Chicken Drumstick
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Posts posted by Chicken Drumstick
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I'd guess the only risk with a 1.3:1, you could go to the cost and expense of buying and fitting, only to find it is a halfway house and doesn't solve the problem. A 1.4 would normally be a lot cheaper to try out.
Discos would have had something like a 235/70 tyre or equiv, all about 29" tall. A 265/75R16 is 31.7" tall with the same gearing would be over geared. I'd guess the 1.4 would bring them pretty close mph per 1000rpm. I'll have a look on the Ashcroft gearing calculator now.
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The Ashcroft calculator only shows one gear set for the ZF 4-speed auto, so I'll assume they are all the same.
235/70R16 - 1.2:1 - 60mph = 2172rpm
265/75R16 - 1.2:1 - 60mph = 1987rpm
235/70R16 - 1.4:1 - 60mph = 2528rpm
265/75R16 - 1.4:1 - 60mph = 2313rpm
I'd image a 1.4 would drive a heck of a lot better than the 1.2 with the only trade off being slightly more noise at motorway speeds. 50mph is only just over 1600rpm with the 1.2 and big tyres, so right on the boost threshold or just off boost, so no wonder it struggles to maintain speed at this rpm.
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What sort of exhaust are you after? Cheap mild steel, stainless, quiet, loud etc?
btw you shouldn’t have noticed any power loss with a broken exhaust. Probably the opposite as most exhausts are restrictive.
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6 hours ago, jason110 said:
This is sound advice. You could discuss tdi vs td5 all day long and then some.
buy on condition
Certainly not saying don't consider condition. But as you can buy all the bits relatively easily to repair, I'd probably opt for a tatty Td5 over a tidy Tdi if they were the same money and both solid vehicles. But it does come down to your longer term plans. Which I admit for the op may be less of a concern if it is a first vehicle. Few people stick or get to keep their first vehicle, although many wish that they had!
But a for instance. You can fairly easily swap a Td5 (or even something like an M57) into a 300Tdi. But it is still a fairly major project for most people and will come at a cost that typically involves 4 figures. It would also be a modified vehicle. A Td5 should go well in 100% stock form and as mentioned, if you plan to off road, the traction control is quite a game changer in some situations.
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9 hours ago, ekh said:
Thank you for all the information, I'll try and drive a few and see which I prefer. The only defender I have driven so far is a 2013 110 with the 2.2 puma which I imagine is a pretty different experience from both the Tdi and Td5.
The Puma (also known as a Tdci) is still very much a Defender to drive. But yes, they are a step on again. And generally are more refined and go better stock for stock. The obvious differences are the dash and you don't have the traditional vents that open up to the outside. Plus the 6 speed gearbox and Ford Transit based engine. The Puma's go well and can be tuned for a similar 150-190hp as the Td5's. The 6 speed box is a mixed bag. 6 gears are good, but the gear change is very clunky and jerky compared to the older 5-speed transmissions. In reality you can't go wrong with any. And if you plan to keep, Defenders are easy to mod and swap different or later engines into.
Personally I think the Td5 is the sweet spot. I like the older dash and vents. But you get a good blend of performance and refinement. Also, if you plan to off road, the traction control is quite a game changer in some situations. Note, traction control was optional on a Td5 though, so not all have it. Condition is important too and tidy vs tatty or solid vs rotten might also play a part in any decision. Although worth bearing in mind, you can replace every single part on a Defender. Which is a rare thing compared to other cars. This means that no matter what is broken, worn or corroded, it can be replaced and normally is a fairly easy job to do.
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42 minutes ago, ekh said:Hello everyone,
This summer I am looking at buying an old defender 90 as my first car, and the choice is between a 300Tdi and TD5.
Looking online, TD5s seem to be more expensive than 300Tdis, however have higher MPG and more power than the 300Tdi.
My question is, is it worth spending extra to buy a TD5? Does anyone have any experience driving a 300 Tdi economically or can anyone who has owned both comment on the difference in running costs? Does the extra power of the TD5 really make a difference driving in the UK?
Also as it is my first car I am expecting insurance to be astronomical either way, but is there a difference in insurance cost between them?
Any insight from owners would be appreciated as I am really unsure of what to go for.
Thanks in advance.
While both vehicles look similar, there are some evolutionary differences.
