous, I carry a fridge and water tank, lightweight wooden storage boxes and work surfaces, various tools etc. The lifting roof weighs less than a roof tent and rack, (and I have no rack) and the overall frontal profile is only 6 inches higher than a stock roof, so weight/aerodynamics are not OTT. Tyres are 235/85 with a AW pattern. UJ's greased regularly, brakes fettled regularly too, and wheels aligned a few months ago when the new tyres went on. 1.2 box I do have but if a Disco can haul a load of people and a horsebox up a hill I'd hope mine can do it without the people or the horsebox! I've driven a few 110 CSW full of people and have a good idea of how they perform and pull and its way better than I'm experiencing.
In fact I drove a pal's's 110 a few months back with the same setup as mine, 1.2 t/box and similar weight and it was pulling like a train and able to drag a trailer of hay uphill with considerable vigour.
I'm leaning towards the FIP and/or pump timing so if I can get a leakdown test done to rule out failures of rings/valves etc I'll try chaning the FIP for the recenlty serviced one.
Thanks for the guidance.
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9 minutes ago, hurbie said:
did they checked the timing off the pump ? , or did they checked the timing with the timingbelt ?
something else to think off , maybee a worn camshaft (you can measure the lift on the rocker's/pushrods , so no need to disassemble the complete engine for this)
Timing belt timing. Pump was just set up with the standard timing pin, however my symptoms do resemble those you'd expect from retarded timing (from what I've read, not from personal experience) and that was also on my list of thingd to check.
Never thought of a worn cam. Something else to do - can I use a dial gauge for that and just turn the crank with a socket & bar?
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26 minutes ago, Sigi_H said:
What about the hose from turbo to injection pump? It informs the pump which boost is produced.
Thanks for the reply. AFAIK from recent checks its ok. Boost is healthy - I've a boost gauge and it swings up and down immediately according to revs and stays at its hard max if a push throttle vigorously, so I'm fairly sure boost is spot on and there's no pressure loss.
31 minutes ago, hurbie said:looks pretty healthy to me , i would give the injection pump a look .
did you have the injectors checked for spray patern after the new nozzle's ?
on my Eurover project , i had the injection pump checked (just to be sure it functions propperly) , and got a replay from the shop that it's was really shot .... rust inside and some parts worn out ...
i think this is a very overlooked part of the engine (also because it's quit expensive to overhaul ...)
Thanks for the reply. AFAIK the Bosch shop checked the spray pattern when they installed the new nozzles and cleaned the injectors.
FIP was overhauled a few years back so *might* be ok, but luckily I have a spare pump which I had overhauled last week and got back from local Bosch folks yesterday, but not fitted it yet as I thought I'd eliminate any other possible culprits before getting it swapped.
I've had this issue for a long time and not got it resolved - there was a FIP problem AFTER it was previously overhauled (and Bosch shop resolved that - the horizontal fuel delivery pin that runs agasint the vertical diaphragm pin jammed during the pump test & they didn't realise as it was the last part of the flow test) but it was still a poor runner afterwards when they'd fixed it. When they did that pump overhaul/refit they checked timing and it was all ok, then the pump had to come off again as it had the problem and they checked the timing a second time so unless there's an odd gremlin the timing is also ok.
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I'm still trying to get to root of ongoing low power with my 200Tdi. Starts first turn of the key every time, winter or summer, healthy diesel clatter off it, no oil being used, nor water. Will pull hard enough on the flat and reach 70 with a long run (its pretty heavy with my additional lifting roof and gubbins) although is smoky if not under load. But show it a hill and it struggles. On the hill roads in Aberdeenshire recently (main road) I'd to use first gear then go into low range on one particularly steep hill to get up it. Lot of black smoke and high egt to accompany the struggle, so something not right.
New fuel tank a year or so ago, also Turner performance head, new fuel tank lift pipe, new feed and return lines, recent fuel filter, recent lift pump, recent injector service and nozzle replacement, and a new turbo (a few months ago - VGT from Bell Auto/Turbo Technics).
So...I bought a compression tester, pulled the glowplugs today and the results are as shown in pics. This was 4-5 cranks per cylinder and from my limited knowledge and reading online stuff this looks reasonably healthy in so far as almost consistent across all cylinders (?).
My queries are regarding the leakdown test.
1) Are the £20-£30 Ebay/amazon leakdown testers sufficent, as opposed to over £200 for name brands?
2) I dont have a compressor but do have a ViaAir tyre inflator ( 120psi) - assuming that it can be attached to the leakdown gauge can I use that instead?
Any advice gratefully received!
