Landrover Newbie in Cambridgeshire

[RobSmith]

Hi All,

I have been dragging things around with my old Volvo/s for years but recently have found I am towing bigger heavier things across muddier fields.

I have also fancied something tax exempt and also cheap to buy so the choices for such a vehicle were quite slim.

My uncle sent me an email asking that I look out for a tax exempt landrover for himself to use where he lives in Wales.

Whilst looking I came across an ex MOD Series 3 that looked like it needed a home. It requires too much work for my uncle to do but after a couple of days thought I decided to buy it myself....

It is 24 volt and has lots of large braided cabling and electrical boxes so I think it was a Fitted for Radio vehicle.

There are not many things that should be 24 volt left and the wiring is in a mess so I shall re-wire it as 12 volt.

I bought it thinking that the engine was probably knackered as it was sitting in the engine bay but not bolted in but just resting on the front axle.

It looks like it had been abandoned at a stage where the engine was either being removed or going back in. Once I had got the front pulley off the axle I found that the engine was completely siezed solid so I will be looking to install another engine. Much of the front bodywork was dangling off. I have slung a few bolts in holes to make it look respectable to sit outside the house.

The bulkhead looks like it has been repaired by someone with a welder permanently set at 900 amps and then filler in the resulting holes. I might pull out the bulkhead and do the bulkhead properly at some point.

The chassis requires quite a bit of cutting, grinding, new setions, welding etc from the rear axle front spring hangers rearwards. I made quite a few torch access holes with a hammer yesterday so I could see inside the chassis sections Once I get cutting I will be able to see more and more I need to chop out I am sure but it looks like about 2/3rds of the depth of the chassis is good so should hold its shape while I get stuck in chopping off the bottom 1/3rd. It will get a new rear military style crossmember and replacement spring hangers.

I am thinking of neatly cutting out two access holes in the floor of the rear tub to allow me to weld across the top of the chassis properly. I would then make up a couple of neat panels to cover the holes. Has anyone else done this?

I do not have the space to put the rear bodywork if I were to remove it so welding the chassis in situ under the body is my only real option.

I am concidering two engines to go in. A 200TDi or a 2.3 turbo Volvo petrol. I have quite a few of the Volvo engines and I know how all the fuel injection system works and it would be a nice smooth engine. My only concern is how economical it would be. I am presuming the gearbox in a series 3 landrover is the same whether it had the small petrol, diesel or the V8. My theory being if it can take the torque from the V8 then the volvo engine should be ok too.

I was wanting to find out the axle ratios and gearbox ratios of the gearbox and axle.

I have had a bit of a look around, under and over both but could not see any ratio numbers or gearbox numbers anywhere. Can someone tell me where these are on the axle and gearbox. That will save me having to clean the gloop off of the whole thing.

It was registered in 1990 and declared manufactured in 1972 and has Historic Vehicle on the log book so that is fine.

How does the DVLA look upon an engine change to something more modern and possibly more powerful?

There is much I need to learn about but I have found it to be a very simple, although heavy, box to work on.

Rob

[FridgeFreezer]

Welcome along Rob, always good to have another Series round here, especially one of superior wheelbase

Ref the chassis welding - if you "undo" (more likely cut off) the mounting bolts you should be able to lift the whole back body up a bit to gain access, whether that's enough or not I couldn't say. If it's really bad, now is the time to sling a new (galvanised) chassis under it, then it's done. The job's not too bad with a bit of help.

On the engine side of things, I very much vote for the Volvo lump because it's different and everyone and their dog fits 200TDi's to everything these days, it's so depressing turning up to an event and just hearing a cacophany of clattering and rattling . Even better, fit the volvo lump and MegaSquirt EFI

The Series box was the same for petrol/diesel but the V8's had the early Range Rover gearbox (and a de-tuned ~110hp V8). The Series boxes will live behind a more powerful engine if driven sympathetically, mine lasted years behind a 3.9 V8, but ultimately they aren't really up to it if you want to get the most out of the engine. These days the later LT77/R380 5-speeds are the better bet, along with the LT230 transfer box. Yours being a 109, the extra length makes fitting things in that much easier.

Your axles will be 4.7:1 ratio, the back one may be a Salisbury (heavy duty) type, although early 109's had a Rover axle on the back (if the diff looks the same as the front one, it's Rover). Gearbox & transfer box ratios are listed in the technical archive, along with a gear ratio calculator spreadsheet to work out changes when swapping bits. There may well be no (visible) numbers on the axles/gearbox after all these years, if they were even there to start with.

The DVLA don't really mind about engine swaps, they're very common.

One thing to think about is what you want out of the vehicle - if you're already talking engine swaps then the next thing is disc brakes (which are doable but not easy), power steering, comfier suspension... and down the line you may as well have bought a 110 and sold the Series. I realise I can't really talk as I have done all those things, and more, to my Series (but I do still have leaf springs, I'm not a total heretic ) but if what you really want is a 110 it will save a lot of time & money if you just buy one instead.

[RobSmith]

Welcome along Rob, always good to have another Series round here, especially one of superior wheelbase

Ref the chassis welding - if you "undo" (more likely cut off) the mounting bolts you should be able to lift the whole back body up a bit to gain access, whether that's enough or not I couldn't say. If it's really bad, now is the time to sling a new (galvanised) chassis under it, then it's done. The job's not too bad with a bit of help.

On the engine side of things, I very much vote for the Volvo lump because it's different and everyone and their dog fits 200TDi's to everything these days, it's so depressing turning up to an event and just hearing a cacophany of clattering and rattling . Even better, fit the volvo lump and MegaSquirt EFI

The Series box was the same for petrol/diesel but the V8's had the early Range Rover gearbox (and a de-tuned ~110hp V8). The Series boxes will live behind a more powerful engine if driven sympathetically, mine lasted years behind a 3.9 V8, but ultimately they aren't really up to it if you want to get the most out of the engine. These days the later LT77/R380 5-speeds are the better bet, along with the LT230 transfer box. Yours being a 109, the extra length makes fitting things in that much easier.