Lets take a step back. The 200Tdi and 300Tdi are very similar, so if thinking of one, worth considering the other. The 300Tdi is IMO a more productionised (aka cheaper to build) version of the 200Tdi. As the Discovery and Defender had slightly different variants of the 200Tdi. The development of the 300Tdi let them have a single engine type for both vehicles. There where some advances with the 300Tdi being a serpentine belt. But power, torque, mpg and performance are pretty much the same (technically the Defender 200Tdi was less powerful than the Discovery variant, the 300Tdi has the same specs as the Disco 200Tdi engine). In practice however, I'd say a 300Tdi seems to be a little more refined than a 200, but it is very close. The only difference is the gearbox. The 200Tdi uses the older LT-77 5-speed, while the 300Tdi uses the R380 5-speed. In theory the R380 is stronger and reverse is in a different location. In practice there is very little real world difference. And I've driven more nicer shifting LT-77's than R380's.
Overall a 200 and 300 are both good vehicles. I had an L-Reg 300Tdi hard top as my first vehicle way back in 1997.
The Td5 brought in a number of changes. The Td5 engine is more powerful (although the standard tune for the Defender sucks, the engine goes a lot better in the Disco 2 in standard tune, but lets come back to this later). so the Td5 is quicker than a Tdi and has more tuning potential that the Tdi will never match. However by modern car standard both vehicles are pretty slow. The Td5 uses the same R380 5-speed as the 300Tdi. Other changes include things like a digitally controlled speedo instead of cable, optional traction control (for off road use to simulate limit slip differentials, it isn't a road bias stability system). And the likelihood to find factory air con and central.
All in all the Td5 is dynamically a better vehicle. Faster, more refined and maybe better specced.
Downsides. Well as you've said, a Td5 might cost more to buy. And I think the thickness of some of the body panels was reduced. So a Td5 is more prone to panel damage and corrosion. Not a major thing, but something you might notice more so when looking at examples. Such as corrosion around the rivets on the side of the rear tub. Something you'd see less often on a Tdi model. The chassis also underwent some revisions on the Td5 with an ever so slightly larger tank at the rear of the vehicle instead of under the drivers seat. Think it is only a gallon or so bigger of usable capacity.
The Td5 engine is a lovely engine and arguably one of the best "Rover" designed engines. It has a few quirks, but overall is a solid and reliable engine. They also sound lovely with an aftermarket exhaust and can quite easily get to 150-190hp with a few mods (that you'd need to declare insurance wise). A Tdi is good for more like 120-135hp mod for mod. But there is a difference in how they drive. The Td5 has less low end and a strong mid and more revs. A very noticeable boost threshold and arguably more laggy feel to it. A Tdi pulls like a steam train off idle, but won't rev the same.
The Tdi's can sound nice too, more gruff than a Td5 and not as musical. Really the biggest difference is refinement or lack thereof with the Tdi's. Good stout engines, but a Td5 should be more refined at any and all speeds.
MPG wise. I'd say neither are likely to be great. It'll depend how you drive and where. I'd say a sensible expectation would be 25-28mpg with either engine. Although both can see over 30mpg and both capable of nearer the teens if modded. Overall I'd probably say the Tdi is the more frugal. But really too close to call it.
As for maintenance/complexity. They are pretty similar, the Td5 you might want a code reader, while the Tdi is purely spanners. But both are simple and easy to work on.
Not sure if that helped or not.
I'd say try and grab a drive with both engines and see what you think. Might be worth checking some insurance quotes too, as I don't know if they will vary between engines.
As a conclusion - A Tdi & Td5 are similar enough that either would be as good as the other for almost anything. So it may not matter which you went for. But both carry advantages and disadvantages depending on budget and what you want from the vehicle and what you plan to do with it in the future.
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I really like the idea of a PS-10. However when I looked at them a number of years ago. The brake discs were no longer available. Being something bespoke by Santana. For overland this might be an issue unless there is now a supply (I haven’t checked for ages). I’d guess with work and money you may be able to adapt to Defender brakes, but didn’t investigate this enough.
The PS-10 is also based on the Series 109. So you may want to check some dimensions against a 110 as they may differ slightly if you wanting to try and retro fit body parts.
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On 1/20/2024 at 9:38 PM, Bowie69 said:
30% more than the sport, which I think managed nearly 50mpg.
50mpg sounds very high for an RRS. A quick Google is suggesting a lot less, so I wonder if 50mpg is not correct?
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if you want to learn about offset, Google is your friend...
But essentially ET means from the rim centre to the front face in mm. A negative ET will move the rims outboard and a positive more inboard.
e.g.
