Advice for a newbie please

[Howling Mad Murdock]

Hi guys

In the next few months I will be starting a new job in a beautiful rural village but in winter it's a tough place to get to when the weather comes in hence my trusty old 206 will be making way for a 4x4. Trust me, a 4x4 is needed up there late at night and early mornings. 

Having talked to a few friends who are mechanics they say the Freelander diesel is a good buy (bearing in mind I'll be doing about 50 miles a day round trip to work). 

I also have a very large dog so the 4 door version seems to have ample space for him with a dog grille installed. Any views on that?

Fuel economy is reasonably important as I travel from Northumberland to Yorkshire at least once a month to visit family. Any info on real world mpg as opposed to online stats?

I appreciate every vehicle has it's weak points. Anything specifically to look for on the Freelander diesel models?

I will be looking for something around the 2004 year to start with then upgrade a year or so later. 

My other half is more bothered about comfort and being only 4ft 10in she worries about getting in and out of the vehicle (her mother is even smaller and often travels with us). Are side steps really needed?

My main issues are reliability and safety in atrocious conditions. I'm told the Freelander can cope with most things thrown at it. I would like to know experiences of that.

One of the reasons I want to go with this vehicle is many years ago I was a die-caster in a foundry where we made engine blocks and heads for Land Rover. The quality standards were sky high with rigid checks so that kind of sells the brand name to me. 

Basically it's got to be a vehicle that is a great all-rounder. 

All feedback will be greatly appreciated

[Glenlivet]

In my experience (FL1 TD4), the engine/gearbox are solid, the peripherals, especially electrical, are pants. Central locking, windows/sunroof fail on most of these. My wiper linkage failed as well, along with prop shaft bearings. So far (125000 miles) the VCU and IRD are fine. Fuel consumption was around 32mpg but dropped when I fitted Insa Turbo a/t tyres. With the chunky tyres it will go most places, never had a problem when others were spinning wheels. 

 

If if you get a good one you'll be ok. If you don't, almost everything that goes wrong costs £300! 

[Tanis8472]

Ahem, 

It's a BMW engine in the years you are looking at 

[Dorsetfreelander]

I had three FL1s with no real problems up to about 80k miles when I moved them on apart from the first one being a petrol so had the inevitable head gasket go.  Remember though, that you are buying a car that's around 13 years old so expect trouble at any time.  Also you mention the size of the 4 door version, it's exactly the same as the 3 just a clever piece of design work.  You might be better off going for an early FL2, more room, quieter, more fuel efficient, etc although I think that the FL1 looks more like a proper 4x4 with the wheel on the back.

[FridgeFreezer]

My 265,000 mile 2001 TD4 experience:

 

[Howling Mad Murdock]

Thanks guys.

I'll most likely go for something that has a service history with it (I don't mind paying the few quid extra for peace of mind) and be mindful of mileage etc. 

The FL2 is an option but it would depend on price and how long it would take to raise the extra cash so it will most likely mean getting the FL1 as a first 4x4. 

The 1.8 petrol is also an option as they seem cheaper to buy than diesels but is the difference in unleaded vs diesel price really going to make much difference in running costs when it comes to mpg? 

It goes without saying I'll be insisting on 12 months MoT on whatever I buy and if it proves reliable then it'll probably get some money spent on upgrades for it next year or exchange it for a newer model then. My trusty old 206 is X-reg and just kept going through MoTs cheaply so the age of a car doesn't worry me as long as it's been looked after and I'm fortunate in having a local garage that's exceptionally good on prices. 

As for central locking and windows etc failing are they a reasonably cheap fix using parts from the likes of eBay? If I decide to keep the vehicle long term I will probably replace any known troublesome parts before they fail badly (better safe than sorry). 

From what I'm hearing so far the Freelander is a pretty solid car that does what it says on the tin. That's exactly what I need. 

[Dorsetfreelander]

The reason for the petrol versions being cheaper is that you need to budget for a head gasket repair !  It's very common on the K series engine, happened to me in 2003 on a 2 year old FL1 company car at around 40k miles.  The TD4 is basically a redesigned car after BMW took them over, not only changed the engine but they changed the rear diff ratio to reduce excess "castellation" wear on the rear tyres, They also changed the wiring loom and generally made it a much better car.  I had a 52 manual and an 04 auto and had no problems with either apart from a rear window motor failing which wasn't too difficult to change.  

Edited May 4, 2017 by Dorsetfreelander

[FridgeFreezer]

Any TD4-era Freelander (clear indicators, window buttons by handbrake) will have the same improvements regardless of engine.

I found my 1800 petrol to be a great little car, and TBH most of them running around nowadays should've had the updated cooling bits & head gasket fixed many moons ago. You certainly don't save lots with a diesel unless you do lots of miles.