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Just a suggestion from experience of photographing and generally trying to photograph whilst in odd spaces - have you considered a metal tube from floor to roof, bolted each end so it’s secure. On this tube a simple metal bracket with a clamp beneath it so the clamp can be locked but the bracket can rotate on top of it. On the bracket put a bum-sized piece of wood so you have a simple seat, this would allow you to ‘tune’ the seat height to suit your own height and allow you to more comfortably sit whilst waiting for action and the difference that can make to your ‘welfare’ is significant. If you’re up for the faffing you can make the vertical tube removable (just clips into a holder at each end) so it can be removed and stowed when not required. It also has the advantage of swivelling so that you can swiftly go from left to front to right simply and easily. Something like this:
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I may have already replied to this thread and I'm having a small tipple currently and can't be bothered going back through all the pages (!) ....but I had a frozen filler cap on several occasions a couple of decades ago on the 110 and one particular year and it was a right nightmare. I solved the problem by cutting an oblong piece of old mudflap, put a finger-hole in it, and shoved it into the filler aperture where it neatly rubber-flips round the edges and stays put. Same piece of 'flap has been in there for 15 years now, through serious snow and well sub-zero temps and I've never had a repeat cap lock freeze. I pop riveted another flap onto the back door handle and it's performed the same function. Cost = zero, time = 10 minutes!
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Got an old bicycle frame lying around?
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The attemtnion to detail and construction of this is top level stuff (haven't dared look at price!)
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My five pence worth - if you cant sleep inside it, get a self-standing tent that you put up against the rear of the Landy and which allows easy in/out to it. I found this thing for a reasonable cost, self-standing so I can drive away, but cleverly has a 'snorkel' attachment between the rear of the tent and the van with a zipped entrance so you can go in and take wet gear off without going into the main tent. Really helps. Then when you want to go somewhere unclip it all, leave it up and drive away.
Now, whlst it worked it had two problems, the single skin construction leaked a bit and the wind blew underneath the 110 and could be annoying. So I got local tarpaulin maker to make a cover to go over the whole thing and a valance to fasten at the rear step area to blow wind. Works perfectly.
Dont underestimate the value of being able to go in and out of the van without having to get soaked - it gets really wearing.
If you want a budget version - get a length of keder rail (alloy stuff) and pop rivet it across back above the door. Get a big piece of fabric like I've got, sew on the associated P part that goes into the keder rail and peg out at the rear to create a budget awning (can be 'unzipped' and taken off or rolled up for travel) under that put up a small cheap one person tent. Overall cost minimal, flexibility maximum as you can get out of the tent into the van staying dry, can cook under it etc. and use the tent in other places if you need to (like on the roof on a roofrack/board if you want).
I watched 4 people in a rental 110 the other week over on the west coast in a 30mph wind and rain having an utterly miserable time trying to unfold and erect two roof tents in the dark at 10.30. By the time they got it all up, took their gear out of the 110 and got it into the repsective tents they were all soaking wet.
If you dont know keder - you get an alloy J section you fasten onto the van, a P section that sews onto the chosen fabric and then the P slides into the J to make a really tight attachment. If you want to do the drive-away function you need the )( plastic piece shown below (like two C's back to back) which allows the two sections to be separated.
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4 hours ago, Snagger said:
That sounds great. I hope you don’t get the same troubles as Mav and several others I have read about from that VNT.
I've read plenty of the good stuff, and pored over a load of the bad stuff when researching it, and after due consideration decided to give it a go. I think the variability of LR engines (of the same type!) and the 'effect' that has on the stuff you fit makes it a 50/50 decision. Eg lift pumps - folks have the same ones for years, working perfectly. Mine? Seven in a decade! Allmakes, Britpart, Delphi...tried them all, and all have failed prematurely.
I shall report back if things go south! But at the moment Ilm enjoying the novelty of a vehicle that can go up hills properly - well the modest ones so far - the major ones I've still to have a go at.
What it does point to though is the possibility of the previous turbo being carp. Oddly enough that turbo was fitted 14 years ago when the engine was out for a chassis change, the engine guy pronounced the engine in excellent condition and advised a hybrid turbo and fitted it. Engine back in by chassis lads and when they took it up the road to deliver it to me the turbo blew. They'd a bit of a wrestling match with the turbo supplier (apparently, so they informed me) but it was replaced with the one I then used for the next decade or so, and have had loads of poor running issues with. I'm just wondering now whether there was a bad batch of components or some other issue with those turbos. Who knows.
Anyway, at the moment I have stopped polluting the neighbourhood and can contemplate various local hills without worrying if I'm going to have to stop and change into low range!
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THREAD UPDATE
The poor running has been rectified! I have a new engine! Well I dont really have a new engine, its still the same one, but it certainly feels like a new one!
After a conversation with Pete Bell (IRB) I decided to remove the hybrid turbo I was recommended to fit several years ago and fit one of his VNT/VGT turbo kits instead. My goodness what a difference.
