o_teunico

I started this tread to see if what I wanted was possible and/or had been ever done. I am taking a lot of ideas and advice on 6x6 building. I hope all the info going here will be extremly usefull in a near future for all the LR4x4 comunity. Road regulations in Spain can be a limiting factor for me, but would´t affect to people in other places with better regulations. That Krupp Protze has been a great inspiration. Those belly spare tyres will be easier to build/MoT approve than the tracked arrangement I imagined at first instance. I could even try to get it legalized as "spare wheel carrier". There will be lots of issues to overcome once a setup has been choosen to build: chassis/axle/propshaft clearence, shock absorber type/location, brake lines limiting articulation, exhaust pipes running where new components should be located... In my case the most limiting factor is road regulation and intended use of the car. It should have, at least, five comfortable places and be able to be a usefull every day car. Height could be a problem. Extreme suspension/body lift will solve clearence problems, but with my intended +80mm track I will be allowed by regulations to lift the car a maximum of 150mm. "Calzada da Ponte" is a street I use nearly every day, wich has a height restriction of 2 metre. If I add that I want some 9.00R16 tyres...you see that I will need a RRC low roof conversion and a suspension/running gear layout that will involve no more than 100mm height gain. As Bill said "Some enthusiasts naively believe that if 4 wheel drive is good then 6 or 8 wheel drive just has to be better. Building that 6x6 taught me that is rarely the case". Maybe a 100" bobbed Disco with belly wheel wil do the trick for me. Belly axle beeing driven with a toothed belt from pulley located at t-case brake drum will be easy to do and cheap. I have three series t-cases at home. Sourcing more will be extremly difficult. Back in 2004/2005 some african buisnessmen saw this area as the perfect source of secondhand parts for african market and took with them all the series stock from local scrapyards. My soul is worthless and I need all my internal organs, so, an underdrive from Ashcroft will be something unaffordable for me (BTW, they are out of stock). How could I obtain a cheap underdrive? My extra LT230 idea saw clearence problems with chassis, and I will need three gears instead of two. Three gears? Chrysler is the solution! Chrysler A727 auto box used in 80s RRC has a 3rd 1:1, perfect for stock 205R16 road tyres, a 2nd 1.45:1, perfect for 9.00R16 off-road tyres, and a 1st 2.20:1 that will make a good underdrive. And best of all, it is already converted for LT230. I could source a cheap Getrac 6 speed box from a Ford Transit or ZF from Iveco Daily. After addapting it to Tdi, a short propshaft from 6sp box will drive the A727 (with no torque converter and moddified for no auto-shifting) and it will deliver power trough standard LT230. In this setup engine will certainly need to be moved forward, or alternatively, rear axle flipped and matted to drop-box, as in Bill´s original 6x6, for propper propshaft length. As consecuence of big-sized tyres in belly axle, door window will have very little down travel. There are situations where you need to take your head off the car to see where are you doing. Solution? Lambo doors! Engineering company said they can be fully legalized if I mount some hinges with "CE" approval. Lastly, another 8x8 setup, simpler than the one I posted before. Clearence between 3rd axle and 4th axle´s propshaft could be an issue. Fridge, what are the wheelbases of that superb VOLVO? I read about a tread called "Bill´s cars" or "Bill´s vehicles" that someone in this forum created to show info on those great machines that Bill made, but have been unable to locate it. Any link?

Webby, it will be grat if you could post some info about everydady driving a 6x6: tyre wear/wind up, braking, turning circle, ubdersteering at high speeds... You could post it here http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=81152

My brother is a lathe/milling machine technician. He worked in several companies in the Basque Country and also at the GKN Driveline factory in Vigo. He works now in a petrol station and unfortunately does not have lathe or mill at home

This could be cheap and work properly Blue:pulley Green:belt Red:propshaft 3rd to 4th proshaft will be located left hand for easy belt tensioning and diff clearence when on full articulation. Rearmost axle pointing rearward as in Bill´s 6x6 for longer propshaft. Bill, do you like this method for track building?

I have found this while searchig info about 6x6 http://brassgoggles.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=25213.175

Translation -Installation of 8x16" wheels with 285/74R16 116Q M+S tyres and 30mm spacers. -Suspension system moddified with TUF BACK BA2524/2525 shocks front/rear and TUF BACK BA2105/2102 coils fore/aft and QT3 trailing arms in both axles. -Front bumper changed for handmade one with reduced size number plate and rear one changed for handmade one with lower section (compulsory since law insist on 700mm beeing maximum rear bumper height). -Plastic wheel arches and sill protectors. -T-Max winch, EW-12500 model (serial number included). -Places reduced to 5 (it was a seven seater, but parts´ weight needed to be compensated with seat reduction or otherwise VGW will be over the limit with seven seats in use). -New curb weight 2210kg. -Height 2130mm, Width 1890mm, Length 4610mm, Rear overhang 1070mm, Front/Rear track 1610mm -Rear spare tyre carrier taken away. All paperwork´s bill was nearly 500Eur. , but a new law appeared in february 2010 and now it´s more difficult/expensive. This same car has a snorkel waiting for fittment, but paperwork´s cost is bigger than snorkel´s price.

