slipping clutch?

[Scotian]

Hi all. I know the normal sign of a slipping clutch but is it possible I've got oil on my clutch/fly wheel?

The problem is as posted before but there is some more news. It only happens in first gear and reverse but I did lots of tests and here is what happens. As soon as the clutch is fully engaged (foot off the pedal) the juddering stops. Also if I rev the engine more than you would normally on a slow manouver when the clutch is half depressed it stopps the judder.

There is a fair bit of oil dripping from the seals near the drain plug on the fly wheel housing (nothing much comming out of the drain plug. One of the drips looks like just normal dirty oil, the other is more like a very fine paste. It is oil with somthing in it and looks grey.

Does this shed any light on the proble with a violent judder when I have the clutch half doing slow manouvers?

In the pic.. You cant see it becuase I went and touched it before I took the pic.. but.. from the seal to the right of the drain plug (the bell housing) it is leaking a grey pasty oil and from the seal to the left of the drain plug its leaking healthy looking black oil.

Is it possible that the oil seal on the crank shaft is leaking and letting oil to get on the clutch causing this bad judder (slipping)?

[steve_a]

Three possible leak sources in there:

o Crank seal with engine oil

o Dot 3 from slave cylinder

o ATF from gearbox on input shaft or nose cone seals

So identify which oil and this will tell you what job you have to do. You can't go by color as it all ends up looking cak, but smell is what you need. Another option is to get a bit and put a standard rubber glove in it (the thin cheap ones) and see if it goes kind of funny, which will mean it is ATF (AFAIK the other options don't do that).

Judder does sound like oil on the plate, which would be engine or gearbox oil, with engine being the most likely. If it isn't slipping and you can live with it then you could just leave it until the clutch starts slipping or you need to do it because of reliability issues (long trip etc) and then they will both involve moving the gearbox way back and probably changing the plate.

Crank seal is easy to do and we probably have a tech archive on it.

The gearbox I have done and I don't know how successful it is in truth, if it starts leaking it could be because the bearing on the input shaft is starting to suffer and the shaft has extra play and hence leaks.

It could be a badly worn or missing spigot bush causing that to leak too....

does that help?

[Scotian]

That helps alot thanks. It confrims my own thoughts enough for me to pull the gear box and engine apart and have a good look in there. The gear box is old and needing changing anyway so id it turns out to be the input shaft I wont bother as the gear box will come out in the not too distant future. By the way.. the problem with the gear box is is grinds trying to get it into any gear and jumps out of gear from time to time too... when in low range going down steep hills engine breaking.

If it is oil from the crank seal.. will cleaning the fly wheel and clutch plate with break cleaner be a worth while quick fix till I get round to changing the gear box(and the crank seal while its off) or am I swearing in the wind?

[steve_a]

Does sound like the box is maybe the bad side of the wear curve

have you tried changing the oil and filter on the gearbox, my old disco was horrible on getting into second on the downshift but new oil and filter and it made a world of difference.

I think the brake cleaner will get you some life back, the oil contaminated plate I threw away still had loads of meat and it was mainly when it got hotter that it started slipping.

It started slipping in 4th at full throttle, and took about 3 months to move to slipping in 3rd at full throttle, but it did seem to start getting worse quicker.

[Les Henson]

Oil leaking from the crank seal rarely gets onto the clutch itself (it runs down behind the flywheel and out the wading plug hole). It has to pretty bad to get on the clutch (it gets flung up onto the inside of the bellhousing and then drips down onto the clutch). Oil may well come out to the right (forward) of the wading plug hole, but is likely to be coming from the same place. Judder could be oil on the clutch plate or an imbalaced clutch cover - either way, you need a new clutch. Another possibility is the spigot bearing, which causes the input shaft to oscillate - thereby juddering. Still a new clutch, but also the spigot bearing).

There are two 'input shafts' on the gearbox - the one that the clutch runs on, and the one that transmits drive to the transfer case - that latter causing a clunk whenever drive is taken up - particularly when pulling away in 1st or reverse.

If the gearbox input shaft is leaking, then the oil will be red (eventually), but with the gearbox off, you will easily see if it's that as there will be a clean track leading inside the bellhousing to the base of the input shaft.

Les.

[Scotian]

If it is any of these many possible problems.. is it safe to keep driving it with the judder (only on first and reverse) or will it mess up other things and cuase me more cost?

[Les Henson]

It can put high spots on the flywheel face or even create areas of micro-cracking. The flywheel may need skimming anyway if it's been juddering for a while.

Les.