Road legal when outside of the UK more than one year

[Paul64]

Thanks cipx2

Are you in RO? Do you drive a LR there?

Good information, thanks. I take it these rules have changed with RO joining the EU.

My LR is registered in Germany at the moment, so light conversion already completed. Not heard about the mirror before, but makes sense, although I don't tend to do much in the way of overtaking.

I can only imagine a 6-7000 euro importation tax is to protect Dacia sales.

Contact with your friend at DVLA equivalent would be very useful when I arrive in RO April.

Cheers,

Paul

[cipx2]

Yes, I'm from an in RO . I have a '98 300tdi Disco.

The tax was introduced to restrict the importation of old vehicles with high emissions. It was introduced last January (just checked) to prevent what happened in Poland for example: in the first 2 years after Poland joined the EU, there were 2 million vehicles registered from which 70% were more than 10 years old.

No tax (or close to nothing) if the vehicle is a EURO4 or EURO5 for example. It doesn't matter where the vehicle was made (RO or other EU country) the tax at 1st RO registration is the same (if it was made outside of EU, there is a 10% import tax + VAT for the whole value).

There's an online calculator on the Ministry of Finance site (equivalent of the HM Treasury and part of HMRC in UK): http://www.mfinante.ro/taxa_auto.html

There's a site that says it has the new values for the tax (I) and you can compare them with the current ones (II - further down the page) - if you need help with translation, let me know, but I think you can manage: http://www.automobiletv.ro/specialTaxes.php but I wouldn't bet my money on what they say there.

I just read some late December news and there are rumors that this tax could come into effect late January. Will keep you posted, it will be on every news channel so I will know as soon as it happens.

Ok. I just had a chat with the guy working for RAR (Registrul Auto Roman = Romanian Auto Registry) - the equivalent of DVLA - http://www.rarom.ro (no english version I'm afraid) and he said it won't be much of a problem the register a RHD. The mirror thingy is not a requirement no more. I'll have to call him at the office next week to find out all the details. I'll get back to you on this as well.

[Paul64]

Yes, I'm from an in RO . I have a '98 300tdi Disco.

The tax was introduced to restrict the importation of old vehicles with high emissions. It was introduced last January (just checked) to prevent what happened in Poland for example: in the first 2 years after Poland joined the EU, there were 2 million vehicles registered from which 70% were more than 10 years old.

No tax (or close to nothing) if the vehicle is a EURO4 or EURO5 for example. It doesn't matter where the vehicle was made (RO or other EU country) the tax at 1st RO registration is the same (if it was made outside of EU, there is a 10% import tax + VAT for the whole value).

There's an online calculator on the Ministry of Finance site (equivalent of the HM Treasury and part of HMRC in UK): http://www.mfinante.ro/taxa_auto.html

There's a site that says it has the new values for the tax (I) and you can compare them with the current ones (II - further down the page) - if you need help with translation, let me know, but I think you can manage: http://www.automobiletv.ro/specialTaxes.php but I wouldn't bet my money on what they say there.

I just read some late December news and there are rumors that this tax could come into effect late January. Will keep you posted, it will be on every news channel so I will know as soon as it happens.

Ok. I just had a chat with the guy working for RAR (Registrul Auto Roman = Romanian Auto Registry) - the equivalent of DVLA - http://www.rarom.ro (no english version I'm afraid) and he said it won't be much of a problem the register a RHD. The mirror thingy is not a requirement no more. I'll have to call him at the office next week to find out all the details. I'll get back to you on this as well.

Fantastic info, thanks. It has been a real struggle to get good accurate local information, so finding you is a big plus! PM me if you would prefer, but where in RO are you located? Where do you buy parts for for your LR? Do you work on your vehicle yourself or do you use someone else? Do you know of any LR specialists that are not dealerships in RO? Are there any good RO LR groups?

I had a look at the websites you enclosed in the above post. What Euro number category would my LR be? It is a 1994 Defender county station wagon 110, with a 200TDI engine.

Thanks again for all your help!

Cheers, Paul

[cipx2]

A 1994 200Tdi Defender should fall in the EURO 1 emission class.

If your german licence is the new kind one (Zulassungsbescheinigung - issued after October 2005) then you can find this info at pos #14. Here's an example where the vehicle meets EURO 4 emission class: Zulassungsbescheinigung example

If you have the the old kind (Fahrzeugschein) then you should check the other documents you might have (TUV/Dekra MOTs ...) maybe it is written somewhere.

[Paul64]

A 1994 200Tdi Defender should fall in the EURO 1 emission class.

If your german licence is the new kind one (Zulassungsbescheinigung - issued after October 2005) then you can find this info at pos #14. Here's an example where the vehicle meets EURO 4 emission class: Zulassungsbescheinigung example

If you have the the old kind (Fahrzeugschein) then you should check the other documents you might have (TUV/Dekra MOTs ...) maybe it is written somewhere.

Thanks cipx2 for this information. I will send you a PM later.

Cheers, Paul

[cipx2]

Just spoked to the guy at RAR: No problems registring a RHD in RO no more and no other (extra) requirement than LHD type headlights!

[dollythelw]

why not just flick it over to LHD?

[Paul64]

why not just flick it over to LHD?

Flick it over? If you are talking about a conversion, what would be the point if they accept RHD? I have had RHD in Germany for the past 9 years. Not a problem as I rarely overtake in my Defender. It was a little bit more complicated in the faster cars that I've had though!

[dollythelw]

yes.... conversion, its not pricey and doesnt take a lot of time to do. I build all my cars these days LHD even though they are registered in the UK, it makes junctions a lot safer, overtaking (even a landy has to overtake stuff stationary trucks/broken down big things/flat our Zastavas) ceases to be a lottery, personally I think if the vehicle spends more time over there than over here your nuts for not doing it

[Paul64]

yes.... conversion, its not pricey and doesnt take a lot of time to do. I build all my cars these days LHD even though they are registered in the UK, it makes junctions a lot safer, overtaking (even a landy has to overtake stuff stationary trucks/broken down big things/flat our Zastavas) ceases to be a lottery, personally I think if the vehicle spends more time over there than over here your nuts for not doing it

How much do you charge for a conversion?

[bobtail4x4]

A mate of mine lives half the year in Croatia, (not yet in the EU) he drives into italy MOT s the car and keeps legal that way, its not registered as being in croatia, he has to leave every few months for some legality, he nips over the border to do some shopping or fill up and keeps the till receipts in the car.

[Paul64]

A mate of mine lives half the year in Croatia, (not yet in the EU) he drives into italy MOT s the car and keeps legal that way, its not registered as being in croatia, he has to leave every few months for some legality, he nips over the border to do some shopping or fill up and keeps the till receipts in the car.

Thanks, but my vehicle is key to my business in Transylvania, I will be resident there all year round so all has to be official and above board.

[dollythelw]

pass - Ive never done it for anyone else and wouldnt know what to charge to do it, its a simple kit of parts, should take you no more than a busy afternoon with hand tools, a pair of axle stands, 10 fags, half a pack of biscuits and 3 cups of coffee - its not a tricky one to do.

[D9OSV]

I think you are touch under estimating this one Jez.

Do not forget that Defender bulkheads are handied, as are the steering boxs, steering box pipes, Pandard rod fixings, Dash board facias etc............

Not quite the ten minute job it used to be in Series motor

Maybe 20 fags and a whole pack of bisciuts for this one

Jim

[dollythelw]

my afternoons are longer

I'll split the odds and say 3/4 pack of biscuits and 15 fags

[Scotian]

Hi guys. I've read through this post and unless I missed somthing there wasnt really a conclution. I'm in Romania now and my insurance company (Adrian Flux just said they wont renew my police becuase the car isnt "normally kept in then UK" I called a few others and they said the same..

There must be some way to stay legal. and more to the point, I want to be legal for when I go to the UK next.

Is there anyone who knows the soloution (I'm happy to register the car here in Romania (even for the crazy price of tax) On the tax note. does anyone know what euro number the 200tdi is? If its a Euro 1 then the tax is a bit less Only about 2100 euro instead of 3000

[Paul64]

Hi guys. I've read through this post and unless I missed somthing there wasnt really a conclution. I'm in Romania now and my insurance company (Adrian Flux just said they wont renew my police becuase the car isnt "normally kept in then UK" I called a few others and they said the same..

There must be some way to stay legal. and more to the point, I want to be legal for when I go to the UK next.

Is there anyone who knows the soloution (I'm happy to register the car here in Romania (even for the crazy price of tax) On the tax note. does anyone know what euro number the 200tdi is? If its a Euro 1 then the tax is a bit less Only about 2100 euro instead of 3000

I can see Cip is responding to your questions and he really is the authority on this subject. Just out of interest where are you in RO and how long have you been over? Are you touring?

