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I have been watching these forum threads since last Thursday and have declined from responding as I seek legal advice and check all our IP rights. I am extremely disappointed that another company has chosen to copy our product and is trying to pass it off as their own. I am even more disappointed that he has suggested that his copy is better than our original version, but, puts forward no evidence of testing to support his claims. It is also unbelievable they have tried to justify their means as trying to save the public money when all they are thinking is about is making profit by copying the work of others without adding any value to the product. We applaud any innovation that brings new original design to the market place. This product does not. We at Gigglepin 4x4 have been (and will be) at the forefront of winch innovation for years to come, we have a proven history and are well known for our superb customer support and after care. Here is a brief company and product history for those that do not know who we are. Gigglepin Twinmotor and 8274 upgrade history Gigglepin 4x4 first opened its doors in October 1997 exclusively working on Land Rovers. In 2000 I entered into the world of the winch challenge and have not looked back. In 2004 while defending my”Tough Trucks Trophy” I destroyed a M8274-50 mainshaft. It snapped in half costing me first place and pushing me to third overall. If there is one thing I hate, it’s losing. I set about designing a new hardened mainshaft and over the next year pushed the boundaries fitting much bigger faster motors and more importantly winning! In late 2004 early 2005 we started to play with two motors for the first time, this was to try to curb the escalating price of large slow single motors. This twin motor housing was engineered by adding an adapter plate on to a standard 8274 top housing to allow the fitment of a second motor, as shown. In 2005 we raced at the Croatia trophy with a large single 24v motor mounted on a long narrow diameter drum with hardened mainshaft and up rated solenoids. We chose not to use our prototype type twin motor housing had not been fully tested for reliability at this stage. We came 4th overall after losing our lockers on the final day. At that event I met Burkhard Eggeman who to my surprise also had a Twin motor 8274. I was surprised that we had taken two different directions, Burkhard had cut 2 original housings and welded them together to allow 2 motors to be fitted. Later in 2005 we started to use converted Twinmotor winches in anger, the results soon started to get noticed and it was not long before we were shipping them to Australia. In 2006 the Gigglepin Twinmotor winches really started to make their mark on the UK challenge scene taking all top three places at the UK’s toughest event ‘The Argyll Forest challenge’. The picture below shows our Twinmotor winch in action at the Argyll Forest challenge 2006, also note the lever on the free end of the winch. This lever controls the Freespool. This is our earliest version of the now legendary Gigglepin Freespool Here is a clip of that event of myself and Paul Wightman (my team mate) both using Gigglepin Twinmotor winches at The Argyll forest challenge It was during this event that we discovered that the standard gears were not strong enough for the extremes we were subjecting them to. The answer ? We went to gearbox experts ‘RT Quaife Engineering’ and set about designing the top housing we have been selling ever since. After the first unit was prototyped we set about rigorous testing of the unit, but it surpassed all our exceptions. It was after we had signed off the design and it was in full production that we made this Promotional Video showing the winch’s awesome capability: http://www.gigglepin4x4.net/8274/images/avi/finalmovie.wmv The winches started to sell and were embraced in Australia where they have won almost every major title, sometimes taking as many as eight of the top ten places. The reception in the UK was slow to start with many being dubious of the winch’s ability and strength. It did not take long before they started to win time and time again and it became unusual not to see Gigglepin winches dominating the top three places at every major event. Because we continue to develop and look at ways of improving our winches it was only a matter of time before we started to look at a Freespool design for the lower end. Our first attempt was at the Argyll forest challenge in 2006, we used a converted Warn lower housing, but it was not a success and we went back to the drawing board. It took us until the summer of 2008 before we launched our all new lower housing, it had taken 18 months of hard work, development and testing to get it right but it was worth it. By now Gigglepin had assembled a formidable testing team including Chris Abel (an upcoming star that has the ability to be an offroading Legend) Steve Gittins (a Welsh man with superb driving skills) Wayne and Mike Smith (the Australian legends that have won everything from The Australian Outback Challenge to the Malaysian Rainforest Challenge on multiply occasions) Rowan Canavan (Australian driver of pure class, his skill seeing him to first place in the Australian Outback Challenge and many other events) Adrian Turner (The British Bulldog, has driven and co driven at the highest level and has a trophy cabinet to prove it) And of course myself, Jim Marsden. (Winner of almost every major UK title and a well known face in Europe having graced the podium on many international majors from as far afield as Africa, Croatia and Portugal) The above crews dominate the scene at home and abroad allowing us to push our product development even further. Chris Abel had the honour of using the first freespool lower housing in competition. He did not disappoint, winning the prestigious 90 Degree Challenge 2008 at the first time of asking. Here is a clip of him using a Gigglepin GP82 winch on his way to victory: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=am_KsYcJZ8M Following this success and further testing we started the rollout of the new lower housings. It was during this period we noticed a fault with one of the gears. Gigglepin have a reputation of outstanding customer service and with this in mind we supplied every single customer who had bought a lower housing (over 75 of them) a new gear FREE OF CHARGE. The cost of this was substantial with each replacement costing nearly £100! But it was worth it to protect the name and superb reputation that Gigglepin had already attained. As we move into 2010 we look to the future which will see many new products becoming available that will allow the winch challenge competitor to tackle the very worst terrain. On a finishing note I would like to add a few things. If those out there believe that we are about let go our rights, think again. I would like to make it clear that Gigglepin 4x4 and RT Quaife Engineering have a superb relationship that allows both companies to work very well as a team. I would also like to add that RT Quaife Engineering DO NOT supply winch components to anyone else. Due to large investment in product research and testing both in computer simulations and in the field, we understand all the forces involved. Hence we are able and have always offered a 5 year warranty on the Top Housing and Mainshaft kits against faulty manufacturing or gear wear. Since the release of the Gigglepin Top Housing we have had no warranty claims on our top housings. On a brighter note We are pleased to announce a new dealer to the Gigglepin Network, OMT-Offroad in Germany and Gigglepin 4x4 are proud to announce that OMT are now part of the Gigglepin 4x4 Dealer Network. OMT will now be carrying all the Gigglepin 4x4 products in stock for immediate delivery in Germany. For further details please contact Marc @ http://www.omt-offroad.com/ Or Phone: +49 2947 97509-1 The Gigglepin Top Housing is 5 years old this year! To celebrate our 5 year anniversary of developing our bolt on Twinmotor conversion we are happy to offer some great price reductions on our Twinmotor top housings. Please check out our website @ www.gigglepin4x4.net But for those who are bit busy I have listed the special offers below: SPECIAL OFFERS: • GP Top housing +00% £550.00 • GP Top housing +13% £600.00 • GP Top housing +25% £650.00 • GP Top housing +40% £700.00 • GP Top housing +50% £750.00 • GP Top housing +60% £800.00 All prices include VAT@17.5% All Gigglepin top housings are supplied with a fitting kit and instruction pack. • GP Heavy Duty Mainshaft kit £230.00Inc VAT@17.5% Warn 8274 mainshaft upgrade kit, the up-rated mainshaft that replaces the existing mainshaft and cures six problems. • Bolted end cap to replace circlip • Increased material strength • Enlarged bearing surfaces to spread load evenly • Deletion of retaining plate groove giving maximum strength • Shimming of gears reducing gear tooth breakage of the splined cams • Up rated cam gear for perfect cam engagement & greater strength To further enhance the offers above, If you purchase any top housing together with a HD mainshaft kit we will offer a pair of GP brake shoes & GP seal kit for just £25 extra. This works out to be a saving of more than £30 on these 2 parts alone. Theses offers will shortly be available from our online shop. But, in the mean time if you wish to take full advantage, please don’t hesitate to contact our parts department on +44(0)1732 463600 or shop@gigglepin4x4.net One thing is certain: Gigglepin 4x4 will continue to develop and provide reliable, innovative, competition grade, off road products which will be of our own design. The future is bright Kind regards Jim Marsden Proprietor Gigglepin 4x4