Your axles will be 4.7:1 ratio, the back one may be a Salisbury (heavy duty) type, although early 109's had a Rover axle on the back (if the diff looks the same as the front one, it's Rover). Gearbox & transfer box ratios are listed in the technical archive, along with a gear ratio calculator spreadsheet to work out changes when swapping bits. There may well be no (visible) numbers on the axles/gearbox after all these years, if they were even there to start with.

The DVLA don't really mind about engine swaps, they're very common.

One thing to think about is what you want out of the vehicle - if you're already talking engine swaps then the next thing is disc brakes (which are doable but not easy), power steering, comfier suspension... and down the line you may as well have bought a 110 and sold the Series. I realise I can't really talk as I have done all those things, and more, to my Series (but I do still have leaf springs, I'm not a total heretic ) but if what you really want is a 110 it will save a lot of time & money if you just buy one instead.

I am quite fond of the fairly battered look and having it tax exempt.

I do not think the chassis is too badly corroded. Looking through the big holes I made in the bottom skin of the chassis rails I can see black paint or clean steel inside across the top and about 2/3rds of the way down both sides. The rear crossmember and spring hangers are toast but it looks easy enough to be able to chop these areas back to good steel. I am concidering finding all the intentional and rust holes in the chassis and welding them up and entirely filling the chassis sections with waxoil, leaving it in there for a few weeks of hot weather and then draining out the excess.

I did not realise the old V8 was so de-tuned. The volvo 2.3 turbo engine in standard form is about 160hp and being turbocharged has lots of low down torque. The non turbo version is about 120hp but is nothing like as nice to drive as you need to use more revs. I would use the standard fuel injection system on the Volvo lump which is Bosch LH2.4. It is quite easy to understand, tunable and reliable. The latest ecu also has the immobiliser built in so that might be a good point to security.

The gearing and fuel economy issue make me lean towards a 200Tdi conversion. My Volvo sits at 85mph at 3000 rpm. I suspect the landrover will be more like 60mph at 4000rpm so not using the smooth low reving nature of the volvo lump.

But then I do like the idea of having something a bit different so still thinking about it.

I shall not be fitting power steering or any other unecessary complications.

Can anyone tell me what sort of motorway speed you would be doing in a series 3 with 7.5x16 tyres at 3000rpm?

Rob

[Rich_P]

It'll be doing just a nudge over 50mph.

You may find this a handy calculator.

http://www.solemnwarning.net/transmission/?

I think it's super cool that you're going to have a go at fitting the Volvo engine. Is it the older four cylinder from the 7 Series?

[FridgeFreezer]

The gearing question will surely rear its head whichever engine you have.

Ashcrofts have a Land Rover gear rati calculator which tells you all the ratios from the various standard LR boxes, which is quite handy:

http://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/calc/ratio_calc.html

There are a few options to improve your gearing:

1) Fit a Fairey overdrive, these add 28% to the overall output of the gearbox, and are selectable. Decent units can be picked up for ~£150, and I think you can still buy spares for them. Failing that, Rocky Mountain do an overdrive but they are new and more like £700. The Fairey one hasn't been made for years, but there are loads out there 2nd hand.

2) Fit diffs from a coil sprung vehicle - all coilers are 3.54:1, although later ones are 24 spline so not easily compatible. If your bck axle is a Salisbury it's a bit trickier but not insurmountable. The downside to a diff swap is you can't switch it off, but with a decent engine you shouldn't have too much of a problem. The 3.9 V8 would pull away in 2nd or 3rd even with 3.54 diffs in.

3) Swap the gearbox & transfer box for one from a coiler, gaining a 5th gear (~30% overdrive) and a selection of transfer box high ratios from 1.6:1 to 1:1.

Basically I'm appealing to your better judgement not to ruin another series with a frickin' 200TDi

[RobSmith]

It'll be doing just a nudge over 50mph.

You may find this a handy calculator.

http://www.solemnwarning.net/transmission/?

I think it's super cool that you're going to have a go at fitting the Volvo engine. Is it the older four cylinder from the 7 Series?

It will be prety much the same as the 4 cylinder engine from a 7 series.

It will be the best bits from all the years to give me the best performance.

I will also be doing things like fitting an earlier intermediate shaft in the engine and using the distributor on the side of the block rather than the later horrid one on the back of the head.

I will also be fitting it with an early aluminium cam cover and belt covers instead of the more modern black aluminium and plastic ones. These 'touches' will keep it looking more in keeping with the landrovers age.

Rob

[Snagger]

The gearing would give the same speed for a given rpm regardles of the engine used, but both engines would easily pull an overdrive, high ratio transfer box or 3.54 diffs. I favour overwrites because they are selectable, leaving the gearing standard when desired. It still leaves the gearing a little low for motorways, though, and the diff swap would work better for a lightly loaded commuter that doesn't do much heavy towing or steep off road work.

Fairer overwrites cost about £300 in good second hand condition, but many have been abused. They are still built new by Rovers Spwn South, and Nene Overland are their UK distributor for parts and complete units. The RDS fairy unit's new price is comparable to the much stronger and quieter Roverdrive. The sole axavantage of buying a new Fairey type unit is originality if you are restoring a vehicle to original specs (Faireys were available as factory fit from SI days, so would not ever look like an alteration except to rivet counters like us who know MoD LRs never had them), but the type may not tolerate the torque from your engine transplant too well - the Roverdrive or diff swap would be much more robust.