Slightly OT, but I want to show you how a modified vehicle has to be made road-legal in Spain. -You contact an approved engineer and mechanical lab. They will make all the relative paperwork showing in what way and for what purposes has the vehicle been moddified. -You cannot make anything by yourself. An approved workshop has to make a certificate indicating how all the work has been done and saying that vehicle´s safety has not been altered. -You could be asked for strength test if you modify some items, such as seat belt or seat anchoring points. -MoT station will read and study all paperwork. If it´s everything OK the car will be tested and all the moddifications added to it´s logbook. If you have a friend owning an approved workshop you could make the work at home and he will make the paperwork. Not 100% legal but a way of taking costs down. A friend´s disco and his Disco´s logbook

But that will need some kind of lubrication.

Bill, a friend of mine suggested the belt/chain arrangement for a 6x6, but I simply thought that a pair of belts will not be man enough for the job, but if you have seen it working, then it could be a way to follow. Simple, cheap and effective: just what I want! This belt will not have problems when fording

Spacers MUST be off aproved builder and be homologated ones. Forget about making then at home with a lathe. They must also be studded and for all terrain vehicle max. width gain per axle is 130mm. About chassis space, yes, it´s tight. At best two T.cases using x-brake and centered engine, but certainly not 3...

Steerable rearmost axle. Nice...

Yes, I imagined that 3 t-cases would´t fit. I´m thinking about making it a double-cab ute with RRC roof. Spanish regulations say that any lift needs a wheel track increase for maintaining roll over stability. As RRC is nearly 15cm lower (just by roofs design) I will be able to lift body/engine/springs without the need of super-wide axles. An engineering company I contacted said that with 60mm spacers + Wolf rims (+20mm track) I will be able to lift the car for about 150mm. This is not a Landy, but is similar to the thing I will like: a not too long double-cab pick-uk. It only lacks of under seat axle or tracks...

This combo is MMA , Plasma and TIG (for indoor use, of course). http://www.ebay.es/itm/170867160148?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649 BTW. if used in-field you should use something that will work fine with a generator.

Just have a look on eBay. For in field repairs will be better MMA or FCAW, as they don´t use gas and won´t be affected by wind.

Thanks for the advice!

Landy-Novice, with that arrangement axle 4 will be rotating 1:1 in relation to main gearbox, while axles 1 and 3 will be rotating 1.22 or 3.32, depending on transfer gear lever position. Axle 2 will have no drive. That could be done with a LT95 6x6, like in Perenties and 101s with powered trailers, but axle 2 will remain without drive. BTW I have discovered that my "half track" idea is nothing new. It has been used, at least, since 1927...

Yes, I heard that this angles tend to lots of vibrations. This is the case of using centered rear diff from Patrol/GU/GQ with offset LT230. Maybe the LT230 beeing feeded directly from the gearbox could be turned clockwise for centered output and straight propshafts, but who knows if this will lead to lubrification problems.

That extra LT230 will be cheaper than four CWP sets to lower gearing for 9.00R16, with the benefit of "underdrive" effect. Another t-case with centered rear output could be used instead of LT230, but japanesse ones seem to be 1:1 high and G-wagen 1:1 or ovedrive (IIRC 0.85:1). I really don´t know why I did not thought before in mid-mounted LT230 feeding the two others. This could save the engine relocation, but maybe front axle´s propshaft will be too short.

BTW 1st LOW-LOW ratio will be 212 to 1.

Bill, I allways use Google. I have made a teorical layout (I have not measured Disco´s chassis yet to see if three LT230´s and two added axles will fit).

I consider myself as a kind of redneck and a rat-look lover. This Praga is not the walking beam type, but has good ariculation

Unfortunately I have been unable to discover boomerang´s ratio. Only thing I know is that boomerang was a ENGESA own design wich was widely used in it´s product range, including EE-9 and EE-11 armoured vehicles and was also used by brazilian army in Mecedes Benz L1519 trucks. A part´s catalogue or pics from an overhaul will at least show us if there is really some planetary reduction device in it. This is the only overhaul pic I have found

I will investigate about boomerang... Meanwile a video of more boomerang action

This is also interesting (wait until 1min 15sec for the most interesting part) It´s the brazilian ENGESA Boomerang arrangement mentioned by Bill

That Krupp has been an inspiration, so, back to the drawing table and a bit more of photoshop This way I will solve all problems related to under-seat axle trailing arms and suspension (it will have no susp. and will be located by securing it directly to chassis with "U" bolts). Rearmost axle will be a "Wolf" type one and have a propper boggie made with a pair of Rover stub axles and Santana parabolic springs from a 109". 8x8 layout will be the same as Esarco. Fully chopped ends and reworked bumpers will shorten vehicle in nearly the same amount that the rearmost axle added length, so will be no longer than a standard Disco, with the added benefit of extra loadspace. Only problem with this design is turning circle. In theory it will behave like a 120" one (assuming a 100+40" wheelbase). Vehicle´s gross weight will be something to consider. Does anyone know how much an axle weights ? And a LT230? Anyone experienced fiddle brakes WITH Torsen/ATB type diffs?