Hydraulic winches

[white90]

from (Alfred Murray Ltd).

1. The ZF74 doesn't need a clutch and it is not advisable to use one. So you bolt the pump on, pulley it up and away you go, KISS. We have twin crank pulleys if you don't and at 10feet/min 4.7 tonne single line pull, it compares with many electric winches on speed unless the pull is through a puddle. Then the worse the conditions the more advantage you have.

2. We have tested the winch with a Citroen Saxo electric PS pump. Pulled a Disco with the handbrake on, through gravel, or about 1 tonne line load 15 metres using a disconnected battery and drew between 20 and 34 amps, much less than an electric winch and still had 12.36 volts on the battery after the pull. This was to demonstrate the solution to the "dead-engine" scenario. However, the line speed was slow with only 5 litres/min, but it is a backup, or fit 2 in parallel and you have 10 litres/min.

There are lots of other electric pumps, forklift, tailgate lift amd general industrial pumps but remember the higher the flowrate the more amps. Still less than an electric winch because the system is more efficient. I would aim for 12 litre/min at 120 bar.

If you are planing on using a higher consumption mechanical pump with speed related flow, a clutch will be required. A/C pump electric clutches are generally rated at 4-6hp which is about what you can expect from most V or flat belts, so that is the limiting factor.

A simple way of crudely calculating power consumption is:- 1 usgpm (3.75l/m) at 1500 psi (103 bar) = 1 hp (.71kw)

On the Type R we get round this power transmission problem with a 1/2" chain drive straight off the crank and a simple "dog clutch". 30 horsepower in tap, or 10 times any battery powered winch.

There are a few people selling second hand PTO's, but be sure everything is clean inside. Our Maxidrive units fit only LT230 transfer boxes, so can't help.

I prefer mechanical pumps any day to electic pump, fewer parts and much longer MTBF rates.

MM on a very nice machine

TYPE R

PTO driven pump

Maxidrive PTO pump

Dedicated pump

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

Heres the 1st.

Basics of Hydraulic winches.

I have had a number of PMs asking me similar questions around hydrauilc winches, so I thought it might be useful to do a post which covers many of these basic questions, and gives the reader a simple and basic understanding of how they work, .......and what the process is to fit, pros cons and options.

It is fair to say that the below comments are very basic, ...........and those who have a high level of knowledge would argue that these comments are not 100% correct, ...........true, ...............but they are true in SIMPLE terms, ..............and as such easy to understand,

ie the comment about FLOW = Speed and PRESSURE = Pulling Power is in really simple terms true, but in more complex discussions there is a correlation, and a link between the 2, and that would be a long lengthy and incomprehensible post at best, .......as such bear in mind the notes below are simple and easy and basic, if you wnat more detail then feel free to ask.

Ok

Hydraulic winches.

Pros.

IMMENSELY POWERFULL, frankly they will against the majority of winches pull, all day, and work non stop, at maximum power, and handle it, some would say that the MileMarker will pull all day cos its that slow it will need all day, and to a degree that is true.

Reliable, and simple (but ONLY once you have installed it) simple is terms that there is little to go wrong, and they are relaible .........with a minimum of maintenance keep the oil checked clean change, change filter and ....thats about it !.

More power and speed can be gained by upgrades, and the electrical problems that cause headaches for so many electric winches do not exist.

Cons.

Complex to fit, .............very complex to fit. ..................

NOT a '1/2 day and done', even the MM kits take time to sort, custom kits....aaargh , well my front took 3 months !...

Cost. .............And its a big one, ..............do NOT think these little gems are cheap.

Custom stuff like mine is just madness !.

