What to look for in a D1.. The next potential vehicle

[Josh NZ]

Hey guys.

I'm usually found lurking in the series forum but I recently sold my stage 1 v8 and I couldn't bear to leave the warm(??) embrace of the green oval for too long. I'm considering a discovery. Why?

Well, defenders 90/110 still fetch prices waaay out of my budget. We are talking $10k upwards for any condition. Discos on the other hand are plentiful and much more fairly priced.

In NZ, our climate is much kinder than in the UK. The trucks aren't nearly as affected by rust so trucks from early 1990s are still in good nick.

I want a vehicle to haul the gear, carry the people and traverse the tracks. It will see everything from loong road trips to ski field mountains, sheep farm country and long gravel road trips. It will work for a living!

So I ask the congregation.. What do need to watch out for? Gearbox, engine, seat types/configs and specs? I have a basic understanding of what I should get.. 300 series, r380, 7 seats and non EDC.. On the right track?

I'm a keen DIYer (it's in our blood!) and I love a good challenge.

Hoping for some informative replies

Josh

[HPLP]

Josh,

Realisticly the NZ market is split between Jap import (the vast majority) and NZ new. The jap ones are autos with the EDC pump and the NZ new are mainly manuals. The main question I would suggest you decide is whether you want a V8 auto or a 300tdi. Rust generally, as you've said unless its been putting boats or doing lots of beach driving up north for example, is not a problem here (NZ) but severe lack of maintance is. The WOF is a joke comepared to the MOT in the UK or the NCT in Ireland.

I have a jap import 300tdi auto which I fitted a non edc pump to as there was problems with the existing edc pump. I ended up with this as it was cheap and I got what parts I needed for a good price from Ross at S4wd in Christchurch.

Hugh

[Josh NZ]

Hi Hugh,

Yes I would agree on the WOF comment! Ah I would prefer a diseasel over a v8 to be honest even though the user charges are a pain!

Manual is a must though, auto is a little boring for me personally so I suppose it's NZ new (which is a great thing anyhow).

Cheers for the info mate. Can of worms question. Disco would keep up with a defender off road (for the most part) but better on road?

[HPLP]

Aye a Disco will keep up with a defender. They ride the same onroad just more comfortable really. I looked at a few manuals and was disappointed in their condition and the jap ones seemed to be far better condition wise.

If you can find a good manual, have fun but they seem to be rare here.

I wouldnt discount a auto as if you tune the engine it should be just as good.

H

[Nigelw]

Main things to look for are poorly executed repairs and general lack of maintenance, depends on sellers but I have been known to crack off level plugs and using a 20ml syringe and a bit of tube pull oil out to look, kind of wish I'd done the same on my current one.

Check everuthing works and if they try and fob you off with, "oh but it is nearl 20yrs old, what do you expect?" Then just walk, they are looking for a mug who is looking to spend money.

Yes an auto is lazy but can be a blessing off road, although they will all be EDC which you stated you want to stay away from, really simple system, rarely goes wrong, and any and all problems have in reality been hyped out of context by people who in reality knew not enough to fix it, old skool mech works and when it don't you need a new one, a little more complex than a mech pump but can afford better economy if set up right. Manual boxes often suffer when some tool sticks the wrong oil in or get too slap happy during changes, look out for oil leaks and crunchy changes.

Interior wise, be sure it is all there and the switches work, check for missing fuses, some fuses are pulled deliberately in an ownets ploy to make you think cheap switch when it is really an expensive motor and dash out job(please do not ask how I know that one).

[Josh NZ]

Cheers for that Nigel, I hoped you would chime in. In terms of the truck, I'm not overly worried if it's a little tatty on the outside, I'm not looking for a driveway queen but is it still the same test drive procedure? Eg drive it like I stole it once warm and check smoke, noises, gear shifts? Take it up a hill?

[Nigelw]

Mmmmm, the test drive.

Right, this is just how I prefer to buy a car, everyone is different!

Be sure to arrange a viewing time that you can be there at least a half hour early and that the car if possible can be stone cold from the night before, if it is likely that it is a daily driver then arrange an early morning viewing to be sure to catch out the warmer uppers with bad starting and smoking issues from cold.

When you get there look at the ground not only where it is parked now but in the area that it could usually be parked, oil leaks make mess, the bigger the mess the more chance of poblem leaks or a neglectful owner who just can't be bothered to sort them.

Now comes the fun bit, look round it from the outside, note dings, scuffs, scrapes and pay attention to things like mud and silt in the areas that are hard to get at with the high pressure washer, as you say rot in NZ is not a real concern but be mindful that the usual rot spots still apply!!!

