another engine combination

[smokeyone]

Hello

I know this has been discussed before but thought I would seek opions on the Cummins 4BT,

TKO500 & Lt230 route into a classic.

Does anyone know of ready made adapters or is this a case of designing and build yourself.

Can a range rover live with the weight of a TKO500.

Also, is there an alternative gearbox suggestion with a really low first gear but keeping a

high top gear for motorway driving.

Thanks very much

[66gaza]

Hello

I know this has been discussed before but thought I would seek opions on the Cummins 4BT,

TKO500 & Lt230 route into a classic.

Does anyone know of ready made adapters or is this a case of designing and build yourself.

Can a range rover live with the weight of a TKO500.

Also, is there an alternative gearbox suggestion with a really low first gear but keeping a

high top gear for motorway driving.

Thanks very much

Where are you located? There are many gearbox options, a 4BT and a 6BT share the same block bolt pattern so quite a few different adapters are available. I used a NV4500 on my 6BT it has a 5.6:1 1st gear. You can you a ZF5 from a ford or a allison or a TH400 or a 4L80E or a ZF6 from a daf but some options require a remote tcase.

Gaza

[smokeyone]

Where are you located? There are many gearbox options, a 4BT and a 6BT share the same block bolt pattern so quite a few different adapters are available. I used a NV4500 on my 6BT it has a 5.6:1 1st gear. You can you a ZF5 from a ford or a allison or a TH400 or a 4L80E or a ZF6 from a daf but some options require a remote tcase.

Gaza

Thanks for the other suggestions. I am in the UK and your comments made me wonder if any suggested gearbox

would bolt straight to a Cummins and then add a remote transfer case !

[66gaza]

Thanks for the other suggestions. I am in the UK and your comments made me wonder if any suggested gearbox

would bolt straight to a Cummins and then add a remote transfer case !

Technically the gearboxs don't bolt to the engine they bolt to an adapter. I used a dodge adapter for my NV4500 but there is also ford /chevy and SAE commercial ones. The website you need is www4btswaps.com Do you have a 4bt ?

Gaza

[smokeyone]

Technically the gearboxs don't bolt to the engine they bolt to an adapter. I used a dodge adapter for my NV4500 but there is also ford /chevy and SAE commercial ones. The website you need is www4btswaps.com Do you have a 4bt ?

Gaza

Thanks for the website link, still looking for the 4bt !

Did wonder in what commercials they were used in !

[Astro_Al]

The TKO is only about 50 kgs dry. Not sure why that kind of weight worries you? It will be fine.

Al.

[smokeyone]

The TKO is only about 50 kgs dry. Not sure why that kind of weight worries you? It will be fine.

Al.

50kgs is okay, I have probably lumped together all gearboxes in the same weight catergory as a nv4500

[Astro_Al]

No, the TKO is much lighter than the NV. (Almost half, but not quite - I think most of it is the cast iron casing of the NV).

Al.

[66gaza]

No, the TKO is much lighter than the NV. (Almost half, but not quite - I think most of it is the cast iron casing of the NV).

Al.

Astro Al, have you used your NV4500 yet? would you not be better off with a light weight gearbox? Surely a lightweight TKO would suit your purpose better? I could be persuaded to take that HEAVY Nv4500 off your hands for a small fee I promise to put it to good use before the cast iron case returns back to dust. You could even through in that funny oil to sweeten the deal

Smokeyone, 4bts were used in Case equipment, diggers, back hoes etc. Go to a commercial breakers and have a look at what trannys came on 6BTs and the SAE adapters that connect engine to tranny will also fit the 4BT, the world is your oyster . 6bts are used in lots & lots of stuff, mine came from a Daf 55 210Ti and had a ZF6 attached to it using an SAE2 adapter (too big) SAE 3 is more like it. Optare buses use an Allison AT545 auto that will bolt straight on ( remote tcase required ) I also have a 5 speed spicer 3053 (3053A is OD 5th) low 1st 5th is 1:1 sae3 1.5" I/P shaft but unsure about Clutch & flywheel (I have posted a pic of it on this forum, just search for spicer). If I can help further just ask.

Gaza

[callum]

if you're in the uk is it worthwhile doing this? usually is is discussed in north american forums because its what they have over there and they have been unable to fit in 6bt's. in europe you have better access to diesel engines from medium trucks from europe and japan. in many cases someone has gone to the trouble of making conversoin kits, which make your life much easier. also in north america they dont have access to 4x4 sized small diesels so tend to go towards 'bread van' diesels such as the 4bt as there isn't anything else.

i have also heard that 4bt's are pretty noisy, so i you're set on a diesel that size you might want to look towards something a bit more refined from isuzu or nissan if you are keen on motorway cruising.

[Astro_Al]

Astro Al, have you used your NV4500 yet? would you not be better off with a light weight gearbox? Surely a lightweight TKO would suit your purpose better? I could be persuaded to take that HEAVY Nv4500 off your hands for a small fee I promise to put it to good use before the cast iron case returns back to dust. You could even through in that funny oil to sweeten the deal

Gaza - haven't you already goty one?!? How many NVs is too many...?

If by 'used' you mean 'justified the expense of your garage shelving', then yes, I have.

Yes, a TKO might suit me better. I'm not against it. Wanna buy me one and I'll swap? Maybe. (I'll throw the oil in ).

Al.