Its not that the parts are expensive, actaully hydraulic bits are quite cheap, but the AMOUNT of bits you'll need is amazing !..Oh and a superwinch H14W Hydraulic kit for a 90 / 110 / 130 is..... £6500 + vat (yes you read that correctly)

Take unions for example, £5 each average for a 90 degree bend, then you'll need a ferrule (the part that goes on the outside and is crimped to the hose with the union on the inside) £1, then say couple of quid for them to crimp it.... I have on my front winch 14 of these.....Hose £6-8 per metre - I used 18 metres, and so it goes on....

Dead engine, = dead winch, ALL hydraulic PTO and PAS or Crank driven units become useless when dead engine, many will argue that an electric winch with no engine won't pull for long, but, and its a key one............... it WILL pull at least for some time / power.

Speed, the main reason many knock the poor old MileMarker, ...............but it not something that is not fixable....but at a cost ................both money wise and timewise.

Rarity, for every 40x electric winches, theres maybe 1 Hydraulic.....the reasons are combinations of the above.........

Dangerous. Hydraulic fliud under say 2000- 35000 psi will.... if a pipe fractures .....cut through right through your clothes, your skin and through your bones, DO NOT EVER HAVE HIGH PRESSURE PIPES INSIDE THE CAB - EVER

Drive assist, some say drive assist was introduced to help poor powered electric winches do their job, .........and that Hydraulic don't need to have it as the power is just going to be more than enough, ...........true, BUT drive assist helps in POSITIONING your 4x4 in recovery, and although drive assist is very very if not next to impossible to do with hydraulic (or mechanical) it can be done to a degree partly, ...........but needs a lot of skill and practice, and sometimes even then doesn't always work !

So, if you have got this far and still fancy a Hydraulic unit what are the options ?

MileMarker.

Underestimated, will pull all day (yes I know it takes that long), they are DREADFULLY SLOW, period. They will pull when electric ones have given up, overheated, stalled or just plain stopped playing, ......................but BOY are they slow.

Dedicated pump, ummmm yeah,............. bit like saying which way do you wnat to die,.... shot or poisoned, ?....neither is particualrly endearing, ................the dedicated pump is quicker,.......... but gawd its still dreadfully slow, ...............and frankly disappointing.

PTO ?...ah ha B) NOW your talking, but you now into the cost (£350-450 for a PTO unit), sh rare, and complexity in fitting...............

PTO driven is a whole different world. Throw away silly PAS pumps, and fit a BIG pump, now the MileMarker true potentail is released, .............and its fast, .............very fast, and don''t forget, electric winches slow down as the forces of winches kick in hydraulic don't, its the same speed for winching at max pull (almost) as freespooliong rope back on the drum !...oh and now with a PTO by choseing say 1 rather than 4 or 2 or 3rd gear at 1000 or 1500 rpm you can infinately control speed up or down, fast medium or slow for control.....

So, that the background ...............whats a Hydraulic system made up of then ?

Ok, using my "Thing" as an example here are the main components :

TANK :

Spool Block, or Control Block:

'Kin Thing' (Big Winch) :

There are other things I have in my system, some are also in the above photos, but some I haven't done any photos....

PTO and Pump,

Overcentre Valve,

Pressure relief valve

Oil Cooler.

Ok, taking each of these in turn, and this set up is different to a MileMarker.......I will explain both, but mine 1st....

TANK.

For a BIG POWERFUL & FAST Hydrualic winch you MUST have a tank.

This is to keep the fliud cool, the more fliud you have on board the less likely it is to get hot. When oil gets hots it goes thinner, and when oil goes thinner the pressure dropsm, so JUST when you need maxium power from you winch the fliud gets hot, and the power drops....

All tanks are NOT equal, some are simple tanks, with a in and out, mine is a H14W H EB unit, .....posh ?.....yeh I would say............

It has a built in filter in the High Pressure line AND a filter in the low pressure return (if you go the route of a PTO conversion DO FIT AN IN LINE FILTER on the return pipe, HP Filters are horredously expensive 10 microns will be fine).

