More engine wows

[Scott_Argyll]

My time as a discovery owner has not been a good one, after one head gasket failer caused the engine (300TDi) to seize I had it replaced with one from ebay. The replacement seemed to be a good engine it ran really well, pulled well and had no problems with burning oil or problems with using water, at the time of having the engine fitted I also had a new timing belt fitted and as it took time to save up for the new engine it had a new battery, after the engine was fitted it then needed an MOT, with it being of the road for nearly a year I thought it would not needed much doing to it, how wrong was I? To cut a long story short it has now cost me £1500 to get it back on the road after not being able to use it for 12 months.

Our first thought was to flog it but instead decided to use it for a road trip to belgium, this went without hitch doing around 800 miles until 60 miles from home when is started to sound like an air cooled VW. we pressed on home at a slower speed. The following morning started up the engine again only to see exhust gases coming out of the bulkhead \ drivers side of the engine. I am reallyannoyed of as we have now spent more than the car is worth. Has anyone come across this, to me it sounds like head gasket but there is no sign of water loss or presurisation.

I would seriuosly appriciate any help.

[Les Henson]

Sounds like the head gasket has gone to me. Exhaust/manifolds are on the passenger side.

Les.

[ashtray]

sound like head gasket to me aswell.

the day you stop spending money on your land rover will be the day you sell it.

but dont worry, i work for mercedes benz and i regularly see customers with bills exceeding the thousand pound mark, and mercs are reliable, one good thing about land rovers, they're very simple and parts are cheap, so if you can work on it yourself, they are cheap to run. Hope you dont have any other problems.

[dooroy]

Failed head gasket doesn't always cause oil in the coolant or vice versa - depends on where the gasket failed . But it seems like yours has gone .

Did the headgasket in my sister's 300 Tdi some time ago and total cost came to just over €200 - including pressure test , new bolts and good quality gasket . The previous owner had been quoted €1500 for the job by a main dlr - so doing your own work can save a lot . And with the excellent advice available from many mbrs of this forum ( and freely given) I would now tackle any job on the Disco .

Would agree strongly with ashtray re cost of parts - if you can do your own work then parts are inexpensive and easy to get . While there may be ongoing repairs needed it won't cost you a fortune and the work is also reasonably straightforward .

[Scott_Argyll]

Failed head gasket doesn't always cause oil in the coolant or vice versa - depends on where the gasket failed . But it seems like yours has gone .

Did the headgasket in my sister's 300 Tdi some time ago and total cost came to just over €200 - including pressure test , new bolts and good quality gasket . The previous owner had been quoted €1500 for the job by a main dlr - so doing your own work can save a lot . And with the excellent advice available from many mbrs of this forum ( and freely given) I would now tackle any job on the Disco .

Would agree strongly with ashtray re cost of parts - if you can do your own work then parts are inexpensive and easy to get . While there may be ongoing repairs needed it won't cost you a fortune and the work is also reasonably straightforward .

Many thanks for the advice guys, I think i will have to attempt it this time as i could not afford the garage labour, to be fair my mechanic will work for cash so will do it for 20% cheaper than his normal rates which arent that high to start with but is still more than i have.

could some one help me with a parts list, if my understanding is right I will need a new set of bolts, head gasket (which size?) I use Christian Autos in Bristol who are brilliant.

Also how much of the engine will i need to remove to get the head off? and will the head need pressure testing if it has not failed through over heating?

[JimAttrill]

You don't HAVE to change the head bolts on a TDi as you can re-use them 5 times according to the manual. Most engines have not been apart five times.

[Les Henson]

You will need a head gasket of the same thickness as the old one - if the head has been skimmed in the past, it may be the thickest (no-hole) gasket. ID-ing it is easy -the notches are actually holes.

You can see the tab with the notches in between Nos 3 + 4 injector pipes - above the lift pump.

Maybe also an inlet/exhaust manifold gasket.

Removal of a 300TDi cylinder head is here -

http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=8179

You should always get a 300TDi cylinder head crack tested - they are prone to this problem.

A test and skim is usually only about £50, a decent head gasket is about £20. Apart from that you need a torque wrench that does both Nm and angles (or an angle guage conversion for a normal 1/2" drive ratchet).

Les.

[rocky]

Hello mate, did mine a couple of months ago after it blew the water out. Had a lot of advice from the guys here which would be worth a read. Get a genuine landrover headgasket as the new ones are far superior to anything else.

When you get the head pressure tested get them to check the valve stand-down cos if the head has been planed before then there may not be enough clearance between the valves/injectors and the pistons.

Some good advice I got was to use tippex when tightening down the head bolts. After stage 1 (torque all the head bolts in correct seqence to 40nm) i marked all the bolts with a vertical line of tippex (standing at the manifold side) then angle tightened all the bolts to 60 degrees, I only used the angle gauge on the first bolt, and then tightened the others to the same angle by sight. All bolts again 60 degrees using the same method, and finally all the M12 X 140mm a further 20 degrees.

In all it took me about 7 hours to complete the removal and refitting of the head and getting it up-and-running.

Good luck, Rocky

[Les Henson]

Most good quality head gaskets come with an information slip which includes tightening torque/sequence.

Elring 200TDi head gasket slip-

Les.

[JimAttrill]

The Elring head gasket IS the OEM genuine one, even if it is not in a LR packet. We have also used Victor Reinz gaskets with success.

The tipp-ex trick is a very good idea, mainly in that if you forget where you are when doing the head or are interrupted you can see which bolts have been tightened. With torque settings you can check to see which bolts have been done, but with angle tightening you can't do that.

