Help diagnosing vibration please

[LCJ]

Just seen this: http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=24267&hl= and other similar topics

My 2001 TD5 90 does the same thing, starting at around 40mph and not going away with speed.

Noob question but can someone enlighten me as to how to check the swivels/steering damper/bushes for wear please?

Also going to check the front propshaft too, and any other suggestions welcome.

Cheers all

[Gromit]

Noob question but can someone enlighten me as to how to check the swivels/steering damper/bushes for wear please?

Start with the basics like checking wheel balance and tracking.

Bushes can be checked with a crow or pry bar. Lever the 2 components attached to the bush and look for excessive movement or if you can see if the bush is split.

Steering play: Get an assistant to wiggle the wheel gently from side to side. Work your way down the steering system, looking for play, in the UJs on the steering column, steering box, drop arm, ball joint, tie rod, track rod and track rod ends.

Bearings: Jack up a wheel. Grab it at 3/9 o'clock position and move from side to side, looking for play. Play here can be the wheel bearings or play in the steering system.

Grab it at 12/6oclock and do the same. Play here can be the wheel bearings or swivel pins.

If there's no play when the brake is applied, then it's your wheel bearing. If there is still play, then probably the swivel pins.

Damper: Remove from the vehicle and check it moves evenly from end to end, with no leaks or rough or stiff spots.

Swivel preload: You need to remove the track rod (and tie rod for the left wheel) and the oil seal on the swivel. using a fisherman type scale, you check the weight required to move the swivel. I can't remember the figure at the moment. Anyone?

You adjust the preload by adding or removing shims from under the top swivel pin.

Props. Chock the wheels, handbrake off and neutral. Move each UJ up/down/left/right. Try to rotate it also, looking for excessive play. Same with the sliding joint. Also check for play in the transfer box and diff while you're there.

[LCJ]

That's awesome, thanks Gromit.

The only play I could find seemed to be in the bush for the steering damper. I'll replace this , but is such an innocuous part likely to cause such huge vibrations?

[Gromit]

That's awesome, thanks Gromit.

The only play I could find seemed to be in the bush for the steering damper. I'll replace this , but is such an innocuous part likely to cause such huge vibrations?

No problem.

Doubt it's your damper bush. The damper usually only masks the underlying problem.

Have you checked the swivel preload as above, as it makes a big difference to how the truck handles. I'll try and find that figure now.

[Gromit]

Swivel preload values From Big Jon's post:

"The resistance, once the initial inertia has

been overcome, should be 3.60 to 4.30 Kg (8 to

10 Ibs). If necessary, adjust by removing or adding

shims to the top swivel pin as required."

Jon

[Gromit]

Something else to try in case its a damaged wheel or weird tyre, is swapping your wheels front to back and see if there's any change in the vibrations.

[LCJ]

Doubt it's your damper bush. The damper usually only masks the underlying problem.

Have you checked the swivel preload as above, as it makes a big difference to how the truck handles. I'll try and find that figure now.

Shame - I thought it might be too easy and cheap!

Haven't had a chance to check the swivels yet - was a bit limited with what I could do as it was dark by the time I got home last night. One for this evening hopefully. Will try your suggestion with the tyres too, although they were all balanced recently

[dantd5]

I got this problem som months ago and Gosh i really did suffer.. I went a whole week without a car. How did I solve this problem?

I changed all four springs and Shocks...Was time to do that anyway.. Took down the steering box and replaced the DROP ARM with a new one because the bushes in the arm was all rotten ... - Getting the Drop arm down from the steering box turned me into a zulu worrier with a Long Chrome Bar... I advice you don't go through this since it can be changed insitu...

I bought 4 new tyres Cooper Discoverer.. and

Replaced panhard rod bushes (primary culprit)

replaced slightly worn track rod ends...

The end result was marvelous.. All the Wobbling disappeared and the car looks really lovely now.. Take a look at it here,, (Simply needed an occation to display the Black Shark)

[LCJ]

I got this problem som months ago and Gosh i really did suffer.. I went a whole week without a car. How did I solve this problem?

I changed all four springs and Shocks...Was time to do that anyway.. Took down the steering box and replaced the DROP ARM with a new one because the bushes in the arm was all rotten ... - Getting the Drop arm down from the steering box turned me into a zulu worrier with a Long Chrome Bar... I advice you don't go through this since it can be changed insitu...

I bought 4 new tyres Cooper Discoverer.. and

Replaced panhard rod bushes (primary culprit)

replaced slightly worn track rod ends...

The end result was marvelous.. All the Wobbling disappeared and the car looks really lovely now.. Take a look at it here,, (Simply needed an occation to display the Black Shark)

You don't need an excuse to show that off, lovely looking vehicle from hhat I can see Black 110 TD5 would have been my first choice with sufficient funds and experience!

Changing the damper bush did help, but only masked the proble as Gromit said. Swivels seem fine, as do the wheels, but I now know I definitely need at least one new UJ for the rear, hopefully not a whole prop shaft! Could a worn rear UJ (at the diff end) cause vibrations that feel like they're coming from the front?

[Gromit]

I definitely need at least one new UJ for the rear, hopefully not a whole prop shaft! Could a worn rear UJ (at the diff end) cause vibrations that feel like they're coming from the front?

If it's general harshness/vibration/noise that you are getting, then either prop shaft could cause that.

If it's a wobble that you feel through the steering wheel, then it's unlikely to be caused by a prop shaft. Could be rear wheel bearings though, as I found out.

If you've inspected the prop on the truck, you'll probably find it's worse that it seems, once you remove it.

[Eightpot]

In my experience swivel preload probs show when you brake and hit an uneven bit of tarmac - or show as a shake which starts when you hit a bump and then amplifies.

Wheel/tyre imbalance tends to show in a narrow speed range generally over 50 mph and more of a vibration than 'wobble'

general shaking going up to a violent wobble of the steering at lower speeds up to 50mph tends to be worn panhard rod bushes

Worn track rod ends/shock absorbers can add to the problem but not usually a main culprit of a proper 'shake'

Steering damper - it's only purpose is to absorb the shock of sudden steering movements, ie hitting a rock, so shouldn't have any effect whatsoever in on road driving.

Not had a worn drop arm ball joint yet, but I would imagine this would induce a fair bit of play and wobble in the steering.

I have had a worn old steering box, but that just made steering very vague and meant the wheel had to be turned quite a bit before anything happened.

From what you say, my first though would be to check the bushes in the panhard rod (foremost steering rod, at a slight diagonal below bumper level at the front of the car)- get someone to rock the steering wheel while you look at the bushes, if there's any free movement, change them.

[LCJ]

Cheers all (Gromit especially) - all is now cured, with the application of a new rear prop shaft - UJ was shot to bits, but sadly had enlarged the eyes on the prop so that the caps on the new UK simply pushed through with no resistance at all.

Truck now drives dreamily again, so thanks for all your input!

[Gromit]

Cheers all (Gromit especially)

Good to hear it was an easy fix.

Got similar vibrations on mine over the last few days, feels like a prop, but they look fine.

Land Rovers eh