It has an out to pump and a return, and inside is a work of art, returning oil, hot and thin, goes into a sub chamber leaking out into the main tank, where the new cool rethickened oil is taken from, and a swirl chamber under the pump pipe ensures fliud even when tank at silly angles...price new brace yourself ....£1280 + Vat....mine was SH and rare as hell !

Oil getting hot from winch really pulling means hot oil and pressure dropping etc It is directly proportional to the force apllied, so the harder the winch works, the hotter the oil gets, if a small capacity the oil can and will heat up and effect performace fast......add LOADS of oil (I have 33 litres capacity) and to heat this lot the winch has to really be worked, ...........and the oil cooler (in the return pipe) makes sure too !...flat out serious recovery for 1 hour and oil barely warm in the tank.............

CONTROL BLOCK

In simple terms a on / off / on lever.

One "ON" is say backwards, and the other forwards, let go and it locks into neutral.

Mine here is a TWIN spool block, ie to run 2 seperate units, my plan is to ultimately have a rear milemarker plumbed into the main system.

It would be possible to use both at the same time, pulling or releasing, always fancied a 97 inch 90 ?

The control block (and mine here is the example ) has a number of features.

Ports. these are holes, in this coutry we use BSP, mine are 1/2 BSP (more later). On my block there are a number of these, they do the following, most blocks are similar.

The 1st port is the P port. This takes in fliud FROM the pump, and is 1/2 BSP, on the opposite side is a port marked T, this is the Return to the tank, and is LOW pressure, so safe if it splits - messy but safe, this goes back to the return union on the tank.

There are then 2 port under each of the 2 levers, they are basically exitentry ports. that is to say there is not an in and an out, it is how you plumb them in, you basically join these to the 2 ports on the winch, and start up and pull the lever, if the winch goes opposite to the rotation you would like swap the fittings and pipes around either the winch end of the block end, so in effect you just reverse it, in simple terms, these two ports are either fliud to winch and fliud return from winch OR fliud return from winch and fliud to winch.

With a PTO system with the PTO enaged and the pump running if the lever is in neutral the fliud goes from the tank into the pump (through a bigger pipe (HUGE MINE IS 1 1/3 inches BORE !) from the pump to the Block, and if the lever is in neutral out of the block and lows to the return into the tank, the system is then self cooling even in neutral.

When you pull the lever, the T is closed and port opened to the winch, this then drives the winch.

WARNING, if the winch is used to a point where it exceeds the pressure of the fliud (more later) then you may blow a pipe (unless the pipes are well in excess of pressures, normally pipes that blow are chaffed damged in some way) or the seals in thw winch motor will come and see daylight, along with loads of oil under pressure. To AVOID this you must have a PRV - pressure relief valve, so that the pressure maximum is set to trigger a valve blow off which bypasses the port to to winch back to T and dumps excess pressure (the winch will still have as much pressure in it as the PRV allows) and fliud back to the tank.

This is the silver pencil thingy sticking out of the control block...the other possiblity, is the pump pumps and pumps and pumps and then the pump shaft blows apart....this situation of seals letting go, pipes splitting and shafts breaking are nil with a PAS Powered MM as the forces are just not enough.............

OVERCENTRE VALVE.

This on mine is the silver lump on the drivers side of the winch wuith the 2 pipes going into it. In simple terms this is a one way 2 way valve. IF any pipe bursts this unit senses that the pressure has dropped, and then trips out, locking the fliusd in the winch and stopping it dead, without it no pressure mean say the winch is on a slope hanging on the rope, the pressure drops to zero, and the winch then unwinds yeeek !

Its therefore a 1 way valve, but works either forward or reverse, so it 2 way one way !

These are non fitted to a MileMarker, you can fit them, and if you do get it as close to the winch motor as you can.....

Mine has an oil cooler, this extra bit of plumbing goes between the T on the spool block and the return to the tank line, another 8 metres of pipe and 4 unions etc...........