If you had a 8" wide rim with 00 offset you'd have a 4 inch dish on the front and back. A 7" wide rim with 00 offset would be 3.5" dish either side. While an 8" rim with say a -25ET would have a 5 inch dish on the outside and a 3 inch dish on the inside. In this case making the rim stick out the arch an inch further than 00ET.
A 255/85 is design to fit a 6.5 - 8.5" wide rim. So any will work bar the 10j rim. Although IMO an 8" wide rim does make this size tyre look a little stretched. A 7" rim would probably be more ideal.
As for offset. Factory rims are 16x7 or 16x6.5 normally with an offset of +33ET, so quite tucked in the arch. With the 16x7's above you say you can get them in -20 and -25? tbh I've never really looked at these rims. But 5mm difference is going to make no odds at all and you'd never tell by eye. Odd that they offer such similar offsets. Either should work fine.
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49 minutes ago, miketomcat said:
I too am curious as to what they do and what are the benefits.
Mike
I believe they slightly adjust the pump timing to inject the fuel slightly earlier to get a longer/better burn. i.e. more fuel is turned into power and less wasted out of the exhaust. Years back places like Jeremy J Fern used to tamper with the engine timing, I think this was trying to achieve something similar but before these boost rings existed as a concept.
I can't say for certain, but I have a stock turbo modded 200Tdi that runs pretty well in an 88 coiler. A mate has a dyno verified 190hp Td5 90 and in a straight line he is quicker, but not quick enough to over take if he is behind me. I'm no way saying the Tdi is this power level, it most certainly isn't. But it does run rather well. Did a bit of a fun drag race last summer in a field (0 to about 70'ish mph) against an EFI 3.9 86 coiler and an 88 3.9 comper. I beat both of them.
My 200Tdi has a tweaked pump, slightly tweaked boost, free flow exhaust dual inlet manifold and a boost ring.
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lol and they say it isn't a Discovery.....
j/k
But you can clearly see where the design language has come from with the profile, shape, alpine lights, longer bonnet, spare wheel. I would say this D2 looks amazing to my eyes. So I suppose it isn't an insult to the new model. Why oh why did they have to put Defender badges on it. 🤦♂️
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Got around to fitting the item I bought. Mini review here:
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Just now, Chicken Drumstick said:
Yes exactly, hence why it is a self declaration. There are too many cars and variables for the gov to give examples or definitives, just like the radically altered or rebuilt regs. So it is down to you as the owner to interpret them and decide if you comply or not. To which you then sign. If the DVLA or DVSA decide to disagree, they will generally have the power they need. So you will never be able to find anyone to give you conclusive answers.
That said, for the most part it is fairly obvious with the intent of what they are wanting.
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6 minutes ago, FridgeFreezer said:
It's not the guidance, it's trying to find anyone who could tell me what the correct interpretation of the guidance should be... in the end no-one could tell me anything more than the very vague / wide-open stuff on their website so I went with it on the grounds my 109 is at the very worst no more dangerous than when it left the factory and it's almost entirely LR parts.
Yes exactly, hence why it is a self declaration. There are too many cars and variables for the gov to give examples or definitives, just like the radically altered or rebuilt regs. So it is down to you as the owner to interpret them and decide if you comply or not. To which you then sign. If the DVLA or DVSA decide to disagree, they will generally have the power they need. So you will never be able to find anyone to give you conclusive answers.
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24 minutes ago, FridgeFreezer said:
Here's my experience:
The short version is that I could not find anyone anywhere who actually cares. so just go ahead with it and don't worry.
The entire process is a self declaration one, you have to sign to say you are meeting the guidance. So if it turns out you aren't, you would be liable. But there isn't an active check or pre-qualification process.
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2 hours ago, miketomcat said:
The bad news is it's not eligible for tax/MOT exempt till April 25. Our 110 was registered may 83 and I can apply shortly.
Mike
If I recall correctly the dates are different for each. So you might be able to get Historic status and be valid for one but not the other. Pretty sure that’s what happened with one of my Series 3’s.
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Yes it should be quite possible. You'll have to decide on a few things, like engine location/gearbox location and maybe some custom propshafts. I believe the downpipe can be more of an issue on a 109, although I'm sure there are kits/solutions these days. And you'll probably need to decide what you are doing with the steering.
Ultimately a 300Tdi auto is a bit of a slug, although you can chip/remap the EDC injection pumps these days. For me though having had a 200Tdi 88. It went well and I did a lot of miles in it, but it was way too unrefined and I wouldn't go down that route again. If you aren't doing big milages I think a Rover V8 is the way to go or maybe even a T-Series 2.0 petrol. And arguably an engine swap and an auto gearbox in a 109, you have to question if you'd just be better off investing in a 110. As you are removing quite a lot of the character of a Series vehicle.