I found parts (both new & used) to be very reasonable and easy to find, and repairs easy enough. Just steer clear of Britpart, and fix the known issues as soon as you can - £250 on a recon VCU saves £1000+ in exploded IRD or rear diff.

The 1800 petrol had loads of room to work on the engine etc., the TD4 is a lot harder as it's all packed in.

12 months MOT is no guarantee of anything, just means the car wasn't a death trap on the day of the test.

[Howling Mad Murdock]

Thanks guys.

So if it's a petrol model I'd be looking for receipts for head gasket work and then no further issues with that?

If there's a receipt for a VCU how long do they generally last? If no receipt then I'd have to budget for one like the usual cam belt thing etc. £250 for peace of mind isn't unreasonable. 

As for the fuel consumption I will be doing around 240 miles a week commuting to work but it's mostly rural A-roads with 60mph limits with the exception of the notorious B-road into the village which is a nightmare in winter (hence the need for a 4x4). 

And as for the improved version I'm looking at window control buttons between the seats and then it's a far better option? That makes it easier to spot looking online and saves me travelling to look at something that may not be right for me.

Brilliant feedback, thanks guys

[FridgeFreezer]

 

 

[Howling Mad Murdock]

Thanks FridgeFreezer (and everyone else)

From what I'm reading most of the common problems seem to be minor and simply age related which I would assume can be avoided by spending a few quid having said areas checked over before they become an issue at the worst time (ie windows in winter springs to mind) and simple things replaced early.

I'm curious about people disconnecting the prop. I'm sure 99% of garages wouldn't sell a vehicle with that done to it (and being two wheel drive but listed as a 4x4 would be highly illegal to say the least) but nothing would surprise me in life. I'm assuming that in daily use the Freelander has an even spread of power across the wheels (as opposed to say the old XR4x4 that had a 60/40 split between front and back axles)? As a complete newbie I would expect if the prop has been disconnected at some point for any length of time there would be a marked difference in tyre wear between front and rear axles?

Speaking of tyres what are the average costs of them? I'm looking at tyres that will be good on snow and ice on public roads (the road to the new job is very remote and rarely treated at all), if it's going to get off road use it will be on beaches and green lanes en route to secluded beaches in our area. Nothing too rugged but you wouldn't want to go there in my 206 lol.

And another issue is one point on my future daily trip does flood quite a bit. How deep can water be before it becomes an issue to the Freelander? Bearing in mind it will be standing water. 

If I like it as much as think I will it will probably become a kind of project and I'm wondering what kind of mods are realistic and which ruin the vehicle. A high lift kit would look nice along with side steps etc but what does that do to handling? Power upgrades, are they a recipe for unreliability? I've seen the fascias etc for aftermarket stereos (my JVC will be going in) but are there any which are pretty cool/different?

And it may sound a strange question but are there any hooks etc in the boot to attach a ramp to? My neighbour had a two piece dog ramp that just hooks on and the dog walks up it easily. My boy isn't getting any younger and I don't fancy having to lift a dog over 60kg into the back of a 4x4.

Rear seats. How flat do they fold? Flush to the floor at boot level? That would be a bonus if I need to transfer stock between the two shops (ie crates of beer etc).

Wiring seems to be an issue from what I've read. For extra lights (bearing in mind the roads I'll be using are totally unlit) would LED low power drain lights be better in terms of putting less strain on the systems or can the Freelander cope with anything like that?

Sorry if I seem a bit of a pain asking so many questions guys but when you get a golden opportunity at life-changing money but need to work on a budget in the early days it's not an easy place to be and you want to get things right from all angles

  

 

[FridgeFreezer]

A few quick answers:

- The VCU is the big one to check, and if in ANY doubt just budget £300 for a recon one + two new support bearings. The job is easy to do with basic tools.

- Many people disconnected props, there's blanking kits all over eBay so I assume there must be 100's out there with no prop and potentially no output flange left on the IRD to re-fit one. Garages would be that dodgy, but also many would just not know or notice.

- The FL has different gearing front to back so the front wheels try to go faster than the back by a very small amount, which makes it feel more like a front-wheel-drive car most of the time. The VCU in the rear propshaft allows some "slip" so the difference is taken out in normal driving. If one end start to slip a lot, it locks up and gives you full 4WD. In early ones the ratio was too high and it caused issues, with the TD4 era they made the difference smaller with a changed rear diff ratio. You can retro-fit that rear diff to an older vehicle.

- I Paid about £90 a tyre for General Grabber AT2's which lasted 30k+ (I sold the vehicle at that point and they had loads left). AT2 are all-terrain, and it went off-road very well with those, keeping up with Defenders etc. on mud tyres.

- General rule is up to the wheel hubs, you can "splash" headlight deep briefly but for a longer run you're risking sucking in water. Fit or make a snorkel (B&Q drainpipe for the win) if you need deep wading.