Fliud....MileMarker use ATF why ?, cos that what a PAS uses. PTO systems use proper Hyd Oil EP32 in mine, all 33 litres of it, and it is the proper stuff, PAS pumps don't like it, which bring me to pressure and flow.

PRESSURE is the part of the system that gives you the pulling power, think of a hose, turn on the tap ans it poors out of the end a few feet, shove you thumb over the end, same flow, but now you can jey the tree 30 foot away - pressure....as the pressure goes up, it pulls harder, this is actually the winch demanding more from the system to overcome the resistance, the PRV just stops the system self destructing...

FLOW gives you speed, back to the hosepipe, turn the tap on a bit, the flow is low, increase the tap flow increases, thats what gives speed to a winch, and why the MM is so slow, the flow is pityfull, even the dedicated pump, much much better but cannot even come close to a PTO pump, and these come in differing powers to, 10-50 Litres Per Min (LPM), you must check the winch technical specs for nmaxium flow and pressures, mine is 2650 PSI and 50 LPM, a MM is 1750 PSI 18-25 LPM max, but this will be at 1000-1500 rpm dependant on pump set up..............

However, there is a link between pressure and flow but I am not going to cover in in any real depth here, only to say that if you go PTO and have 20 LPM or more you should up pipe size to 1/2 BSP INCLUDING ALL PORTS in the block, NOT 3/8s......1/2 will be ok up to 80+LPM !, and 1/2 BSP SYSTEM needs a pipe from Tank to PUMP of minimum 1" BSP !

What else ?...

Rope ?....12mm plasma for this "Thing", MM use 11mm if PTO'd 10mm or even 9.5mm if PAS Ded Pump...

Winch bumpers, 6mm minimum 8-10mm more sensible, lots of bracings, as these will pull fixings bumpers bolts apart for fun, I have re-infoerced the front of my chassis, the bumper base is 10mm, the front 8mm with a lip folded in at the top, 8mm sides, gussets everywhere and 12.8 ton bolts - all 28 holding the winch onto the bumper and the bumper to the front end.....

When you have done the above, you can confidently do things like this (where a 8274 and a M1000 together had stalled- I didn't know, got flagged down, connceted nine and pulled - out she came !)

Hydraulic power......................Love it B)

Nige

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

Fitting a MileMarker PTO driven to the Rear of a 90.

Evening Forumeers...... story of a winch fit from hell………..

After 3 days work the 90 actually has a rear winch sort of test fitted, but needs to have some more fabrication & welding and then be plumbed in...

so Part A of the joys of making a MM fit the back of My 90...........

This then is a guide full of the U turns problems and sheer “Joys” that I have had, read this and if you do this to yours it will be a load easier !

I ACTUALLY had a week off from work, Plan was (is) to fit a 2nd hand Mile Marker I've Bought to the rear, then plumb up and run from the gearbox driven PTO and 40 litre tank already in it, and link to it sharing the tank etc and the PTO….for a MileMarker a PTO conversion will give it max power and 'real' speed....

1st was to get it fitted.... Much thinking around this gave me ‘Plan A’, (didn’t work long term)….Some work saw a 6mm folded plate containing my sh Mile Marker and then plan was to fit between rear chassis rails and have either welded or pref bolted into place etc etc etc......

Much beer and thought gave me, a load of work that really wasn’t that neat, its one of the sheer joys of fabrication !!!!!!!!!!!, so I then moved on to :

Plan B, take a basically copied unwelded southdown guard, modify the absolute hell out of it by incorporating the MM mounts, and then have a guard and with some extra work a guard which could have a decent trailer tow hitch bolted into captive fittings, this would be mega strong, guard the back end from damage and give me a winch which should fit into the space at the back end of the 90, without cutting into the rear cross member OR being any higher than the load floor, this then means a winch without the drawbacks of the ones many have.

Having thought this through, I was sure it could be done, in addition my longer term plan was to modify the MileMarker so that the free spool could be operated by means of an air clutch from the drivers seat, if I could do this then I could free spool, and winch in and out without either leaving the drivers seat or even opening the rear door !

