sotal Posted March 22, 2008 Share Posted March 22, 2008 Having still not completely fixed my starting problems - I have given in and accepted that it might be down to the starter motor, I rang the local general parts place and they do exchange units for £80 but they needed to know the number off the old one. I found the instructions in the tech archive: http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopi...l=starter+motor (thanks Les) and started, removed the pipes etc, and got access to the starter motor, I then removed it but there where a couple of differences so I just wanted to check to see if any of the differences could be causing a problem. The Starter Motor is a Bosch unit, firstly there was only two bolts holding the starter motor in place (the top one closest to the drivers side and the bottom one), the upper passenger side one was missing, I presume that is the 15mm one? As both the others where 13mm. The next thing I noticed was that there was no earth going to the starter as described in the instructions. There is an Earth which goes from the chassis to the engine, but it connects on another bolt further down below the starter motor. Is that OK or should there be another? Would it help to add another earth from the chassis to one of the bolts on the starter. On the back of the starter motor there is two nuts, one has a cm or so of thread sticking out, with a smallish nut on it probably 10mm - would it be wise to run another earth to here to improve things further - or is that a waste of time? Finally can anything be done with the starter motor? I was going to check the bushes but couldn't work out how to get to them, on the back of the unit there is a cover held in place by two philips screws, removing these reveals the end of the shaft, with a 'C' shaped washer and a couple of other washers, removing these doesn't seem to do much just lets the shaft move back and forth a little bit. Other than that there is 4 (I think it's 4) Huge big philips screws/bolts around the body of the motor. Oh and is it Ok to leave the starter motor off with the hole open? Looking in I noticed the big cog that the starter turns has a bit of surface rust on it anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted March 22, 2008 Share Posted March 22, 2008 As long as the earth is nearby and the connection is in good condition, then it doesn't matter if it's not on one of the starter bolts. Is just the 15mm nut missing, or the stud is screws onto as well? You can use an M10 bolt in it's place (make sure you have enough room to do it up though (a socket will fit on it)) You can leave the hole open - and a bit of rust on the back of the flywheel is normal (the big Cog you mention is the flywheel and ring gear). Don't reconnect the battery though - the thickest wire to the starter comes straight from it and there will be an almighty bang/sparks/smoke/fire if the cable touches earth. No need to add another earth as long as the present one is ok. Starters can be stripped, but getting parts for them is very difficult, attaching them requires high-temperature soldering, and keeping the brushes retained in their housing while you re-fit the plate is also very awkward. Starter motors can be rebuilt, and a lot of the time it's the cheapest option. If you opt for an exchange unit - be careful what make it is. Exchanging a Bosch starter for a rebuilt Prestolite one is a bad move. Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotal Posted March 22, 2008 Author Share Posted March 22, 2008 Thanks Les, There is just a hole at the top so I presume the stud is missing? The top one closest to the drives side was a 13mm bolt which appeared to go into a threaded part (ie no nut) the bottom one was a 13mm bolt with a nut on the other side so I presumed it was just a 15mm bolt and nut missing? I'll just replace that with the closest match I can find in the garage. The Earth looked good, just a bit far away - I'll probably remove it and put it back just to clean up the contacts a bit. Is copper grease good to smear on to help the connection or is it more likely to hinder it? I'll see if I can find any starter motor reconditioning places in the yellow pages - if that's cheaper than 80 quid then I'll do that. I did ask what make the recons where but they said they couldn't guarantee it would be anything in particular - I'd just get what they had. I suppose I could just refuse a Prestolite. So you think my Bosch Motor reconditioned would be better than a new prestolite? Is there any way to bench test the starter? Or any tests to do on it to check for wear? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 Having still not completely fixed my starting problems - I have given in and accepted that it might be down to the starter motor, Hallelujah! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotal Posted March 23, 2008 Author Share Posted March 23, 2008 Hallelujah! I will be disgruntled if it doesn't sort it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotal Posted March 25, 2008 Author Share Posted March 25, 2008 The choice is: Have my Bosch starter reconditioned for £40-£55 cash depending on what needs doing or... Buy a brand new Iskra Starter motor for £67 inc VAT and sell the bosch one on ebay for £50 What would you do...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeagent Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 get the Bosch one rebuilt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotal Posted March 25, 2008 Author Share Posted March 25, 2008 That was winning in my head! I'll think I'll pop off and drop it off, can pick it up tomorrow then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeagent Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 just make sure they are doing a full strip an inspect, not just replacing the part that obviously failed. for an extra couple of quid it might be worth new bearings etc, if they haven't already included for it.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotal Posted March 25, 2008 Author Share Posted March 25, 2008 Just dropped it off, he stuck it in a test bed and reported that it was fine I told him the problems and how the FIP seems sensitive to the voltage drop and he's going to strip it down for me to see if there is anything that can be done to make it 100% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotal Posted March 27, 2008 Author Share Posted March 27, 2008 Picked the starter up, he's re-conditioned it but he was honest and said it didn't really need it, he said the only part which showed any wear was the com bush. The motor passed all his test once he had recond it, but he was honest and said he did the tests before as well and it passed them all then as well. So I'm going back to not being sure it was the starter motor I'll put it back on at the weekend and see what happens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebiglad Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 Picked the starter up, he's re-conditioned it but he was honest and said it didn't really need it, he said the only part which showed any wear was the com bush.The motor passed all his test once he had recond it, but he was honest and said he did the tests before as well and it passed them all then as well. So I'm going back to not being sure it was the starter motor I'll put it back on at the weekend and see what happens When you re-install it, do a REALLY good job on the earth. There is soooh much juice going through it needs to be spot-on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotal Posted March 27, 2008 Author Share Posted March 27, 2008 As Described above the Earth doesn't go to the starter it goes to the bit below. I am going to remove all Earths and redo them just to make sure, I don't think it's down to the earth though as I had a heavy duty lorry jump lead going from the battery negative to the starter and it didn't make any difference Thanks for the suggestion though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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