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4 hours ago, Nonimouse said:
The final picture shows a cat with loads of room to manoeuvre to place the vehicle safely. With your experience in trialling/greenlaning your brain will be telling you the same thing.
I had no part in setting up either of these events. They are actually RTV 's and at National level. But it is interesting you picked the last photo as this is what happened next....
Which I think really does go to show that sometimes it isn't easy to spot such hazards or how people might drive them.
4 hours ago, Nonimouse said:We're not knocking your idea, what we are saying is that this is probably not ideal for the job. If your insurer insists on this then ask them how they would do it. As an expert witness, I've been called to court over a couple of vehicle rolls, where people have been killed. I was asked by the Coroner at what point a vehicle becomes unstable. My answer was that the driver can tell as he/she/they can feel the vehicle destabilise, at which point a trained driver will turn downhill to stabilises what is usually the uphill rear wheel. I've driven a fair few Japanese vehicles with inclinometers fitted, all of which I've put black tape over. Your vehicle is, as I mentioned before, unique and the bolt on inclinometer is not approved for accurate measurements or even guidelines, it's a toy. However me wandering around a P&P site with a ranging rod and a hand held clinometer https://ninefit.uk/products/suunto-pm5spc-opti-clinometer?gad_source=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIk5iAuM_igwMVMJFQBh1Ngw9mEAQYAiABEgLBgPD_BwE that is TUV/CE/BSS approved to measure amongst many other things, slopes is allowable as a defence in court.
I think you are taking this way out of context. I just want it for a bit of fun and a way of knowing what a certain slope may be angle wise. I'm not out measuring the slopes and we have been trialling for decades. It just a matter of self pride, that if I set an event up (which I a number of times a year). I'd like to know I've done my due diligence. e.g. a slope might be 40 degrees, which for another event we'd maybe drive along or at an angle. But for a tyro you'd have to stick with more of a straight up or down trajectory. There will be no insurance issues, no investigations. Just people enjoying motorsport safely.
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6 minutes ago, geoffbeaumont said:
Provided the GPS is decent - no way I could rely on the one in my phone for this, it wanders all over the place. Confuses the satnav and has my speed fluctuating wildly (apparently my car is capable of impressive speeds and truly amazing acceleration....).
Slightly off topic, but is it a modern'ish vehicle? I do use a gps speedo app on a phone quite a bit. Technically as far as I know they should be relatively accurate. If I use the app in my Jimny it does indeed fluctuate +-5mph constantly and never gives a constant read out. I assume there must be some interference. Because the same phone and app produce very stable readings in all my other vehicles.
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47 minutes ago, Snagger said:
Quite. And as every vehicle has a different CoG and tipping angle, dependant on differences as small as tyre pressure and driver weight, let alone mods, and those go out of the window once dynamic stability and kinetic energy get involved, so it seems a little futile. I haven’t done a great deal of off roading, but got to some fairly significant angles on the Val d’Isere slopes and even with my limited experience could feel when the load on the upslope tyres was getting light. If I could feel that, them I’m sure experienced and more talented drivers would feel it far more sensitively. Still, if folk like gadgets, that is their choice. I just wouldn’t encourage them to trust those toys.
Unless you have some kind of active suspension that lets you raise one side of the vehicle up (the side/end most downhill). Which to some extent the new LR models on EAS do for side slopes, but it is very limited. The vehicle will show a steeper angle than the terrain, so there will be no risk at all, as the slope will never be as bad as measured. Also this doesn't have to be an exact science, just enough to be an informed decision.
Slope angle is pretty hard to guess just looking at some ground (at least it is for me), even more so if you are on the side of a hill to begin with that might then have dips and rises. Hence the number of vehicles that do get rolled when off road.
For my intended use I'll drive onto a bit of ground I want to use. If it says 33 degree side slope, it's no. If it says 20 degree, its a yes. In reality both would be safe, but one is permitted, the other isn't (for Tyro's). Without a measure I'm just guessing and we have had it queried on some events. At least this way I'll have some idea. Plus aside from that, it is just a stat. And lots of people, often car people love stats; top speed, power, 0-60mph, tyre diameter, ground clearance, wading depth, breakover angle, crawl ratio etc etc etc.
I'm not sure I'm really understanding why you are so against this?