Inside, look at the clock, and then the foot pedals, if the clock reads low but the pedals say otherwise then it could be a high mile clocked back or a low mile but stop start shunting around town, I prefer high mile motorway cruisers as they have always been in top gear and normally singing along with an easy life and plenty left to go, a shunting around town car has spent a lot more time ticking over crawling through traffic and will have had a hader life in the drive train dept, something not to be over looked either as that has a knock on effect with long term reliability, engines on these types of cars should have an hour meter as well as a spedometer as the engines are running longer than the miles are being racked up. What condition the interior is in tells you a lot, immaculate ready for sale means they want to sell but also means they have something that was easily scrubbed up, foot mats show wear but also what sort of driving it normally does too, rubbish ad junk usually means they don't care about the state and not a good sign! All switches should be there and should function accordingly, if it is a 5door and the back ones don't work ask why, it can be that they have been locked for a reason like it being used as a van or commercial truck, check the interior fuse board for missing or blown fuses, blown can be nothing or something, removed means you need to know why, could be heated rear window shorting or can be much more serious, windows tell stories too, scratches inside is a tell tale sign of a loose dog in the car where it can scratch the glass jumping at passers by, not a bad sign but worth knowing something of the occupants, gear shift sitting correctly in the center detent position, again not an issue but a niggle when you have to fight detent springs for 3,4 & 5, I think I'm right in saying that you get it warmer there for longer, and in that case look at the dash for signs of cracking and fading, the plastics age badly when in the sun a lot and a garaged car is more likely to have a better interior without such problems, headlinings can and do sag, this is the foam backing for the fabric breaking up, again, not an issue but can be tedious watching it flap in the breeze in the rear view whilst motoring along, easy cure but time consuming, you get rain there and always check for damp roof linings and carpets/trim, alpines can and do leak at the seals and sun roofs, well, very often the drain channels get blocked with dust and debris and it comes in the top, again, if fitted they should work, if not and they have been siliconed down then potential problem and requuires lifting of carpets as the insulation holds water and it will find an open seam to seep into and rust, SRS systems? Not sure whether you had them or not as it was only on some models in the UK and Europe, again the check light must come on and go off again, pain in the hole but if your safety test is like the UK or our technische Keuring then be careful of a bill to put it right, and lastly audio equipment, some had flashy multi disc changers under the seats whilst others had to wait for the valves to warm up before changing channels, if there is no radio then bargain a discount, if it is there and when you turn the car on it is loud then either they were enjoying the last song on the radio or use it to hide the annoying grinding and rumbling noises.

Before starting, now I always used the washer bottle as a good indicator of the owners habits, water says a lot as it is cheap and readily available but screen wash usually meant that it was thought about, here in Belgium it means squat, they do it out of habit and are taught to use it, not sure what it is like over there but maybe worth a look, check for leaks and low levels with the water and oils, low water on a 300 can mean a lot!!! Check the oil filler cap for mayo too, this is a funny one as it can mean one of two things, 1 it has a blown head gasket(no trauma on a 300 and usually easily and quickly sorted unless you need a new one) 2 it is the shunting around town car that starts, runs into town and doesn't get a chance to boil off the water vapour in the oil due to not getting hot enough, running temp is quite quickly achieved but a reasonable drive is needed to get the oil hot enough to boil the moisture off, if you are checking an auto then look up how to check tranny fluid, can't remember off the top of my head tonight, sorry, if you can sneak a peek in the airbox at the condition of the filter, if it's dirty then just note that it might be smokey! Clean or relatively fresh is a really good sign, as is the pressence of fresh looking filters, most likely freshly serviced prior to sale, rusty stains anywhere near the header tank are bad!!! Condition of the coolant and intake pipe wok, if there are furry crystals aound the coolant pipe joints that is an indication of a slight coolant leak and might just need the clip done up tighter or simply the pipe re-seating.

Starting up, very important is how easily it starts, lots of turning over or snif of the key, smoking, black usually means uunburnt fuel as does grey/white, blue gives a hint of burning oil, excessive oil consumption and blue smoke nearly always has me changing piston rings and honing bores, let it tick over and have the bonnet open to look and listen for rattles and noises, alternator bearings can squeal, water pump and power steering pump bearings can do likewise, check for fresh fluid loss, coolant can be "P" gasket behind the timing chest, oil, well usual sspects really, PAS fluid from a leaky steering box perhaps? There are two things that give annoying but functional rattles, one being the lift pump and the other being the vacuum pump, both run off the cam shaft and do rattle.

The actual drive, you need to have no music(I know how you love Miley swinging on her wrecking ball and all that, but) you need to hear what it is doing when you start the engine, when you press the clutch and select gears, any backlash can be felt and heard as clunks and bangs through the props and gear box, take off should be smooth and not juddery, juddering can mean a bunch but clutch springs and excessive back lash as you apply the torque through the props, but equally it can be indicative of a worn "A" frame ball joint and or trailing arm/"A" frame bushes, once moving note the noises from the car, tyres are good at playing tricks as aggressive tyres make a racket at even low speeds, wheel bearings rumbling, transmission hum and groaning, notchy changes and sticking shifts can show worn synchro hubs, also be sure to not only engage low but also to ensure the center diff is working correctly and the lamp illuminates and extinguishes appropriately, hills are a must!!! You need to have a good half hour drive and a blast on the highway too, it has to pull well in all gears and smoke should be at a minimum, overfuelling will show up as black soot and might be a sign of a tweeked pump, keep a stern eye on the temp needle too, it should rise into about 1/3 sit a while then rise to midway and sit there steady, sitting low can be sticky thermstat and not getting up to temp, same for over heating.

Above all things the inspection and test drive must be executed as though you are playing a hand of poker for a million bucks, let nothing slip if you are happy, negotiate and negotiate some more if you are not happy, and just remember, you went to look, buying was optional, if it is not what it should be then be polite and walk away.

Sure I missed some points but a list to give you something to think about