justustwo Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 Hi Folks I am getting ready to drill and tap a thread to install an EGT probe in my exhaust manifold of my 1993 200tdi defender. Can anyone tell me the easiest way to get the manifold off with relation to access /least dissasmbley/least problems with stubborn bolts Is it easiest /practical to take the manifold off from the block with the turbo intact ? or do /can I take the turbo off from the downpipe / exhaust manifold and then take the manifold off seperatley?? best way to do it as all the nuts seem a real pigs ear to get too cheers all Andrew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matfield Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 I did this exact thing about 2 months ago so I'll fill you in on my fk ups so you hopefully don't do the same 1. Remove everything on that side of the engine, not connected to the engine; airbox, washer bottle tank, as much intake piping as possible etc. 2. Take off the 5 13mm nuts on the downpipe, it will make taking the exhaust off a lot easier, and if you can (mine was stainless so might have been a little easier then yours) undo the exhaust at the mid box to give you a little "jiggle" room. I didn't have a 2nd flange connected to a flexi pipe, and it also meant that blowing back through the turbo will be a lot easier in point 5 3. DO NOT touch the oil return at the turbo... it comes off easily but is the biggest pain in the rubbish to get back on. Take off the 27/28 at the sump... it will just pull straight up. Also make sure you keep the oil feed pipe AND the banjo bolt clean........ very easy to get dirty and a huge pain in the jaxie to have to take it all off again to clean them or worse still replace the turbo! 4. The 17mm bolts going into the head will all come out as normal apart from the two directly behind the turbo so remove all the others apart from the 4 at the top of the manifold; have the far left and right loose enough to hold the manifold so that it slides/falls back as you undo the two nuts, giving you more room as the manifold falls back to keep undoing them, removing the far left and right bolts as you go. 5. You don't need to remove the turbo to drill out the manifold, just make sure you clean everything and don't turn the compressor wheel until you have blown air the wrong way through the turbo (from wastegate to manifold) to clear out any shards before you put 13 psi through the running engine and again break your turbo. The reason I say don't remove the turbo is I did and managed to shear one of the flange bolts, and it was a pain in the arse to remove and get back on and the guy in the machine shop told me after that he could have done it with the turbo on the manifold!! If you have any other questions just let me know What EGT gauge did you go for? Hope that helps Mat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justustwo Posted July 6, 2013 Author Share Posted July 6, 2013 Hi Mat,cheers for such a quick reply and yes i have heard and been told by a few guys that i can drill and tap with the whole lot left on BUT there is just that tiny tiny tiny tiny risk that it may not go to plan and something get drawn into the turbo....and we all know what these landys are like with the easiest of jobs turning into the worst of worst and with my luck i will be the one it goes tits up with!. I think for the sake of getting it all removed it will allow me a better placement of the probe and also i want to have a slight repair on the exhaust downpipe which has a corroded end which i want repaired by a friend I have a madman monitoring system that i had/have in my series 3 which i have taken out the display unit but left all the sensors probes in my s3 and putting new sensors/probes into the defender to allow it to be used in both vehicles-great system saved me a few times on the s3 thanks for the info will let you know how i get on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matfield Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 A friend had the madman... he'd fitted an Izusu 2.8 to his 90 and found it invaluable!! Where were you thinking of fitting the probe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justustwo Posted July 6, 2013 Author Share Posted July 6, 2013 Im not 100% sure untill i get the manifold off and have a good gander but as close to the no2 /no3 intersection.I have a 60 mm probe which was the same on the s3(toyota turbo diesel ) but that had a blanking plate on the removed EGR so that was simple Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justustwo Posted July 6, 2013 Author Share Posted July 6, 2013 by the way still not 100% wether i sould just rely on tapped thread into the manifold or if I should weld a threaded stub on?? What did you do on your?? Manifold should be thick/meaty enough to get good thread into it ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matfield Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 TBH... we (me and machine guy) looked at the manifold and thickness and went for the welding threaded stub option. Mine was a VDO gauge and sender and came with a stub. The manifold 1. isn't that thick and 2. is cast so it will shatter like glass if not handled correctly. We did look at threading the manifold but where 2 and 3 meet its not flat (tubular and curved) so threading and getting a seal would have been a nightmare. I really wouldn't recommend drilling it yourself (my man is a tool maker and had a workshop and machinery to die for) and still we really had to take our time getting it right and lined up and drilled correctly. Back to removing the Turbo or not; the great thing about the 200tdi manifold is that the holes for cyl 2/3 are directly below where you are going to be drilling for the sender and if you make sure the inside of the manifold is dry all shards/swarf should drop