Help with basic but tricky question,how much oil ????

[justustwo]

Help with basic but tricky question,how much oil ?

Hi all any help whatsoever with my continuing oil problem very much appreciated.

Got a 19884 Landrover Series 3 Lwb 6 months ago and have really been enjoying it other than the continual oil leaks !!!!.

Now before you all step in and shout out with the usual stories of :"a landrover always leaks" or "its just marking its territory"and "its so you know that you have got some oil in there"......I willjust

cut you all off and say from the Landrover part there are virtually no leaks... ok well no bad ones.

But the thing has got a TOYOTA 2ct diesel in and ever since I have had it ,there have been very annoying (and messy) oil leaks as far as I could tell mainly from the main sump/ engine block gasket/seal.It does not use a lot of oil but the drips make a real mess of the driveway .

I put off doing this as I wanted to do it in with the major service and my first job was electrics (terrible state !)and then the cooling system of the Toyota engine which is alway critical with these engines.

This has now been done with the Toyota engine now having the correct cooling with a thermostat and a matrix

blower heater permanently plumbed in as a bypass circuit.Before doing this the engine ran well with good power(for a 2ltr!!!)and no smoke at all ,started on the button without fail,although possibly a bit noisy ,and the crude Landrover temperature gauge very rarely getting above COLD.

After having done the above cooling mods the engine runs much quieter with still good power ,excellent mpg and no smoke at all.The temperature is totally reliable and is now properly measured at 91 degrees and never going above 95 degress which is ideal according to engine specs .

However I was getting oil vapour up the dipstick which after taking some advice decided it could be because the dipstick is not the correct one for the engine and had no rubber seal at the top .

I was told by the previous owner at time of purchase that the correct oil level was full when the oil mark was between the H/L marks (NOT the F mark!).But seeing some of the bodges this guy has made(a wood screw holding the sump on! even the transfer box bottom cover put on wrong way round so you could not drain the oil thru the drain) I dont want to trust his answer.

So I know the original Toyota 2ct took 4.3 litres of oil with the filter changed BUT I have a different sump(bigger) to allow clearance for the front propshaft .

So I took the sump of and cleaned it up and was appaled at the welding job they had made to keep the original flange of the old sump and to mate it to the new bigger sump,the flange was distorted all over the place and they had just elongated the bolt holes with an oversized drill and used no washer

thus pulling the flange up noticeably at every bolt hole!!

Anyway I had a spare (original unaltered)2ct sump which came with the vehicle so I have filled this with water and it took 6.625 litres to fill it right up level to the flange(had the return oil pipe spigot blanked off).

The sump which was on the vehicle (after cleaning up the flange and straightening it up) took 9.5 litres to fill up to the flange in the same way as the original.

I worked out that this is a 43% increase in the volume of the altered sump compared to an original ( my maths was: increase of sump capacity 2.875 divided by the original capacity sump 6.625 X by 100 to get the % increase ?) and thus think that my oil capacity should also be increased by 43% ??.

I feel this was supported by the fact that I measured all the old engine oil I took out today and it came to 6.5 litres ( I had previous to draining the oil been on the halfway point of the dipstick- which if you remember I was told was the FULL level mark).

Now according to my maths 43% increase on 4.3 litres (original unaltered 2ct oil capacity) is 6.15 litres and I took out and 6.5 litres ,could be +- 0.5 litres over filled but not drastically ,anyone agree /disagree?.

When I refill I am planning on putting back in 6 litres on the dot as I would rather be a smidge under as I am more worriied of overfilling and then buggering the turbo- Is this a good plan?

I have also got an original 2ct dipstick which although too short for reading is a good tight fit in the dipstick tube and will use that for sealing and have the old one hanging near the engine purely for measuring -good /bad idea ?

Please any help /info/advice (even advice on how much is in your/mates 2ct landrover) much needed just found out partner is pregnant so have lost my apprentice to bounce ideas off

[David Sparkes]

Why do you think overfilling will damage the turbo?

The way I would go about this is to insert the correct dipstick, while the sump is off.

Take measurements to relate the FULL mark on the correct dipstick to the sump / block flange.

