geoffbeaumont Posted August 31, 2005 Author Share Posted August 31, 2005 No helicoil kit, and from the looks of it no bolts either (unless they turn up in the next half an hour or so) - and a desperate need for a working car... Anyone got any idea whether I'd get away with putting everything back together as it is and driving it for a few days? It'd be next week before I got a chance to do anything with it, unless by some miracle I manage to get everything and sort it tomorrow night... I can get a lift to work tomorrow, if I cycle across to Maypole (boss isn't going to tolerate me working from home any longer, even though I'm getting more done without the interuptions), but after that things get a little more tricky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatboy Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 Geoff, I've no personal experience of running an engine with a head bolt missing but I'd be worried about it.... I'd have thought that when the plug fires, there is the potential for pressure to force a momentary leak path between head and block. If it did not actually cause the propogation of a fatigue crack, it may wash either the head or the block. When you try to drill the head bolt, mask off the oil and water ways and the cylinders to avoid swarf getting down where you don't want it.. Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffbeaumont Posted September 15, 2005 Author Share Posted September 15, 2005 As is usually the way with these things, having bodged it back together to get it on the road again I haven't had time to do much with it since...I did have a go at doing the helicoil through the head, the drill bit only just reached the top of the sheared bolt, so it's a head off job which means I need a clear weekend to do it (whatever one of those is...). It started out running fine and gradually deteriorated - on the way up to the borders for Wheels in the Woods (yes, I have been cautiously using it as little as possible ) I thought I was going to be coming back on a recovery truck - then on the actual event and all the way back it ran fine. Guess wherever it was leaking from got blocked up. All good until I forgot I was supposed to be driving with kid socks yesterday and applied heavy right brick as I pulled out into fast traffic on the motorway - sudden drop of power and now it's running rough again Hopefully I just decoked it... Anyway, all that is pretty much just an update - I'm not going to really know what I'm dealing with until I get the head off, so I'm trying to work out what my options are if it's bad (I've cracked the block/slipped a liner/botch the helicoil). Obviously if the head is wrecked beyond a simple skim it's pricey but fairly straightforward to replace it (I presume if I fit a new one I should do the pair?). What am I looking at if I have to replace the block? What should I expect to pay for a used 3.9 or, if I have to, 3.5 (I'm guessing anything bigger is rarer and attracts a significant premium)? How much is it likely to cost to have the block changed, assuming I can strip it down that far and have it towed to the garage? Any extra if I was to shell out for a long engine? Negotiating a decent price for my lodgers knackered escort could end up being an attractive way out... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niall_CSK Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 Pity it didn't happen a bit earlier Geoff. Simon CSK is on his way South to your area, he is holding a 3.9 complete that you could have had for the fun of it if he could have brought it with him. It might not be as bad a you think, heads are not usually that hard to come by even in pairs, guy on ebay selling ten sets last week , think he was looking at 50 quid a pair. With any luck you might not be able to get petrol soon and will have all the time in the world, once you have convinced your boss the bicycle is broken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffbeaumont Posted September 15, 2005 Author Share Posted September 15, 2005 The bicycle is broken - some oick buckled the back wheel when I left it in Maypole after cycling there to get a lift while the car was still in bits. Still rideable, but only just Besides, 25miles down the M40 on a bike...? Hmm, don't suppose Simon CSK will be heading down this way again any time in the near future? That might just work out rather well - if I could refurb that and drop it in my car, then if my heads are okay I can pass them onto a mate who seems to have wrecked his with ceramic sealant (see the start of this thread). Heads aren't too much of a problem - it's more if I have to replace the block - although I'd rather not start putting major new parts on an engine that hasn't been fully refurbed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niall_CSK Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 Still can't understand how he managed that, unless he poured it in the plug holes He might be, depends on his current project list, not sure exactly where you are as the only Maypole's I can find are either in the Scilly Islse or Kent, I didn't think the M40 went through Kent and I hope it's not the former. Drop me a PM with your loc. and I will send him an email, won't get it till next week, I think that's when he gets back. He's not likely to be online before then unless he gets withdrawal symptoms Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffbeaumont Posted September 15, 2005 Author Share Posted September 15, 2005 Cheers - PM on the way. Maypole is an area of South Birmingham, but I'm actually in Northfield. Having read up a bit on ceramic sealants, my guess is he didn't flush the coolant out after he'd added it, so it's solidified in the smaller coolant passages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffbeaumont Posted September 17, 2005 Author Share Posted September 17, 2005 Phew...escaped the helicoiling! Took the head off today and attacked the sheared bolt - started drilling it out, and after going up a couple of bit sizes it came loose, so we drifted a torx bit into it and it wound out using the cordless drill. What a beautiful sight that was! Got to get some new bolts on Monday (I'm not making that mistake again...), then she should be back in action. As far as I can see I got away with just blowing the head gasket - there was obvious leakage from the cylinders either side of the sheared bolt, but the head is still flat and the liners are still in place. If it's cracked the block, there's nothing visible, but I guess I'll only know that for sure once it's all back together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatboy Posted September 19, 2005 Share Posted September 19, 2005 Geoff, Congratulations on getting the bolt out... Fingers crossed with the rebuild Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffbeaumont Posted September 19, 2005 Author Share Posted September 19, 2005 Quick question - do you use the same torque settings for composite gaskets and stretch bolts as for tin and non-stretch? Obviously, leaving the outside row at 1/3 torque per normal practice now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fisha Posted September 19, 2005 Share Posted September 19, 2005 i used the same torque on my composite gaskets as recommended by the book. i didn't even bother torqing the outer bolts. I put them in hand tight till they touched the surface and nipped home and that was it. Other than filling the holes, the outer bolts serve no purpose on clamping the head down on mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffbeaumont Posted September 19, 2005 Author Share Posted September 19, 2005 Cheers. Hopefully get it all back together this evening Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffbeaumont Posted September 19, 2005 Author Share Posted September 19, 2005 Hmm, the composite gasket doesn't have holes for the bottom bolts - the edge of the gasket is half way across them Is this normal, or have Town & Country sold me the wrong gasket? If it is right, do I trim the gasket or leave the bolts out? Not keen on the latter - I know they don't do anything, but I'm not keen on having empty bolt holes in my block. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fisha Posted September 20, 2005 Share Posted September 20, 2005 i'd trim the holes so the bolt can go through. The only parts your really wanting to seal are the metal rings around each of the cylinders, and the holes for the oil and water passages. By trimming around the bolt holes carefully, i think you'll still be fine. It sounds as though they have sold you gaskets for the later blocks / heads which simply dont have the bolts atall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niall_CSK Posted September 20, 2005 Share Posted September 20, 2005 Agree with Donald. Have used composites with same settings without problem. Wish I was as lucky with exhaust manifold bolts. Just had word from Simon, the engien in question had overheating problems when it was taken out and we never got to the bottom of it so better not land you with that. Good news at last Geoff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffbeaumont Posted September 20, 2005 Author Share Posted September 20, 2005 Cheers - in that case I'll just go ahead with the one I've got. I take it it's not worth taking the heads off the dodgy engine and having a look to see if they'd be any good to replace Jimbob's? Looks like my engine is out of the woods now, anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niall_CSK Posted September 20, 2005 Share Posted September 20, 2005 Could do, I believe they were skimmed to try to eliminate the problem. If you are not in a hurry and can wait till I get back in October, I'll have a word with big S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffbeaumont Posted September 20, 2005 Author Share Posted September 20, 2005 Well, I'm not in any hurry now As far a Jimbob goes I think his current plan is to run his until it expires, since he can't afford to put new heads on it, so it won't hurt him to wait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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