What about Td5

[Shackleton]

Folks, this TdV6 for my conversion is taking a long time to materialise. I don't want to be still tackling this coming up to Christmas so I'm begining to wonder whether I should just go Td5.

My pals '03 110 hardback crew cab goes really nice, I'd go as far as to say that to drive the feels better then the sum of it's power figures and it's not chipped or modded in any way.

But I havent' done my homework on the Td5, there's a great article in one of the mags just gone but in terms of longevity whats the consensus. Is the Td5 a 2/300k mile motor if looked after?

I've heard that the bottom end is vunerable. Whats that all about - vunerable to damage from what?

Any thoughts?

George

[300bhp/ton]

Dunno if it helps but you might want to try somewhere like Universal Salvage for a TDV6, even if you had to buy a recked vehicle take the engine out and break the rest. Look for S-Type Jags as they have esentially the same engine.

As for the TD5, well for some reason it still appears to get a bad rap in circles although it's been in production longer than the 200 and 300TDi combined. I'm sure there are issues with the TD5 but aren't there issues with every single engine in existance. I know alot of people running TD5's with no trouble at all.

Another possible option might be the new 16v DOHC 2.4 litre unit from the Defender. It not as long as the Td5 but taller (might need to check clearances). But should be pretty easy to find as it's been in the Ford Transit for quite a few years, plus it actually has more power in the Transit than the new Defender. You could always swap on some LR covers and such.

Keep us posted though, especially if you go TD5 as I'd love to see one being put in a older vehicle. I so nearly did this last year when I replaced the engine in my Discovery but to save time/money I opted to stick with a replacement 200Tdi.

[Shackleton]

Cheers, had already been on their site - I've been on any salvage site I can find in UK and Ireland. It's hard trying to keep an eye on them.

Yeah the idea has always been to source a full vehicle, it'd be impossible toget a conversion running without it's own loom / security / ECM etc...

I've been half keeping my eye out for the S-Type version too. The only person in the world who has successfully (reportedly) done a tdv6 conversion used the S-type twin turbo. And the more I think about it the more sense that makes.

And RE Td5 - I've never heard of anyone really complaining, or of major problems. But then I'm not a Td5 stalker

[q-rover]

I know there i a RRC running a Td5 in Iceland.

Also didn't someone make a NAS replica with a Td5 engine...

So it is possible.

[Porny]

I know there i a RRC running a Td5 in Iceland.

Also didn't someone make a NAS replica with a Td5 engine...

So it is possible.

Shackleton - have just realised I haven't replied to your pm (will send you one shortly)

Td5 conversion wise... it should be more than possible. I was helping someone in America do the same conversion - but into a 300Tdi Disco.

Basically... electrical wise just set the engine up as Defedender spec Td5 - so use a modified Defender dashboard loom (well bits of), a defender spec ECU (though this may not actually matter as you will probably run the RR coolant sensor so that the dashboard still works), a Defender (or a Disco 300Tdi) 10AS alarm unit and a Discovery Td5 throttle.

I could sort you all the connections you actually need to make the engine run, so you would just need to integrate it into the RR Dashboard/dashboard loom.

You can get away with running a 10AS subsitute box - but really for normal use (i.e. not in a racer) you may as well run the 10AS unit.... actually thinking about it in RR (which doesn't have a 10AS unit as standard as per a 300Tdi Disco) a little black box would make more sense

The actual engine can be either a Defender or a Disco spec one, as they are virtually identical. But you would need to run the Disco or Defeder spec R380 gearbox (or get rakeway - at vast expense no doubt - to make you a custom bellhousing).

Cooling wise, I think you would be better off with the Defender spec radiator and intercooler - as the Defender intercooler is slightly narrower.

TDV6....

The biggest problem with trying to use a TdV6 is the injectors. Nobody to my knowledge has developed an aftermarket ECU with correct drivers for Piezo electric injectors... and to run either a Disco or Jag ECU setup would be an absolute pain in the arse IMHO.

Ian

[Shackleton]

Ok so a difficult decision has been made. Td5 it is.

I still hanker after the V6 but there are umpteen reasons why it just isn't gonna happen. Mainly that I can't actually get my hands on one, plus I'll have lots more free cash left over for beefing up the axles etc. I'll hopefully be able to go with ARB air lockers and have onboard air and everything!!!

Sorry I shouldn't get so excited.

So questions; or more here's the spec I'm thinking of - I need you're collective opinions and experiences with any of this gear.

Td5 - did I hear right that there's a slightly better engine around 2002?

Intercooler / power upgrade - who's good J.J. Fearn / Allisport / JE Engineering. I don't want a huge increase if it's gonna compromise the engine, just a little more and mpg.

R380

GKN Overdrive

Ashcroft Shafts / CV's / Flanges

ARB Air Lockers front & rear

Can anyone speculate what I'll need to do with my prop shafts? Use the RR ones - presumably the Defender ones will be too long or too short.

Is getting rid of the dual mass flywheel a good idea? I'm not gonna be doing any major offroading (the ARB's are a treat) so if it's better to keep it so be it.