away. Mat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justustwo Posted July 6, 2013 Author Share Posted July 6, 2013 Cheers for extra info.Will keep all that in mind ,what i must say is that i am an ex Brit down here in South Africa and i really am very wary on letting (some of)the local bodgers down here loose on my hard work of a vehicle as have had many jobs so poorly done in the past that its better to attempt them myself at least then i know i take the care and only one person to blame . I wont know untill the manifold comes off but im hoping that the probe can be bent into the most central location as its only the tip of the probe that reads which may allow me to get a more flat spot for tapping? What welding process did he use to weld your stubb on tig? All I know is I dont want a cracked manifold as here the parts are a Bu**er to find for a 200tdi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matfield Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 I can understand not wanting to let the bodgers at it!! The mechanic I went to was great and outright said to me that he wouldn't touch it but did put me in contact with the guy I used... rare for someone to be so honest!! Ref the probe... with the 200tdi manifold its all tubular so you're going to find it very hard to get somewhere flat to drill and "turn" the probe to the ideal location. The flattest part we could find, or should I say the bit with the most metal, was in the V between cyl 2 and 3 right below the turbo flange but again, that really was in quite a harsh V. Unlike the 300tdi there's no EGR plate/blank to drill straight and tap. If parts are that expensive down there I really would recommend finding a good engineering/machine shop to secure it on a pillar drill/lathe to get it right... you know yourself, you only really get one shot at it! I wasn't there for the welding... but he did have a TIG rig there... from what he said it could also be arc welded if done properly. The annoying thing is that the place on the manifold to get the best reading, and the best flow is also the place where there is the biggest curve/V but ironically is the easiest to drill and weld as you have the most surface area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclemicky Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 Justustwo I know you are in South Africa but before you start, is there any way you could get a new down pipe.There not that expansive,post is the big one.Welding exhausts is just OK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gremlin Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 I drilled mine in place, then cut the tread in the manifold. Used grease on the bits to collect as much swarf as i could, thengot a shop vac and sucked any remains after, 4 years later and its still there and nothing happened to the turbo or manifold. G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justustwo Posted July 9, 2013 Author Share Posted July 9, 2013 Thats a great bit of info Gremlin and especially the picture showing the placement of the probe. I am very very tempted to drill in situ (madman who sell the system also recommend to do it with the engine on tickover )but think i will attempt to take the whole manifold inc turbo off at least then I can get my nice old 1940`s cast iron Walker Turner pillar drill on it.It also allows me to inspect a bit Glad to hear that you had no problems with metal thickness and tapping into manifold as dont want to have to go with welding a stubb on as that could also lead to a cracked manifold if the the correct preheat/post heat sequence is used. Can i also ask who welded up your downpipe (the flange at the top)or is it an off the shelf item like that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gremlin Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Hi, Downpipe is a standard off the shelf item for a turbo D. G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justustwo Posted July 10, 2013 Author Share Posted July 10, 2013 ok .Just that mine looks different to that with no weld up by the flange Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tolley Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 could you not start the engine then drill the hole Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justustwo Posted March 9, 2015 Author Share Posted March 9, 2015 A bit of an old thread but yes was told by a few people to do it that way but its just something that niggled away at me beforehand that knowing my luck I would be the poor unfortunate idiot where it got stuffed up for some reason. Anyway to the whole manifold of with the turbo then drilled and tapped the manifold.all sorted for at least 18 months now and egt monitor going well ,just wished I had drilled and tapped the inlet manifold at the sametime as now want to set up pre and post air inlet temperature senders either side of a new ready to install full width alisport intercooler to monitor difference from standard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tolley Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 I am thinking of doing mine in the next few days ,still not sure about leaving the manifold in place . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justustwo Posted March 10, 2015 Author Share Posted March 10, 2015 I am thinking of doing mine in the next few days ,still not sure about leaving the manifold in place . thats exactly how I ummed and arred about it ...but at the end of the day its your vehicle and if you are even contemplating taking the manifold off then there must be a valid reason. its also easier to get the whole thing done exactly in the place and direction you want the tap to go in with manifold off with zero chance of any swarf finding itself in the wrong places. good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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