[66gaza]

if you're in the uk is it worthwhile doing this? usually is is discussed in north american forums because its what they have over there and they have been unable to fit in 6bt's. in europe you have better access to diesel engines from medium trucks from europe and japan. in many cases someone has gone to the trouble of making conversoin kits, which make your life much easier. also in north america they dont have access to 4x4 sized small diesels so tend to go towards 'bread van' diesels such as the 4bt as there isn't anything else.

i have also heard that 4bt's are pretty noisy, so i you're set on a diesel that size you might want to look towards something a bit more refined from isuzu or nissan if you are keen on motorway cruising.

Different strokes for different folks. I personally think the B series Cummins engines are the best engines ever made. I can get spares for my 6BT & 4BT at many places worldwide Cummins dealers Daf dealers Case dealers or marine repair places. Virtually everything is interchangeable between the 2, Blocks cranks & heads excepted. So my 6bt & 4bt share oil filters fuel filters and many other parts, there are no belts or chains to snap or stretch. I find it easier to get cummins spares/consumables than 300tdi stuff even though I have a LR main dealer 3 miles from where I live as he always has to order stuff in. Landrover gearboxs appear to be made out of cheese even behind a Rover engine. Apart from the NV4500 for which I can get spares if I ever need them shipped in a couple of days the other gearboxes mentioned are all used in UK vehicles of one sort or another and can be rebuilt by any decent gearbox rebuilder.

My 300tdi isn't exactly quiet either, the 4bt might need a little more soundproofing which is a small price to pay in my opinion. A 6BT/4BT will take 40-45psi boost as standard and much more when prepped correctly. The 6BT stock bottom end is good for 1300bhp at which the standard rods can sometimes fail. The beauty of them is that they are so common in the commercial world spares are easy to obtain and interchangeable.

Gaza

[smokeyone]

Different strokes for different folks. I personally think the B series Cummins engines are the best engines ever made. I can get spares for my 6BT & 4BT at many places worldwide Cummins dealers Daf dealers Case dealers or marine repair places. Virtually everything is interchangeable between the 2, Blocks cranks & heads excepted. So my 6bt & 4bt share oil filters fuel filters and many other parts, there are no belts or chains to snap or stretch. I find it easier to get cummins spares/consumables than 300tdi stuff even though I have a LR main dealer 3 miles from where I live as he always has to order stuff in. Landrover gearboxs appear to be made out of cheese even behind a Rover engine. Apart from the NV4500 for which I can get spares if I ever need them shipped in a couple of days the other gearboxes mentioned are all used in UK vehicles of one sort or another and can be rebuilt by any decent gearbox rebuilder.

My 300tdi isn't exactly quiet either, the 4bt might need a little more soundproofing which is a small price to pay in my opinion. A 6BT/4BT will take 40-45psi boost as standard and much more when prepped correctly. The 6BT stock bottom end is good for 1300bhp at which the standard rods can sometimes fail. The beauty of them is that they are so common in the commercial world spares are easy to obtain and interchangeable.

Gaza

Thanks all for the advice. Unless I have a particular problem I will stick with the Cummins. Any thoughts on a fair price for one

from a breakers. I found one in a marine engine shop, rebuilt, £3k !

[66gaza]

Thanks all for the advice. Unless I have a particular problem I will stick with the Cummins. Any thoughts on a fair price for one

from a breakers. I found one in a marine engine shop, rebuilt, £3k !

The problem with a marine engine is there will be alot of parts needed to convert to automotive use. Some P7100 I/P 4bta's are rated at 250BHP & 500ft/lb.

There are 3 different I/P's on these engines, rotary type similar to a 300tdi, inline A pump and the one everybody wants is the P pump. There might be another one for gen sets but you don't want that one. This is a US site but have a look http://www.roverhybrids.com/VA_4BT_D90.html That is a P pump 4BT.

gaza

[smokeyone]

The problem with a marine engine is there will be alot of parts needed to convert to automotive use. Some P7100 I/P 4bta's are rated at 250BHP & 500ft/lb.

There are 3 different I/P's on these engines, rotary type similar to a 300tdi, inline A pump and the one everybody wants is the P pump. There might be another one for gen sets but you don't want that one. This is a US site but have a look http://www.roverhybrids.com/VA_4BT_D90.html That is a P pump 4BT.

gaza

Thanks again for the advice. Do you think the Cummins will take a even higher top gear ratio than the NV4500 (.73)

or TKO500 (.68) - 1600 rpm at 60mph would be very economical !

[66gaza]

Thanks again for the advice. Do you think the Cummins will take a even higher top gear ratio than the NV4500 (.73)

or TKO500 (.68) - 1600 rpm at 60mph would be very economical !

Cummins B series are most economical in the 1600-1800rpm range so overall gearing depends on tyre size and Tcase used, ideally you want your cruising speed to be around 1700rpm for best economy. Use a www gearing calculator to work that out. I cannot give any advice on the TKO gearbox.

Gaza

[smokeyone]

Cummins B series are most economical in the 1600-1800rpm range so overall gearing depends on tyre size and Tcase used, ideally you want your cruising speed to be around 1700rpm for best economy. Use a www gearing calculator to work that out. I cannot give any advice on the TKO gearbox.

Gaza

The other thing I have been researching is if I can find a chunk of extra money - Atlas transfer case !

[66gaza]

The other thing I have been researching is if I can find a chunk of extra money - Atlas transfer case !

I have always liked these http://www.jbconversions.com/pages/product...pletetcase.html

bolts straight onto a 4X4 GM NV4500

Gaza

[smokeyone]

I have always liked these http://www.jbconversions.com/pages/product...pletetcase.html

bolts straight onto a 4X4 GM NV4500

Gaza

The nv4500 would be nice but I am thinking it is rather heavy. Like the jbconversions stuff.