What do you reckon!

George

[Porny]

Td5 - did I hear right that there's a slightly better engine around 2002?

2002 did see some improvements... most of the changes were to meet EU legislation - but there were other improvements... mainly the use of metal dowels in the head (instead of plastic - although you can 'upgrade' some but not all earlier Td5s with plastic dowels) and a few other bits (including a slightly different head)

Intercooler / power upgrade - who's good J.J. Fearn / Allisport / JE Engineering. I don't want a huge increase if it's gonna compromise the engine, just a little more and mpg.

Blatent spam... but I could do this for you - can do a remap as per your requirements and should be cheaper than most!

R380

If you go for an R380 it saves any extra expense in getting custom bellhousings made... and it means everything is off the shelf. Am I correct in thinking you have a (long stick) LT95 at the moment?... if you used a Defender setup the gear lever would end up in roughly the right place... or even just use a Disco Td5 R380 and fit a later console.

GKN Overdrive

Do make quite a difference... but £££ - other option is a Disco transfer box, but you may overgear yourself depending on what size tyres your using...

Ashcroft Shafts / CV's / Flanges

ARB Air Lockers front & rear

Can anyone speculate what I'll need to do with my prop shafts? Use the RR ones - presumably the Defender ones will be too long or too short.

Depends which gearbox you use. If you got Disco then depening on engine location the Disco front one should fit... and in theory so should the rear - same wheelbase - but can't remember if PCD or bolt numbers are different at the prop end.

And visa versa... if you run a Defender set up, the front one should be close... but rear will be a custom jobbie.

Is getting rid of the dual mass flywheel a good idea? I'm not gonna be doing any major offroading (the ARB's are a treat) so if it's better to keep it so be it.

Yes and no.... a dual mass flywheel when it works is fine. And the later Td5's don't seem to suffer as per early Td5's. But then a Rakeway solid affair isn't cheap AFAIK and I'm not sure how much of an improvement you will see.

Ian

[300bhp/ton]

Ok so a difficult decision has been made. Td5 it is.

I still hanker after the V6 but there are umpteen reasons why it just isn't gonna happen. Mainly that I can't actually get my hands on one, plus I'll have lots more free cash left over for beefing up the axles etc. I'll hopefully be able to go with ARB air lockers and have onboard air and everything!!!

Sorry I shouldn't get so excited.

So questions; or more here's the spec I'm thinking of - I need you're collective opinions and experiences with any of this gear.

Td5 - did I hear right that there's a slightly better engine around 2002?

Intercooler / power upgrade - who's good J.J. Fearn / Allisport / JE Engineering. I don't want a huge increase if it's gonna compromise the engine, just a little more and mpg.

R380

GKN Overdrive

Ashcroft Shafts / CV's / Flanges

ARB Air Lockers front & rear

Can anyone speculate what I'll need to do with my prop shafts? Use the RR ones - presumably the Defender ones will be too long or too short.

Is getting rid of the dual mass flywheel a good idea? I'm not gonna be doing any major offroading (the ARB's are a treat) so if it's better to keep it so be it.

What do you reckon!

George

I've got a Allisport intercooler on my TDI, they also fitted and tuned the engine for me. All I can say was great service and it made a BIG difference to performance, I'd certainly recommend them.

My Uncle had his 300Tdi modded by Jeremy J Fearn and he got top notch service from them, although I think he paid a tad more.

Twisted Performance seem to have a good reputation and they have a 220bhp TD5 Defender using only bolt ons and a tune.

I'd be tempted to get in contact with one of the Land Rover mags about your project. I'm sure they'd want to cover it.

I spoke with I think Land Rover Owner last year when I was considering putting a TD5 in my 1990 Discovery and they seemed very keen on doing an article on it, provided I had plenty of pictures of before, during and after the conversion.

[Shackleton]

I certainly had that in mind especially considering that I'm in communications, have journalistic experience and also want a hardfast record of the job...

So RE overgearing, put it this way apart from a strange engine note, to any trained eye I'll be driving a factory spec 1973 Range Rover. So 16" Rubery Owens... Should I be asking for a Disco R380? And why is ther a difference between the Disco and Defender boxes/props?

Thanks for the info chaps, I've had some bad news at the weekend and just don't have the energy to think about this in earnest for a few days but will be making a call to request a TD5 before the week is out.

George

PS - Ian, we'll talk!

[landybehr]

Just FYI, ´cause I recently heard that.

Early TD5 are supposed to have plastic! pins/dowels that locate the cylinder head on the block until the head bolts are tightened.

A friend has seen one TD5 where the plastic couldn´t keep the head from moving in duty (might think that´s the job of the bolts) - when he removed the head it was apparent the the plastic pins were "shifted" with the head and some exhaust valves already no longer were centered over the bore but started to bite into the cylinder wall - luckily about where the upper piston ring ends, so no real worry, engine was tight and gave no signs/clues for this being a problem.

Seems like Rover exchanged that dowel with a steel one after a while.