With the standard rectangle cut for the winch throat, the plate was made and modded and then cardboard templates made into 6mm plate (ta Tonk for off cuts ), and then tacked, tested for fit and then welded up....

Not a straightforward jobbie, especially as the liner had to be changed (melted it with 220 amps flat out 10mm + 6mm plate welding, replaced cooker fuses, compressor fuses plasma fuses, space heater packed up, killed my cordless drill (smoked big time then bin..., band saw blade broke you know how things are sometimes .....

I was DETERMINED to carry on, and as a result I now have this :

The basic tray has huge (HUGE) 6mm pillars to basically have the MM bolted into ........4 bolts on front and 2 from underneath, I still have to make the side ears for the final extra strength, remember this is driven from a Gearbox PTO pump system, ........it is REALLY going to pull !

Now, the other thing I have tried to do is leave my entire cross member intact, no letter box etc... The cable is going to run between the top flat face of the crossmember and the bottom surface of the floor,.... this will be through a tubular hawse fairleads, on the rear cross member.... it will be very very very tight

The way this is done is think of the winch mounted of the front, the cable is pulled via rotation of the drum from the bottom and onto the drum, think of the winch still connected at the front,….. but with the cable coming out of the back,…….. the cable still goes on the drum with the same rotation but the cable is now at the top... yippee, just reduced the height problem !…if I don’t do this the winch will intrude into the load space to have the rope above the top of the crossmember…..

This is what I am planning on the rear MM fitting, ....problem is strength .....as the pressures on the mount will now be higher then normal, hence the massive construction of what is in effect the rear winch bumper.......

now mounted and bolted in place...

and with MM bolted in photo looking down from top

I have made it so it is a flush fit onto the rear of the rear crossmember to give extra strength and stop flexing of the 'towers'....probably stand a small nuclear explosion soon !

and here is the High positioned narrow wire entry box, you can just see the top on the drum, i.e. the ropes lowest point will be just above the top of the rear crossmember...

next is to do is finish off the 2x 'side ears', and then make up the fairleads, then plumb into the existing PTO system (that will be fun)..... Er yeah, as it says, thought this would have been done by now, but Nooo still at it ;

So, have now made the complete unit to house the PTO driven rear MM :

This houses the main unit, with all the steel work holding the MM in Place, ....just above the top of the rear cross member, as you can see side panels have 'grown' onto it and these have also 'returns' welded to the top for extra strength, all is sea welded everywhere !...

6mm and 5mm plate everywhere ! …Top across the winch is 10mm, and the bolt heads are flush with the bottom of the floor cover... MM Pump has been rotated so as to have pipes in a better position, ............and so floor remains 'flat' : just undo the 2 bolts and turn to the 2 taped holes and rebolt up !…handy

Close up of LHS wing strengther :

This is the view from the top of the crossmember, the idea was to have a rear winch without destroying the rear cross member, keeping the recovery point centre of the rear cross member and a simple drop plate for towing etc :

So, some 3 days solid fabrication, ....and a number of bolts (3x in shear each side = total 6, plus 3x bottom of cross member (9) also in shear x3, )12)and 2x huge M18 in tension) (14) and 2x top (16) should hold it all in place............

The rear cross member stays unmodified, ....... the winch has x8 bolts holding it in place (2x through bottom, 4 front and 2x top) and the whole unit is a 'press fit' up against the back rear cross member, .......... loads of gussets and strengtheners mean this should stay put :

'All' that now left ( HAHAHAHAHAHAHA) is to make up pipes and connectors etc and plumb up to PTO pump tank etc, and the pipework, and solenoids etc, and maybe a few drain holes to the plate before having it passivated

JUST TAKES SO LONG , I NEVER learn re time for fabrication, but am so far quite pleased with results........