Just to give a bit more substance to this. This is a Tyro we ran last year, someone complained the gradient of the site was too steep for a tyro.
.thumb.jpeg.7fc5ca1dc3cf7c2e1bba7a225bb56a74.jpeg)
On the left by the fence line it gets steeper. As it happens it was well within the regs, but on the day nobody had any way of measuring what the gradient was. Ultimately it was just someone complaining, but it would have been nice to have had something more solid to shut them up with.
On a similar note, just by eyeballing, I personally would not be able to tell if these angles are too much for a tyro or not (remember not subjective on if you'd drive it or not, it is 25% and 50% by the blue book). For an RTV it doesn't really matter, but as a club we are much newer to running Tyro events which have these heavier restrictions.
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Just to clarify, I really don't want to use my mobile phone for any of this. The inclinometer apps tend to be pricey or full or adverts or both. But it is more logistics. I just don't want the faff of having to remember to bring my phone holder and have it taking up windscreen space.
As for using the inclinometer, I've done lots of off roading. I won't be using it for anything other than idle curiosity for anything I would normally do. But for setting up certain events I can now go and park on a bit of terrain and see if it exceeds the limits allowed. If it does I'll do something else, if it doesn't, I'll start putting some canes in the ground and set up a section.
While looking for a basic manual inclinometer which I found for about £23 delivered I saw this one that does a lot more. As said in my op, I didn't like the price. But I would genuinely find all the info it can display very handy. Plus it would do what I'm after inclinometer wise. I just had questions based on the product description.
As it turns out I ordered this in the end for £25 delivered:
When it arrives I'll see if it was a mistake or not. But for £25 I'm guessing/hoping it won't be. Personally I do not believe there will be any issue with accuracy either. Or to put it another way, it'll be a lot more accurate than simply guessing.
FYI, for Tyro trials you have to adhere to these limits:
- 7.1.2. Any longitudinal gradient must be 50% maximum.
- 7.1.3. Any transverse gradient must be 25% maximum.
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I think @Cornish Rattler is just trolling. They posted the same thread over on Landyzone at about the same time.
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There really is no right or wrong and there is a huge range. I tend to run 28psi all round as a starting point. If you are towing or hauling you'll want more air in, esp the rear tyres. All they way up to 40psi potentially.
You can also alter the handling balance a bit by going harder/softer on either the front or rear.
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2 hours ago, Hawklord said:
I have narrowed it down to either Continental crosscontact AT, General grabber AT3 or Michelin latitude cross with the Michelin winning at the moment as the reviews give it a very good rating in the wet which to me is a serious consideration. Has anyone got any opinions on my choices. As I said previously apart from occasional fishing trips 99% of my driving is on the tarmac.
tbh you probably won't go wrong with any of them. The only real time a variance in tyres matters is competition use. For normal running about and driving, so long as it is the right type of tyre. Pretty much any brand will normally be more than good enough. That way you can choose based on appearance, price or availability.
All IMHO.
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3 hours ago, v90 said:
These are the rims i ended up getting https://www.jgs4x4.co.uk/defender-modular-steel-wheel-black-16x7-set-of-four/
I was trying to get et0 but didn’t realise until after i paid what mistake i made
I could allways go down in tyre size slightly, i wanted slightly thicker than originally tyres for a more aggressive look, how much do you think i should go down?
I think you will be fine. 00 offset on a 7" rim is rare. Most 00 offsets are 8 or 10" rims.
This the tyre doesn't change widths, just there the front and rear face are. The 7j rim on 08 offset means the inner face is in the same place as a 00 offset 8j rim.
What it does do is change where the centre line of the tyre is.
In terms of sizes, a 285/75 is quite a chunky tyre. But mostly a direct fit on a 90/110. Should be about an inch taller than a standard fitment 235/85, 265/75 or 7.50 x 16. But quite a bit fatter.
A 255/85R16 is a popular aftermarket choice for a Land Rover and would fit those rims well. Taller again by about another 1/2" but less fat. Sadly not very many tread patterns available in this size though.
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1.2 to 1.4 Transfer Box Costs
in Defender Forum (1983 - 2016)
Posted
Swapping over should be quite easy and perfectly DIY'able if you have tools, space and a mate to help. Or look at swapping the internals over. If you get somewhere to do either job it is at max 1 days effort, but really more like 1/2 day. So don't let them overcharge you on labour. Any half decent mechanic should be able to do, nothing specialist about the job. Although if it is an LR place doing it. Then transfer box and new one in should be more like 1.5 -2 hrs.