I fitted it over Thursday and Friday of last week, and yesterday took it for a gentle run and the smoothness is remarkable. I live on a hill and typically with the old turbo I’d have to use 2nd gear, and getting into 3rd was only ever only possible if I really revved it, and even then it struggled and the result was little speed increase but lots of black smoke and very high EGT’s. With the new turbo I was amazed to be able to pull up the hill cleanly in 2nd, change into 3rd and maintain very relaxed pulling ability and crucially be able to back off on the throttle in 3rd whislt still accelerating and then accelerate again and it would still pull back up to speed again without changing down a gear. What is remarkable is the attendant lack of black smoke and no high EGT’s as I would experience previously.
On the flat in 4th and 5th it pulls cleanly and smoothly, particularly in 5th where I can amble along at 1500rpm and then accelerate and it picks up speed smoothly and with considerable ooomph, and the massive drop in EGT’s across the range is very noticeable, as is the lack of black smoke throughout the rev range. Climbing up the hill above the house I was previously seeing 650Deg for modest pulling power and producing lots of smoke but yesterday doing the same I was able to climb it in a higher gear, with the EGT’s more than 200deg lower and only a light haze from the exhaust.
Watching the boost gauge as its doing all this is very interesting as the boost rises almost from 5mph and climbs steadily as it accelerates and barely drops off as change gears. Very clever stuff.
I am utterly astonished and delighted by the performance difference!
Early days yet - I need to give it a few good runs to really get a feel for it in various circumstances, but on the short test runs thus far the VGT has turned a 30 year old 300,000 mile heavy 110, which was really struggling, into a vehicle that feels as sprightly and modern as an old lump will ever feel.
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On 6/14/2022 at 6:14 PM, Peaklander said:
That's a standard 12N socket with the seven core cable and the scotchloks that are 'standard' issue for tapping each circuit but you don't need them. As far as I remember, the trailer warning lamp on the dash is already there and will give you the feedback needed that the indicators are working correctly, so you don't need that buzzer either.
As @cackshifter says, just buy a 12N socket and cable from a million outlets, with some (male) bullets to fit your twin bullet connectors that are in the corner mentioned.
I don't think you will need to change the indicator relay, as it's ready for the higher current draw from the additional lamps on the trailer. I have LEDs now and the flasher has an adjuster to compensate and get the flash rate stable.
Grand thanks.
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1 hour ago, cackshifter said:
Mine just has a piece of 7 core cable coming through the floor, with the end bulleted, the other end goes into the back of the socket. It's nothing fancy.
Does it look like the loom in the pic here? Cant imagine there's much difference if its 7 pin.
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Ah ok - I've just found out that the loom I was trying to obtain from Autosparks is not available for a few weeks and if I could obtain one sooner that would be really helpful.
Can someone confirm if the part RTC8872 which I *think* is what I need encompasses my 1989 model year as some of the stuff I'm reading whilst searching suggests its 1990 onwards, but I'm assuming that not much changed with the wiring in later years until beyond the 300tdi's ??
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In fact if you want to try it I can post you some - there's a roll floating about here if you want to experiment with a piece of it. Mind you, having just pulled it out of the drawer I suspect Velcro is likely much stronger!
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Magnetic sticky tape? Its probably strong enough for that.
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Thank you all thats very helpful. I have a *vague* recollection of seeing a connector of some sort but its so long since I delved into that part of the van I cant remember!
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1989 110
As far as I can establish, from searching online, the tow bar wiring harness is attached to the main wiring loom at the rear right (drivers side).
From looking at pictures of new pattern looms it seems that the tow bar loom has bullet connectors, but before I delve into the guts of the van (which will involve laborious removal of some built-in internal stuff first) can anyone tell me if the actual connection point for the tow bar loom to the main wiring harness is internal beside the rear lighting wire cluster, or external tucked into the area between fuel tank and rear crossmember?
I *assume* the connections for the tow bar wiring are individual take-offs from from each wire as opposed to a group of them terminating in a multi-plug type thing?
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23 hours ago, Escape said:
We've had another case of Nightbreakers blowing due to over-voltage caused by a failed regulator. They are pretty high strung to give that much light, so probably not as much margin as on a conventional bulb. Supposedly they don't last as long under normal use either, but I've yet had to replace one despite using them for many years in several vehicles.
The old adage of 'no free lunch' then! I was fooled by the fact that only one of the filaments blew in each bulb, and on both lights at same time. Lesson learned!
Leakdown Test Kit
in Tools and Fabrication
Posted
Thanks - I wasn't sure about any of this stuff - its all new territory for me. The compression test seemed to tick all the boxes for a sound engine (from what I've read about such tests and what they indicate). My only additional thought was whether the leakdown test would allow pinpointing of specific pressure loss areas in the system which might account for my (apparent) lack of air in the combustion sequence despite everything *seeming* to be otherwise ok.
I'm taking the radiator out shortly for a recore, so will pull the intercooler out for a flush and remove and check carefully all the piping from the air intake(s) (I have two) to the engine to ensure all the hoses are intact. If thats all ok, then I have the recently overhauled FIP to install and will also do a timing belt change as well and make sure all the engine timing is spot on.