- The older L-series diesel tunes up well, the TD4 I'm not sure it's worth it, but an EGR delete kit is. The 1800 petrol can be made into a screamer (it was in the Lotus Elise & Caterhams after all), try www.dvapower.co.uk  he's the man for K-series.

- Boot hooks, yes there are. Rear seats go right up against the backs of the front seats, giving you a big flat floor area.

- Wiring is only an issue when done by the average Land Rover owner who regards it as white man's magick and fuses as a decadent and unnecessary option. The FL will run anything you want if you wire it properly.

- Stereo, meh, knock yourself out, it's got a DIN slot so most stuff fits. I fitted an Eonon single-DIN folod-out touchscreen thing - DVD, USB, GPS/Sat nav, would play anything and cost less than a TomTom:

 

Oh and if you buy a TD4, try to get one with the Webasto fuel-burning heater, otherwise you'll be chilly for the 1st 20 miles every morning!

[Glenlivet]

Insa Turbo Rangers cost £50 each, nice tyres but a bugger to balance and cost around 40 miles per tankful in fuel consumption. Great in the slippy stuff  

 

Be aware that a removed prop shaft will likely affect insurance as a modified vehicle. 

[Howling Mad Murdock]

Thanks again guys

If the VCU and support bearings are an easy enough job how long would that take a good mechanic? 

AT2 tyres lasting over 30k with loads of tread left is pretty much a good deal when you think about it. You obviously get what you pay for with them. 

As for the disconnected propshaft I wouldn't be impressed if I found that. If a garage doesn't have a lift to check the drive to all 4 wheels is there a sure way to check on a test drive?

FridgeFreezer, if water is more than hub deep on my way home from work at the new job I'm going the long way around lmao. I'm not getting stuck in the middle of nowhere in winter for nobody

Many of the old K-series 1.8 blocks were made at VAW Motorcast in Leeds, the newer foundry they set up. The V8's and Storm blocks were made in central Leeds at their original foundry. I didn't realise it was the old K-series in the 1.8. Kind of gives me a wry smile. 

When it comes to wiring I'm wary having been with Peugeot for several years. I've not had any electrical issues but when it comes to the Haynes manual vs reality on wire colours it's a lottery. 

FridgeFreezer did you use standard rims with AT2s? And being all terrain tyres do they alter the height of the vehicle?

A fuel burning heater reminds me of the old trucks and tanks. I haven't heard that in a long time but Webasto had a good name back in my youth when I first bought cars. Not that I bought many, I usually ended up with a company van for many years hence little mechanical knowledge, just give it to the garage and the company pays. 

The idea of the 1.8 being a proper "screamer" does appeal to me as I used to the work the local petrol station and have a real hatred of the "clapped out Corsa with loud exhaust and black wheels" brigade. I may be 49 but hey crank up the Motorhead and slaughter them from the lights and it is very funny

FridgeFreezer thank you for explaining what the VCU actually does. It clarifies to me how the drivetrain kind of works, seems pretty much like day to day it feels like a normal car but when it hits the fan it gets you out of trouble. 

Thanks to you guys I'm now sold on getting a Freelander and spoilt for choice on models

 

[FridgeFreezer]

I'd buy the VCU from Bell Engineering with new bearings already pressed on if I could. That said, it's an easy enough task: pull two bearings off, press two new ones on. You don't even need to remove the propshaft - just loosen the retaining bolt (UJ-to-VCU) each end, slide out the U-shaped retainer and if you're lucky the UJ will slide off the end of the VCU (the retaining bolt fits inside the UJ splines, very handy!). Then undo 4x bolts to drop the VCU with its bearings/carriers. Refitting is the reverse, blah blah...

VCU is hard to describe, I could tell you within seconds of pulling away if a FL has no rear prop or a seized VCU but it's hard to describe, especially if you're not driven anything with proper 4x4 before. You can just look underneath though, it's not THAT low the ground!

Best I can describe is that if it drives exactly like a FWD car, there's no prop fitted. If it drives like a Disco1/RRC/Defender that's been left with difflock engaged, the VCU is seized. Pulling away like a hooligan, where you'd spin the front tyres in a FWD car, the FL will give a very brief chirp and then you'll just set off as all 4 grip. If it's seized, parallel parking or reversing round a corner will feel like the brakes are binding badly, sometimes with groans from the bushes for good measure.

White bit is VCU, green bits are bearings.

 

For all things LR you need the RAVE manuals (the genuine dealership ones) which are widely available with a very little searching, I believe there's a link in the technical archive section too. They explain everything (including how the 4WD / ETC / HDC works), and the electrical section even includes a photo of every single connector on the car.

I used standard rims with AT2's because they were standard size tyres, just a more all-terrain tread. You can go bigger, you can lift it, but they go a long long way as standard.

 

Webasto was only on certain years of TD4, the little silver exhaust pipe by the passenger front wheel is the giveaway: