Jaroslav Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 Hi everybody! Could anybody please explain it to me why the heck there are rubber cups on the wheel hubs of my 110? I can't think of any possible use for them: sure you can remove it without a tool, but then what? You'd need to take out the flange if you wanted to replace a half shaft anyway, so what's the point? Another mystery is this: what happens when the rear axle becomes tilted? Let's say 30 degrees. Will the oil that is contained in the differential reach the hub cap? None of the pictures of the rear differential I have would show any kind of washer that would keep the oil in the middle part of the diff. I've just replaced the half shafts. I put a liberal amount of grease on the splines of outer side of the shaft, but didn't put anything on the splines of the inner side, assuming that it's splashed with the gear oil anyway. But now I'm thinking that maybe the gear oil doesn't get there and I should have greased it as well? /Jaroslav Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pist0nbr0ke Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 Jaroslav, I woke one morning to find i had grease splash around the outside of the offside wheel. It turned out that when i stripped the unit down and taken the hub off, there was a seal on the rear which is enclosed by a phozy bronze bush. This bush i imagine keeps the half shaft in a central position. grease had got past that ang travel along the half shaft and out the front throught the rubber cap! I think it is this seal that stops diff oil going into the hub but also hub grease going into the diff. cheers Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimAttrill Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 1) Series vehicles did not have seals to stop oil making its way from the diffs along the half shafts to the wheel bearings 2) Defenders do have such a seal, though removing and replacing the half shafts tends to stuff it up 3) Better to have oil in the wheel bearings because they will last longer 4) The hub cap stops the oil working its way out past the splines. Many people remove the inner seal or destroy it from the outside to get oil to the bearings. You must then make sure that the hub seal is in good condition or you will get oil on the brakes. My 110 developed the nasty habit of pushing off the left hand hub cap which let oil out all over the wheel. I tried all sorts of things and eventually had my half shafts and drive members TIG welded. End of problem. If you look at the design, it is quite strange in that there is a circlip to stop the shaft moving inwards, but nothing at all to stop it moving outwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmgemini Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 Land Rover for some reason decided they wanted oil seals on the halfshafts near to the end of the axle tube. This effectively stops the diff oil migrating to the hub bearings as Land Rover want the bearings lubricated with grease not oil. At the same time, I suspect for cost reasons, the fitted the two piece halfshaft. Now I damage those end seals to let the oil run along the halfshaft because although I take my hubs off every 6,000miles I also want those splines lubricated. If those splines are not lubricated then they rust and fret, eventually the splines on the flange fail leaving you with no drive. Each service I fill those rubber/plastic caps with gear oil. hopefully that will lubricate the splines. Well I haven't done many miles in the five years I've had my Defender.. Only 70,000, so far I'm still using the same flanges. Try leaving those rubber/plastic caps off. Let the diust and dirt get into the splines, then see how long they last...... I see no point in welding the flanges to the halfshaft. It will cause a weak point at the heat affected zone. The flange is the fail safe, or supposed to be for the rear axle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacFamilyAus Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 This is why here in Australia we convert our bearings to oil lubed rather then grease as was said ealier they get grit and dirt in the flanges and wear out the splins and flanges. Mine was converted to Maxidrive axles/flanges and oil lubed bearings in the rear when I bought it Iam about to do the same on the front as my flanges are worn out but I will also be converting to oil lubed bearings/cv joints no grease . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaroslav Posted October 7, 2008 Author Share Posted October 7, 2008 Land Rover for some reason decided they wanted oil seals on the halfshafts near to the end of the axle tube. I am at loss here. Mine doesn't have any oil seal. Nor does the workshop manual. Maybe we're talking about different matters? I am saying that the half-shaft is inserted inside the stub axle, which is attached to the axle flange. The oil could then travel along the shaft all the way to the end of the axle flange. It then can go (a) outside, via the splines of the driving flange and into the rubber cup (and mix with the grease); and (B) inside the driving flange and ultimately into the bearings. Looks like a strange design. Where are the oil seals? Maybe inside the stub axle? If so, it's really screwy that the the workshop manual fails to show them there. Now I damage those end seals to let the oil run along the halfshaft because although I take my hubs off every 6,000miles I also want those splines lubricated.Try leaving those rubber/plastic caps off. Let the diust and dirt get into the splines, then see how long they last...... What's wrong with using the grease on the splines? /Jaroslav Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmgemini Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 When you pull the halfshaft a couple of inches in from the flange is a raised machined bit. The oil seal sits on that..... Nothing wrong with grease. It's just that I think you'll have to take the flange off the halfshaft to grease them. No thanks every 6,000 miles.... The oil doesn't really last that long either.... mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBMUD Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 Older axles relied on oil from the differential to lubricate the bearings so there are no seals. Where seals in the stub axles exist it is my policy to damage them so that I get oil lube'd bearings. Jaroslav must have the early axle type. If there were oil seals they would be in the axle end of the stub axles and there would be a special place on the half shaft for the seal to run. Yes, tilting the axle allows oil to run to the bearings. They only need a covering though. You will need to keep an eye on the back of the brakes for oil leaks from the hub oil seals - in the hub behind the brake rotor. You answered your own question about the rubber caps. They keep in any oil which leaks out past the splines. If you remove them then you risk getting oil all over the wheels and allowing the ingress of water into the splines and bearing. HTH Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaroslav Posted October 7, 2008 Author Share Posted October 7, 2008 When you pull the halfshaft a couple of inches in from the flange is a raised machined bit. The oil seal sits on that..... There are no machined bits on my shafts; they are simple cylindrical rods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaroslav Posted October 7, 2008 Author Share Posted October 7, 2008 Yes, tilting the axle allows oil to run to the bearings. They only need a covering though. You will need to keep an eye on the back of the brakes for oil leaks from the hub oil seals - in the hub behind the brake rotor. OK, this I can connect with the picture in the WSM. You answered your own question about the rubber caps. They keep in any oil which leaks out past the splines. If you remove them then you risk getting oil all over the wheels and allowing the ingress of water into the splines and bearing. Well, we're back to my original question: why there are rubber cups in the first place, especially that they are supposed to keep the gear oil inside? Oil is much more liquid than grease and can get hot. If they are not for regular maintenance, why didn't they make them from metal and permanently attached? The rubber is just so flimsy. A tree of a stone could scrape it off. The other question is this: now that I've filled the cap and covered the splines with grease, should I go back and clean the whole thing? Thanks, /Jaroslav Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBMUD Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 why didn't they make them from metal and permanently attached? That is a question for someone else, try Phil Bashall at Dunsfold Landrovers. The other question is this: now that I've filled the cap and covered the splines with grease, should I go back and clean the whole thing? No, it will be fine. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmgemini Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 Jaroslav. I haven't worked for some years... When I did work I'd do three sometims four rear Salisbury axles. Twin wheel rears. Drum brakes. Those rears were off every six weeks to two months. Salisbury hadn't at that time, or Land Rover, the outer seals. It was very rare to changfe a rear hub oil seal. We always packed the bearings with grease. Everytime we took a hub off it was full of oil. The latest Land Rover hub seals are very good. I wouldn't expect any problems. When I bought my Defender in June 2003 with 124,000miles on it. Marc that sold it to me told me to keep those splins lubricated. A week or so later I called into another indipendant Land Rover garage. "New rear flanges, Geep them well lubricatedand you won't have a problem" I now have 197,000 miles on it.. So far the flanges have lasted. Including having to use Tank Tape on the left rear because of loosing a cap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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