Hi, Thank you for all the support and I apologise for the delay in responding, we have been seeking legal council and rechecking IP rights. We are obviously rather annoyed at this blatant copy although i can not say more at this time. I can confirm though that RT Quaife Engineering only supply Gigglepin 4x4 with these products and no others. The products are a Gigglepin design and are made for us by them and nothing more, however we a have superb relationship that allows each company to help the other in many fields not just winches. Once again hank you for your help. You will get a "No holds Barred" answer from myself and Gigglepin 4x4 very soon, please be patient it will be worth the wait. Kind regards Jim Marsden Proprietor Gigglepin 4x4

Hi, I am sorry to hear that you had a problem with our customer service. Please conact me directly 01732 463600 and i will get it dealt with so that no other suffer your experiences. I am not saying we always get it right, but speak to anyone who knows us and they will tell you that we always try to help where possible. Kind regards Jim Marsden Ps: The second website was a simple accident, we built a new site and removed the old, but still kept it alive. Unfortunataley we did not realise that there was still a link active from Google. this has now been reciftied. Sorry for any inconveince caused.

,Hi, Unfortunately it is true they have made a direct copy of our tried and tested Twinmotor tophousing. In fact it is so exact they have even copied our mistakes ! Even worse is they have copied our mainshaft upgrades as well These products are the end result of 7 years hard work, thousands of hours and thousands of pounds of development, to say we are a litle upset is a mild understatement. We would love to say "Don't buy that because it won't work" or "Don't buy that because it is poorly designed" but simple truth is that they have made an exact copy even down to the way the gears are cut and the same font for the writing on the side plate ! We are currently seeing what we can do to stop the sale of these items although the simple truth is probably not a lot apart from spend thousands on a court case we can ill afford. But by God we will fight ! All we can hope is that we can drum up enough support from our loyal friends and customers to keep the tide of these units spreading. These guys are worse than Scorpion (who at least had the decency to change somethings on the design!) So please back us, help us as we have helped so many of you over the last 7 years. Kind regards Jim Marsden Gigglepin 4x4

LOL

Already on the case

It was all great Quite a few international teams are looking for a UK event now that Muddy Truckers seems to have reached the halls of Legend. And although they like the sound of Tay, it is to far for many of them. This event is exactly what they are looking for, roll on 2009 (No pun intended) Jim B)

We also questioned this.....(Not cos we did not want Jas competing, i would like to add, but just as a safety thing) However, we were told that as the rear hoop was fully intact and the front was re-welded where it was cracked that this was acceptable ? No one was hurt this time which is great, but we really do need to tighten up our roll cage regs and the use of helmets. We wore helmets all weekend, they really are not a hinderence and they do save lives. Jim Ps: Sections 18 and 19 rocked

How much fun was that? 24 Special stages (SS) on day one each with a 10min DNF time all to be completed by the 23 teams by 5pm Really good mix of real 'Hardcore' stages and some very quick techincal stages. Then it was of to the next site for two night stages, both around 2 miles long. We are still trying to wipe the smiles of our faces........Simply brilliant There were some nasties though with Gorden Law deciding that being on your roof in a stream is more entertaining than driving through it, and Jason (Cider) Barrel rolling 9 Times? And nearly Giles Evans as well but he managed to catch it just in time Then plenty of hospitaility with the help of Matt and his Hog roast (That man was Mildly miffed as a parrot ) and of course plenty of Nitromors Cider and some stuff that looked like red diesel (Thanks Jason ) The next day was 50 very tough punches in Bampton with three special stages...... Once again, we loved it. Thanks to all for making this a REAL challenge event with all the trimming, It had speed, it had Techincal, it had Hardcore in fact everything that is required. It also had superb sponsers that put up some really good prizes and worked hard to give it a Big event feel. We will most definatelty be back. Fantastic Jim Ps: What a laugh

The format you are rfering to Andy is known as 'Punch control' and i agree it is an excellent way of doing an event. I have used this system many times myself when setting out events and have raced in events using this style (although without the speed camera ) And as you say, it is great and does level out during the day. Jim Ps: Cor 15mph speed limit Aaahhhhhhhhhhh

Hi Agostinho, Looking good If you need any more let me know and i'll get them sent over for you. Speak soon Jim

I know little of the site, it was an honest question In which case........ Bring it on Jim

No Brainer.... We'll be there, sounds like fun. Without meaning to sound silly? is Kirton big enough?? Jim

