jumpy Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 Hello all, I'm in the business of diagnosing a troublesome wobble/judder from the front axle somewheres. LHS Prop/UJ's seem ok, plenty of new diff oil. Recently tightened wheel-bearing due to excessive play. Judder only happens after a journey when everything has warmed up a little and then only occurs when I slowly come to a stop - appears sub 5mph and the sound is consistent with the road wheel speed; clunking judder that can be felt through the car, almost like transmission backlash - though everything checks out in terms of play through the diff/prop/tf box etc. I've noticed a lot of oil/collected grit on the back of the hub and the swivel ball feels slightly warm to the touch, whereas the RHS is cold. When I first had the vehicle there was no leaking oil/gunge. I've thought duff bearing/cv joint but none of the accepted symptoms are present to indicate failure of those parts. Swivel bearings are ok. Regular garage has suggested halfshaft wear as a possibility? Passed MOT about 3 weeks back. Problem has been lurking for a while now. I'm leaning towards the loose bearing having damaged a seal, or a seal failure damaging the bearing/cv joint causing the clonking judder when things have warmed up a bit. Under the hub dust cap there's a lot of thinnish grey oil (see attachments) which I'm sure is not right. It doesn't smell like ep90 from the diff. Could it be the oneshot grease from the swivel or from the bearings instead perhaps? As far as I'm aware there's no problem with a blocked axle breather, and after cleaning up the back of the hub, the swivel seal looks intact. Upon inspection the brake disk does cause the pads to move in the calliper in one small part of the rotation, and there's some pitting on the inboard side of the disk, but everything seems to be running true with no obvious misalignment. Any ideas welcome guys, as I'm scratching my head lots with this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
errol209 Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 Could it be the oneshot grease from the swivel or from the bearings instead perhaps? It is indeed, and it's leaking through a gap between the driving flange and stub shaft, one or both of which are quire badly worn for this to happen. I'd suggest that the flange / stubstaft wear is allowing the CV to drift a little out of alignment, which may be causing your judder. The loose wheel bearing will have accelerated the wear. Replacement is the only answer, and you might as well do all the seals as your going to have to take the driving flange, stub axle and CV/half shaft out to do it. Also worth checking the other corners too. I'll bet there's a how-to on the technical forum ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 This is nothing to worry about - most vehicles have a small leak there. This is why the hub cap is such a tight fit - to prevent it from leaking any further. If it's bone dry, then it'll corrode and cause excessive wear on the splines and drive member. I always cover the end of the driveshaft with grease prior to putting the hub cap back on. Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpy Posted August 6, 2009 Author Share Posted August 6, 2009 Thanks guys. I'm away seeing the sights in london this weekend (her treat ), but I'm planing on comparing the amount of oil in the hub dust caps on both sides some time next week, then have a chat with the garage to see what they'd charge to replace all seals, new bearings, cv joint, stub axle as possibilities. Trouble is without taking it to bits it's hard to give a definite answer to what's borked - I've got the number for a mobile mechanic who'd 'help' me with the job, but it's still gonna cost, then there's the parts, new or OE ? agh. Timken is good for the bearings, and I guess the seals can come from LR, but as for a CV/stub axle... they seem to be from 20/30 quid to 30/50 depending on where you go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 Worn wheel bearings might damage the hub seal and cause it to leak, but if this had happened, then it would leak onto the brake disc. There is a small seal in the stub axle which will allow oil up the drive shaft and then into the hub cap. If the wheel bearing spins smoothly with no roughness or noise, then they are likely to be fine. If the cv joints don't click on full lock, then the same for them. I don't think you need a full hub rebuild to cure the 'problem' - just a little seal and a couple of gaskets. In my opinion - a small amount of oil or grease inside the hub cap isn't a problem providing it doesn't leak out. Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpy Posted August 13, 2009 Author Share Posted August 13, 2009 Thanks, Les. What you're saying makes sense given the lack of cv/joint bearing failure symptoms ie. no clicking on full lock, smooth rotation of wheel and no rrrrrrr sound indicative of a duff wheel bearing. As far as the leaking oil goes (I've read your article on hub seal failure) there's a considerable amount of oily gunge on the inboard side of the hub itself and around the swivel seal and on the top of the hub near the upper swivel pin. Previously this was clean and dry. There's no oil on the tyre, disk, calliper or pads, but the oil/grease shown in my earlier pics is exactly the same colour as the stuff shown in your article hub seal image I'll try and get a picture of the hub over the weekend. Looking at the rave manual, it seems like the hub seals are a 3 spanner job (ish) whereas replacing the seal or roller bearing for the stub-axle requires more specialist tools Still, I'm perhaps jumping to conclusions here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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