Some weeks later………………………..

I can never seem to learn how long mods and fabrication seems to take...

Anyway, one reason for the delay in finishing and having the Rear MileMarker working is this below :

The "Clue" is the grey tube thingy sticking out of the Hydraulic Winch....

are the 2 pipes running along the top of the front wing...

Yes, I have nicked (no nicer way of saying it !) Pauls idea of Air Operated Freespool(s), and started with the front, tends to slow down work on the rear MileMarker this needed a bit of 'modification' and machining to make fit / work, ..........but it does.

I already had the ARB compressor, so with a few T pieces extra solenoids and pipework and wiring switches and panel work I had the front done, ...the 'cubby box' between the seats EVENTUALLY was decided upon as where to have the pair of switches, much chopping about and reducing the front of it, making up bits of wood, gluing in, recutting the black trim to refit smaller cubby box, and still being able to access the winch control ports (Lift up flap and screw in levers) oh and 2 plates were made up for 2x IP 67 switches with little pictures of a front and a rear winch, just to have the 'bling' factor complete these were engraved....gave me this...

Yoooow checkitout....yes sad I know

and as you can see one says 'front' and one says 'back'.... and heres the back,......... this shows the mounted MileMarker complete with Air solenoid and a bit of fabrication to hold plus 2 pipes one in and a vent.

Working out the power required resulted in me working out PSI to BAR to NM to things I have never heard of, a fishing spring told me 25 lbs pull was needed to operate the free spool, and eventually I had something that I had worked out should do it....

so armed with a part number of to the 'air solenoid shop' ..........

" Er 1 of these please"...........

It was Sooooooooooo small I laughed, about the size of 2 boxes of matches, I said "Nah give me something say 3x bigger"./..

Go home connected up vice, solenoid, arb, fishing spring and other vice and pressed button.

Result.

Spring exploded as it was ripped apart, 2nd vice moved towards 1st, and went back, shuffed feet picked up original small thing laughed, and drove home picking up new fishing spring weight on the way

Should learn to trust background work I do !

New assemble produced 30 lbs pull nicely, that will do, and bracket made to carry and shimmed for 8.5mm pull not 10mm which air Solenoid does, means I am not hitting the "Stop" on the MM but it does work and fully disengage and engage...

The Mile Marker has a low box and a high box, the high box is purely for winching back in the cable when you have finished, I don't / won't need this as it is PTO driven, and in normal MM winching the winch is set to low and free spool for the high lever.

This (on the far RHS) has been modded the lever removed so the high box is ALWAYS in free spool, see little collar built to replace lever, the LOW lever has the air solenoid on it so that I can disengage and reengage the MM from the seat.

This will means that I can cover the winch up, and plans are to have it so that it can be operated without even opening the rear door

It can have the freewheel engaged from the drivers / passengers seat, reengaged, and also a switch will be going in soon to have in / out function at the driver seat, plus a wander lead plug should I want high up on the rear body..

This then moves me to the rest of what I have been doing for WEEKS...hydraulic plumbing.. Basically the MM has be upgraded to 1/2 BSP from 3/8, with much messing about, a Pressure relief valve has had to go in as the PTO and front winch PRV run far higher pressures than the MM (front 2775PSI rear MM 1750PSI), and so the plumbing has turned into a nightmare,...

EVENTUALLY I decided on where to have the hoses, part of this was I want all High Pressure hoses underneath LR and no anywhere near me, but after a huge amount of time trouble and work fitting it didn’t work properly, this was due to me using a PTO and the MM solenoid and switch gear too small, I need big pipework to handle the flow, and no restrictions, happy I was not……………

Why ?…….Well pipework plumbed in and solenoids of the MM from Alfred Murray connected etc I engaged the drive, ....and pressed the remote control unit...

There was a strange "Groan" from the pump, ....and I could hear the PRV (pressure relief valve) dumping fluid like billio into the tank,...... the winch did rotate but slowly .............(steady all you MM knockers )...... and then I stopped the unit, ....and then engaged reverse.

