Alsace_rangie Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 97 300TDI, LHD. Looking for some help on diagnostics. Starter motor is always a slow turn, but gets the car going. From time to time the click to turn the car over gives nothing. Sometimes seems related to not letting the glow plug light go out. Solenoid on the starter was replaced about 4 years ago. Today dead. Can hear various clicks inside the car when I turn the key on/off. Note trying the starter does cut the heater blower, which I think is correct behaviour? After a lot of turning the key to try to locate the "clicks" and therefore relays, it suddenly turned over, albeit sluggishly. Car started so at least I can get it into the garage. Can a relay cause these intermittent symptoms? Get a lot of conflicting info on where the relays are, so any help in identifying then appreciated. Or is it likely a dead starter motor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giles Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 Zut ! My go-to for this kinda stuff is to remove, clean/lightly sand etc., and replace all chassis/gearbox/engine earths + the main battery connections & earth lead. Cheaper and quicker than anything else, plus seems like a good way to start fault-finding Bon courage, bonne année et bonne route 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alsace_rangie Posted January 14 Author Share Posted January 14 Et bonne année a vous ausssi! Had a go at the earth leads not long ago. Added another in braided copper just for good measure! Should have mentioned that this was in a spell of cold weather; the car was outside at -8C. This morning in the garage (not heated) it turned over first try, which makes trouble-shooting that much harder🙂 Will now have to wait till it fails again, but that will probably be somewhere very inconvenient. I did find 3 relays behind the trim in the RH footwell, but no idea which one (if any) was the starter relay. Mind you, not really sure what the relay does given that the solenoid on the starter motor acts as a relay anyway.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nonimouse Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 Interesting. My first go to would have been earths, then battery cranking My 200 will start first time in -16, with glow-plugs. It has started on 9.4 volts on a warm day after two years in a shed. Yet yesterday at +5 it took three goes to start it. Weird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alsace_rangie Posted January 17 Author Share Posted January 17 So it has behaved impeccably the last few days. In line with above advice, any sluggishness probably due to earths, poor solenoid contacts or the motor. Beginning to worry that the "dead" symptom may be linked to the anti-theft spider. Not looking forward to dismantling half the dashboard ☹️ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nonimouse Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 Is it an EDC engine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alsace_rangie Posted January 17 Author Share Posted January 17 No, nice steel throttle cable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alsace_rangie Posted January 21 Author Share Posted January 21 So, issue came back AFTER being outside below -5. Once it warms up, the starter turns. Next day, managed to get to the 12 volt feed connection on the solenoid before it warmed up. With a meter, had a voltage, but variable between 12 and 4 V. Could be just the meter connections. Starting to look more like the solenoid sticking when cold as it started after a while. So I have put in a piggy-back connection on the solenoid, with a wire leading up to where I can easily and quickly reach it. Will allow me to get a better connection with the meter next time it happens. Plus I can use it to activate the starter if it won't turn (to get the car moving!) But could a poor relay cause reduced voltage rather than just no current? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alsace_rangie Posted January 31 Author Share Posted January 31 To close this out: Found the starter relay, right hand footwell behind the side trim. Took it out to check it, worked fine with no resistance across the switch when activated. Next day, cold morning and the starter just moved a bit. Try again, same. Third go, sluggishly turned over and started. So certain it was the motor. Got a new one and fitted it, all very good. Old one is a Bosch, so took it apart to see if I could repair it as a stand-by. First, the rubber boot on the solenoid was torn so that could have been jamming on cold days when it was less flexible. So take it off, not really needed! Then took off the cover. As normal, the carbon brushes should pop out, but only 3 of them did this. 4th one I had to prise it out with a screwdriver. Once all cleaned up, moved fine. So I guess this was the main problem. Brushes are worn, but not completely gone. Anyway, replacing them means a soldering job but I think they'll be OK. Will clean it all up and reassemble. Also have a Valeo motor, but I can't get it apart to check it out. The solenoid is held on by 2 small (7mm) nuts but they are recessed and I can't get a socket or spanner on to them. Never mind..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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