There are many ways of tackling this thorny issue. One is to use a higher mounting point for the hook to stop the blanket being dragged through as the cable is stowed. The other is to use a more open fairlead to allow the winch blanket to be easily removed should the worst happen. The winch blanket should in theory should never get into the winch when half down a cable in use, that is usually caused by a co driver being incorrectly positioned, laziness or tiredness. But all of these things do and will happen. The rest is personal choice and that of the organisation running the event. Jim Ps: Who voted "Yes" blankets should be used with synthetic rope Must have come from the wrong side of the Gene pool ....Joke

It was only built to turn heads........ It has done that. Right or wrong it has served the purpose it's owner intended. Jim Ps: He does however have some Unimog axles for sale

Would that be the slight mishap were you went end over end before barrel rolling twice and finally lying on your side...? Or the one where you tried to push a tree through the side of your head That was a superb roll, in fact it was so good that Gary Zoller tried to copy you later in the day but the judges only award half marks as he only barrel rolled with no end over end I'm sure he will try harder next time Filipie you would have laughed yourself silly Good effort Mate B) Jim Ps: No body was seriously hurt making this offroad comedy only wounded pride and and some bent metal work. Pps: Very impressed with the cage, hardly a mark. 10 out of 10

Cos' the rules say so....... The rule is '37, Most 38.5 Boggers measure a true 37' inch anyway. They are pretty relaxed about the tyre rule, if you can force on there tyre gauge you can run However one crew was not allowed to run as there tyres did not fit the gauge, and expensive mistake to make. Jim

It is very common in Europe i am afraid......

I near wet myself............ Genius What a great bloke

I have been lucky enough to test many ropes for many companies and agree that most fall to the floor or whip back only gently. There is one though that does recoil and that is Masterpull, easily indentified by it's light coloured out sheath and way the handles (Almost like steel) This makes a noise like a pistol shot when snapped and does recoil. However i very much doubt that it could hurt anyone. I think a move to educate people to use blanket and protectors in the right places would be far more benifical than forcing people to use them for the sake of it on Plasma style ropes. I vote NOT NEEDED on the basis of most pulls do not require them. Jim

No, The damage we do is to the inside of the steering box and usually caused by hitting large rocks at speed, or concrete walls on bridges The reason i leav the bars exposed is that over the years o have found steering guards to be mora of a pain than a help so i do not bother. The only thing we ever damage is the Draglink which is very easy to straighten out. Jim Ps: @KBE: You got any action stuff? Nev is as Funny as that...... No really?

Awesome pics...... Loads of memories Commitment is the secret We did hit that water hard..... It was great Jim

Well........... Did anyone mention the steering box........? Great fun, great people, amazing country. As Adrain says the sections where a little easy but as a whole the event was wonderful, Special well done to the challenger boys for bringing back some silverware (Team spirit) and a big Thank you to Filipe Santos, Johnny and Agga's for really helping us and bending over backwards (Adrain loved that bit ) to help where ever possible. The Winners deserve a big thank you as well, they lent us a short side halfshaft allowing us to complete the event with some diginty. Even when they knew it could have cost them if they had problems later. The transit stages were breath taking drives across stuuning mountains that stretch out for ever (55 km in one day) and then hospitaility was great, with wine flowing freely and food in plenty. We will go back. This is not an expensive event to take part in and the prizes are huge. A sensibly preppared 90 with two winchs and Simex will be very competive here which opens this event up to all comers. They are prizes down to 10th place (500euro) and with only 10 finishing ouit of the near thirty starters that is a realistic target.There was a lot lost in translation on the rules, but now we know we can advise if anyone fancys having a go. Fancy something different? Give it a go Jim Ps: Did i tell you i couldn't turn right? PPS: Andy, the prize money was going to pay for the hair transplant next time......

Water wings and rubber duck packed Just got to get the car ready Jim

Congratulations everyone..... Superb event, revamped and hard as nails. Proper "you have got to be joking" type sections, making this the toughest event in the UK again....awesome. We had some bad luck with a large tree coming up and crushing the underside of a solenoid box and cutting the wires inside (how unlucky is that?) and then in the second section i drove out of a gulley and dropped my car on a large tree stump that managed to wedge itself between the gearbox and the bell housing shattering the pipe fixings. Again a freak accident that would be almost impossible to replicate But that is offroading. Until next year....... Jim