Cheers,

Paul

[cipx2]

The conclusion was the fact that your major problem would be the MOT, not the insurance. Since in UK (or any other country) you can't do MOT without the vehicle being present, the only option is to drive the vehicle back to UK (or the country is registered in).

If you'll find a way to solve the MOT, I will tell you what to do about insurance.

On the tax note, the values aren't right. The tax is about to change from July 1st but this isn't official yet. Anyway, here is an online calculator for both values (before and after July 1st): http://www.drive-test.ro/?a=calculator_taxa_inmatriculare

Your vehicle is sort of a hybrid, old vehicle with a different engine. The 200tdi Discos were both Non-Euro and Euro1. Although it was the same engine, the Euro1 came into effect in 1993. I really don't know if your vehicle will be admitted as a Euro1.

You can address a request to the local RAR (6-8 quid) and see what they answer (here's the pdf).

Paul, see here: http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=22528

By the way Marcus, welcome to the forum (from a local user - but, as been said there, sometimes the work for a living takes you far away from the computer/home or for long periods of time).

[Scotian]

Thanks for the advice. I'm going to get onto a friend in the UK and see about the MOT thing. I will be going back to the UK once a year but I dont know if it will coincide with MOTs. I guess I could just get an MOT every time I'm there even if its not due..

Cheers and I think I will be seeing Paul in person in the very near future.. See you in PM..

[cipx2]

If you're planning to stay in RO for more than 2-3 years, I think it's better to register the vehicle here.

To keep the vehicle road legal it will cost you (apart the initial tax and fees: £1582 from July 1st + £150-250 reg. papers ):

- £80/year ownership tax

- £60-150/year compulsory insurance (includes green card) + optional insurance, if you want (covers your losses when it's your fault, theft, vandalism, fire, ...)

- £20/year road tax

- £50 every 2 years for the MOT

So the yearly cost to keep the vehicle (2.5 l engine) road legal here has a minimum of £185 (this is what I pay). You could probably do £225-250.

I don't know how much it costs you to keep it registered & insured in UK but you can do the math and find out how many years you need to keep the vehicle registered in RO for the initial tax to get payed off.

[Scotian]

Well in the UK (becuase of my convictions from when I owned a really fast car) my insurance is about 600 pounds a year, Road tax is something crazy like 204 a year and the MOT is costing me 50/60 a year (guaranteed pass :-))

Not to mention the cost of driving back to the UK to get it MOTed if I didnt fit with a planned trip.

So thats 864 pounds a year running cost with it registerd in the UK which means the initial registration costs would pay for them selves in just over 2 years in romania and if you include the running costs too it will pay for its self in a little short of 3 years. Hmmm. interesting. is it worth it? If I could some how get MOT by post from a certain person I know maybe it is worth keeping it registerd in the UK. Still got an insurance problem then though since companies wont insure people who arent staying in the UK :-(

[cipx2]

I just checked with local insurance companies and, unfortunately, since some months ago you cannot insure the vehicle here if registered in UK. This is true for all EU countries. The vehicle must be insured in the country of registration.

On the other hand, in all EU countries the law says that if you're resident in that country (or if you stay there for more than 3-6 months) you need to register the vehicle there, sometimes even get the local driver's license/permit.

One thing I don't understand: why your insurance company said that they cannot insure a UK registered vehicle?

[Scotian]

I was being honest with them and said that I work in Iraq and spend most of my time off in Romania. So that puts me in the UK very little (becuase I dont work in the UK) and they just point blank said that if I am not UK resident (even though I ahve a million and 1 official documents (banks, credit cards etc) registerd to a UK address they wont insure me. And becuase its been said on the phone now they cant got back and she "must make a record of it" and have the policy stopped immediatly. So that was me left high and dry :-(

[cipx2]

Geee, you were a bit too honest ...

Tell them that you changed your mind, you'll leave the vehicle in UK but you want to keep it insured and ready to go whenever you go back to UK. Or go to another company.

I remembered there's a place where you can read of similar problems in other EU countries. Here's a link to the latest thread: http://britishexpats.com/forum/showthread.php?t=510236

[GBMUD]

Just to make me fell unwell, how much is diesel in Romania guys?

Thanks

Chris