If the FULL mark is below the sump / block flange, transfer the measurement to the inside of the sump.

Fill the sump to the mark, measuring the amount. This amount does NOT allow for oil held in the engine generally, and the filter specifically, so be prepared to make due allowances depending on whether you are changing the oil, or the oil and the filter.

I would also take the opportunity to establish the amount of oil required to move from Empty to Halfway, and from Halfway to Full. These should be equal, but with the modified sump may not be.

If you use your idea of keeping the measurement dipstick outside the engine, make sure you can clean it before and after use, even if away from your home/base, otherwise you risk introducing dirt while measuring the level.

Personally I'd look to changing the markings on the dipstick, otherwise you are just creating a potential accident.

In this context, test the hardness of the metal before committing yourself. I think dipsticks can be harder than normal steel, so they can withstand the vibration inherent in a long length of small section material.

HTH

[justustwo]

Why do you think overfilling will damage the turbo?

Hi David thanks very much for the reply and reading through you reply several times I feel you have got it right and is the way forward .I would like to have used the origional 2ct dipstick I got last week but unfortunatly it did not fit the tube on my engine(had to slightly shave down the seal)!! For some reason the tube has been changed and has got a non standard bend on it.

Luckily I know with @25mm what path the tube should take so going to measure tommorow .Dont really want to mess about with installing an origional 2ct tube(from where i dont know!) as it would involve taking inj pump off as well as manifold and related gaskets etc(good parts are hard to source here)so will try to find a longer compatable dipstick which i can permanetly mark.

As for the overfilling and turbo?

I have been told oil level is much more critical for turbo cars and if you overfill the oil a turbo can get to spin into oblivion.true or false?

thanks Andrew

[Les Henson]

Most dipstick tubes are just a push fit in the block with just an O-ring to make a seal at the bottom. If yours has been replaced, then it may be glued in or just stuck. Have you tried removing it?

Les.

[David Sparkes]

You didn't give your location, so I didn't know parts supply could be an issue.

I had the impression that your current (leaky) dipstick gave you the correct level, even if it was based on reading the half full marking. You already have in place a plan B to create a non-leaking dipstick installation, using parts to hand.

Thus any need for additional parts didn't cross my mind.

Re overfilling destroying the turbo, I think that by the time the message got to you it's been distorted almost beyond recognition.

I think it's impossible for a higher than standard oil level to destroy the turbo when the engine is running (or stationary).

For starters most turbos are mounted well above the level of the oil.

What people might be referring to is the ability for some diesel engines, under fault conditions, to run on their own oil. As this fuel supply is unregulated the theory is that the engine over speeds and breaks, or runs out of lubricating oil and the bearings are destroyed.

This failure mode is more to do with the way crankcase gases are handled, which nowadays means they are fed onto the inlet tract somewhere before the turbo. I haven't made a close study of this, but I suspect two other design factors play their part.

1/ Where is the ventilation system is connected to the 'crankcase'.

2/ Whether there is some sort of flow control valve in the crankcase ventilation path. I suspect any sort of flow valve will restrict the flow sufficiently to stop the runaway condition starting.

As I understand it, failure occurs when crankcase compression is high.

(Worn piston / bores giving high levels of piston blow-by).

AND

Crankcase oil vapour is forced through the ventilation system.

(A low level connection into the block, say into a cam follower chest, or into the block below the level of the water jacket, could make this vapour flow more likely. If the connection is into the valve rocker cover at the top of the engine, this could make the flow of excessive vapour less likely).

Strictly, this failure can happen on both a turbo charged and a naturally aspirated engine. However, the generally higher compression pressures achieved with a turbocharged engine could be considered to generate higher levels of blow-by, thus more readily achieving the critical crankcase compression that seems to be the essential feature of this failure mode.

As I say, I haven't studied this phenomenon, so have built the explanation on my basic understanding of a four stroke diesel, combined with a general appreciation based on comments made by others in different forums.

I wouldn't bother writing it if I didn't think it reasonably correct.

HTH

[justustwo]

Thanks for all the replies finally up and running today sounding good with no smoke and no just as important no leaks.ended up taking 6.5 litreswhich was as before but now certain of level and new dipstick fitting well

Thanks