There was an even bigger groan, ........and the pipes looked as tho they were trying to tear themselves from the bodywork...and again it turned slowly and made horrible noises, ...........PRV valve was going nuts.....

something was not right I read books, info, and MM USA e-mails and then the penny dropped..... I was shoving (or trying to) a HUGE amount of fluid and pressure into the MM system, although I had "Upgraded" the MM winch to run 1/2 BSP stuff the internal bore of the MM control block was causing a huge 'jam' in the system, and as such it was never going to work.....

Secondly there was little I could do re this as the H14W control block I had (with 2 ports) had 1 stick with a "In neutral rev" stick, and the second was only a On / Off control for a pump switching on and off, I therefore needed all the MM stuff to 'engage' the winch in either the 'in' or 'rev' settings....ARRRRGGHHHHHH

Tony Cordell’s post about 8274 vs Hydraulic vs PTO mechanical etc rang bells for me…….., I have another reason why TC may be right with his chosen route of 8274 and huge motor.............. 5++++++++ MONTHS WORK ! so far………..

It NOW works…Er, but not without a few "Challenges" (read PITFA problems )

Much thought and midnight oil later saw me with this :

This is a brand new '2 port' 'On Neutral Rev' switches x 2..and had to drill and make new holes for it to locate to the base mount plate for the raised centre console unit :

The RHS side works the front winch, the LHS the rear.....

This replaced the H14W control spool block, which only had the 1 'In neutral Rev' and 'On Off' option …..This meant a complete re plumb of what I had done hence why it all vanished !

The other problem was PRV pressured between the system (front runs at 3000 psi .....MM likes max of 1750 PSI..... and flow rates ....and what would happen if the pipes burst ???... (i.e. lowering down hill and pipe goes weight of 90 overcomes internal resistance ..... BANG as I hit the bottom :

answer : Over centre valve plumbed in so that PRV also dumps back to tank on over pressure and MM locks solid if pipe bursts...

But nothing is this easy :

the unit is a completely differing size shape to the old one, so had the re make all the mountings, once done here it is bolted up :

and then some while later heres the cubby box back in along with both the rear and front 'air operated' free spool solenoids, and some 'bent levers' that allow full movement..........

So

The Million Dollar Qs:...........................

How fast is it ?....................... ………………was it worth it ?

Well, Jon White came around to do some bits to his LR, On a demo he said "Quote"

"Kin hell - that’s is quick !!!!!!!!!!!" …….I asked for him to time the unit in action,.....

We spooled on some wire to see what it did, ...........

3rd gear at 1000 RPM...................... the MM produced a spool on speed of :

"Ta Laaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa"

Around 20 feet per min

...this could be increased moving to 4th or 5th, reduced if 1 2nd gear...all at tick over !!!!!!!!!!!!! ……….Basically its B Quick,.... and bear in mind this sort of winch does 20 feet per min ....on either respooling (no load) .....or max pull, .....its all the same...

Going to get a sticker done :

"Its a MileMarker Jim - But Not as we Know It !"

Basically its fast.....compare winch speeds with any electric under load, .....and 20++ foot per min is QUICK !

All I needed now is finish was the SS Rear Fairlead and fit, finish the bolt on tow bar system, drill a few drain holes, get it passivated, fit the Plasma,

It has taken a ludicrous amount of time, it has driven me insane,

I have had to learn about loads of things I had no knowledge of prior to this, it has had me close to screaming point and this is just a few of the many reasons I would say electric has an advantage..

fitted without any of this nonsense....

However it may just be worth it, I have to finish it and try it in anger, if it is half as good as I think it may be then I guess I'll be happy..... STUPID amount of time tho from start to finish, never underestimate the grief / Cost / nightmare of this sort of project ..............Like I ALWAYS do ..............

Nige