[filthy]

The Elring head gasket IS the OEM genuine one, even if it is not in a LR packet. We have also used Victor Reinz gaskets with success.

The tipp-ex trick is a very good idea, mainly in that if you forget where you are when doing the head or are interrupted you can see which bolts have been tightened. With torque settings you can check to see which bolts have been done, but with angle tightening you can't do that.

- - - - - -

The head gasket, from experience, is a regular failure at or around every 70/80k miles use.

If you get a vehicle with 100k on the clock & no known head gasket replacement - then expect it to fail.

I have had 6 Disco's & they seem to follow this pattern. My wife's disco is up to 180k, so we'll change her head gasket as routine next summer, if it does not fail before.

Re head cracks & expence of pressure testing - the propper way to do it is obviously with a propper pressure test, but you could always try this :-

Remove fan & top fan cover,

start engine & run with COLD engine,

with a very soapy water solution in a rose sprayer . . . spray around the area the suspect area of gasket leak & on the sides of head also . . . . this will likely show you where the gas leak is comming from & also whether gas is escaping from walls of head itself, or just the gasket.

You will most likely get away with this & I've been lucky & not seen a cracked head yet.

As the head has not overheated you will probably be lucky.

WARNING - the torque settings & subsequent angle tightening is critical - so make sure you have a decent torque wrench & get it right 1st time. You will be able to re-use your head bolts.

- - - - - - -

Before starting job, drain a gallon of coolant & disconnect top hose from head - save coolant if good antifreeze & re-use.

Getting the manifolds off is simple . . .

Disconnect the tubes/hoses to the turbo charger & the pressure tube that runs around rear of engine.

remove tin heat shield (7mm socket) on inlet manifold first, then 4 bolts that bolt the inlet manifold 10mm & 13mm (note the two lower bolts just need to be loose, not removed).

Next, drop exhaust down pipe 15mm socket, disconnect battery, remove turbo oil feed & front drain pipe bolt - remove the rear drain tube bolt when manifold is off & tipped towards you.

Put a surgical/vinyl glove over oil feed pipe to keep clean & plug inlet side of oil feed of turbo with another glove - only need one grain of dirt to do major damage.

undo all exhaust manifold bolts 15mm & remove manifold with turbo unit.

disconnect injector pipes from top of injectors 17mm + loosen pipes at inj pump.

Remove injectors & heater plugs at this stage also if you want.

Remove crank breather 8mm.

Remove rocker cover 13mm.

remove rocker pedastal & it's 3 bolts.

Get a bit of cardboard box & mark numbers 1 thru 8 & push the push rods thru, so as to keep positions correct.

From here on follow the manual for the head gasket job.

Also have a small table for the bits & plenty of paper towel.

Critically, don't let bits of gasket & crud go down the gallerys in head & block.

You may want to remove injectors & heater plugs, to reduce risk of damage before you take the head off.

This head job will want a new inlet/exh gasket as well as head gasket.

You will not nead any sealant.

Suggest you change thermostat at same time & make sure bulb of stat goes in the hole first.

When bolting the bits back on to the replaced head after gasket is done, be careful how tight you bolt it all up. The head is just aluminium & the bolts easilly ripped out.

My latest Disco has been butchered & I've had to re-tap & helicoil all the manifold studs, the rocker pedastal stids, the crank breather hole etc - a real balls aching nuisance.

all in all, head job is a simple job . . . just allow a day.

gb@combatfx.freeserve.co.uk if I can be any more help.

Good luck

Filthy

[JimAttrill]

My latest Disco has been butchered & I've had to re-tap & helicoil all the manifold studs, the rocker pedastal stids, the crank breather hole etc - a real balls aching nuisance.

That's really quite bad. To have to helicoil ALL the manifold studs means the PO was an idiot. So the rest of the Disco will be a mess

[filthy]

That's really quite bad. To have to helicoil ALL the manifold studs means the PO was an idiot. So the rest of the Disco will be a mess :-(

YES, the rest of the Disco is a mess - physically looks brilliant, but the previous owner also decided to recon the gear box & transfer box - badly. . . .

Today I had to remove the front prop & engage the diff lock, as the front transfer box bearing is smashed to bits - probably shimmed wrongly.

I greased the prop UJ's a couple of months ago & found one UJ had no circlips in it. !

Typically, when I thrashed it on a test drive, it drove well.

The full story - 2 months before I had it, it did it's first off road trip & went down a 12 ft crevace & into a concrete tank stopper. This folded the axle, destroyed the steering gear, tore the sump & smashed the cam cover + power steering pump + flattened the rad & intercooler. . . the woman driver still managed to back up & drove to the finish area, where the engine siezed up after running out of all oil & water.

I found out all this a month after I got it, when I accidentally bumped into the idiots who did the repairs, who seemed proud of their work. A month after this the head gasket blew.

Turned out that the shower of idiots who did the repairs entrusted them to a day release student who had no idea of torque or the fact that the 300TDi has an aluminium cylinder head.

£1200 worth of repairs & these twits rebuilt the engine with new bearings, cam, turbo etc, but failed to fit new turbo oil hoses or new pistons. The turbo siezed & exploded just before I got it(luckily) & there is so much slop between the pistons & bores - you can get a small screwdriver blade between the liner & piston. . . . . & boy is there some crank case gas. So much so, that the crank case vent pipe has been vented under the car & not filling the intercooler with oil.

So If you have a cheap Disco for sale with good engine & transmission - I want it for parts.

Regards & cheers for sympathy.

Filthy