200tdi Engine Damaged?

[Marks 110]

I've just removed the head on my 200tdi which went up in smoke on monday. It seems the gasket has gone between the triangular shaped coolant passageway and No.3 cylinder. The triangular area on the surface on the head is badly pitted. I'd noticed this last year when I changed the gasket (it had blown out the back of no.4 cylinder), that'll teach me to have em skimmed. I'm not sure if this head is reuseable but thats not too much of a problem as I am thinking of putting a disco one on. More worrrying is if the engine has been damaged.

At least it explains why the cooling system has been excessively pressurised.

The oil is all emulsified and the feed to the turbo as well, is this likely to have damaged the turbo?

One pushrod is badly bent, the others seem o.k.

I've certainly lost a lot of coolant (header tank empty and rad 2/3full) a lot of this seems to have been sprayed around the engine bay. Iwonder if the header tank cap has a relief valve and its blown out of there?

A few more questions

There was coolant sat in the crown of no.3 piston. Will this have bent the conrod, how do I check?

Is the engine likely to be reusable, what other things do I need to check and how do I flush out the contaminated oil?

Where has the water got into the engine, past the rings in no.3 cylinder as it was compressed I presume?

Any help on what to do next much appreciated

mark

[western]

change any bent pushrods, check the rockers & the pad that pushes on the valves,the water in top of number 3 will be from the leaking area/lifting head off. the water from cooling system will have got into the sump by going down the pushrod gallery's, a rebuild & flush with cheap engine oil or a good flushing oil will clean any unwanted stuff out.

[Marks 110]

change any bent pushrods, check the rockers & the pad that pushes on the valves,the water in top of number 3 will be from the leaking area/lifting head off. the water from cooling system will have got into the sump by going down the pushrod gallery's, a rebuild & flush with cheap engine oil or a good flushing oil will clean any unwanted stuff out.

cheers Western

You reckon its not totally ruined then.

I'll definately have to get the head skimmed first, any idea how much material can be taken off? Not sure if its been done before, I've had if for the last 8 years.

Mark

[western]

I'n not sure of the maximum material that can be removed by refacing the head, but a e.mail to Turner Engineering should get you the correct info.

[gruntus]

Hi Mark,

You can get the head skimmed and you may not need too much taken off.

As to how much you can take off I'm not exactly certain but the deciding factor is the protrusion of your pistons above the block (check they are in tolerance, the pistons protrude above the block face when at TDC) and then the gap between the valves when seated and the face of the head.

If you read between the lines you are effectively checking there is enough room for the piston to come TDC (Top Dead Centre) and clear all valves/head as the engine works.

The clearance can be measured by using a straight edge across the face of the piston recess in the head and feeler gauges between the valves and the straight edge.

Measure them before skimming and then get checked again after you get the head skimmed.

If they are outside the tolerance on return you can get the valve seats recut to effectively recess the valves further into the head and hence give you the correct clearance of valve face and head face.

With the head in tolerance and the piston protrusion in tolerance you can check to see which head gasket is best suited but you may find that the original (three hole) is well inside the limits.

Hope this isnt too confusing and is of help.

Best regards

Grant

EDITED TO ADD: Check Les' technical thread for checking the piston protrusion.

[Marks 110]

Hi Mark,

You can get the head skimmed and you may not need too much taken off.

As to how much you can take off I'm not exactly certain but the deciding factor is the protrusion of your pistons above the block (check they are in tolerance, the pistons protrude above the block face when at TDC) and then the gap between the valves when seated and the face of the head.

If you read between the lines you are effectively checking there is enough room for the piston to come TDC (Top Dead Centre) and clear all valves/head as the engine works.

The clearance can be measured by using a straight edge across the face of the piston recess in the head and feeler gauges between the valves and the straight edge.

Measure them before skimming and then get checked again after you get the head skimmed.

If they are outside the tolerance on return you can get the valve seats recut to effectively recess the valves further into the head and hence give you the correct clearance of valve face and head face.

With the head in tolerance and the piston protrusion in tolerance you can check to see which head gasket is best suited but you may find that the original (three hole) is well inside the limits.

Hope this isnt too confusing and is of help.

Best regards

Grant

EDITED TO ADD: Check Les' technical thread for checking the piston protrusion.

Yeah after checking the technical thread that makes sense. Any thoughts on how to check the turbo?

Cheers for your help. I'll check the piston protusion tomorrow, I guess this will also show if the conrods are bent.

Thanks again

Mark

[western]

to check the turbo, just take off the air hose on the front & try to move the centre shaft up/down & in/out, you may get some slight up/down or sideways movement, which is normal, in/out movement there should be almost none.

[Timmy511]

dont use flushing oil, flushing oil is very very thin and isnt designed to be used with turbos, theres not enough viscosity to hold preasure in the bearing housing.

drain your oil, fill it with clean oil take it for a short run, drain it again, fit new filter and fresh oil and the change your oil and filter again after a hundered miles or so. it may cost a few extra pounds but itll be worth it and wont kill your turbo.

[Les Henson]

I would expect coolant to be in No3 cylinder as the gasket had blown between it and and the water jacket - it's also common for oil/water to be in the cylinders when the head is removed anyway due to there being coolant left in the head when you take it off and it drains out. The amount you skim off a head is no longer so important anymore - head savers can be made to replace any material that's removed from the head in the skimming process (so long as you know how much has been removed).

Unless your turbo is obviously knackered - I would repair the engine and put it all back together and see how it runs. A worn turbo shaft bearing may still last a long time - no point in replacing it if you don't know the condition of the engine until you hear it running.

Les.

[Marks 110]

I would expect coolant to be in No3 cylinder as the gasket had blown between it and and the water jacket - it's also common for oil/water to be in the cylinders when the head is removed anyway due to there being coolant left in the head when you take it off and it drains out. The amount you skim off a head is no longer so important anymore - head savers can be made to replace any material that's removed from the head in the skimming process (so long as you know how much has been removed).

Unless your turbo is obviously knackered - I would repair the engine and put it all back together and see how it runs. A worn turbo shaft bearing may still last a long time - no point in replacing it if you don't know the condition of the engine until you hear it running.

Les.

Measured the piston protusion today seems to be pretty even max about 0.72mm min about 0.58 so I reckon the conrods are OK wahat do you think?

The engine seems to turn freely enough. Is there any way of ckecking the wear of pistons/ bores. The engine uses a fair bit of oil but a lot of it seems to be blown back into the air flter via the crankcase breather.

Mark

[Les Henson]

To check for bore wear - the top piston ring doesn't go right to the top of the bore, so wear is determined by a visible 'step' close to the top. The bigger the step - the more wear there is in the bore.

To check for worn rings you would have to remove the piston from the engine.

Piston protrusion seems ok to me - there's always some variation between one and the other.

Les.

[western]

the figures sound good to me just choose the correct gasket from this info Tdi head gasket list

[My Name is Craig]

If you have the patience to wait, I might be able to send you a replacement head, hoping to finish my project about Christmas, depending on how yours is, possibly a turbo too, engine is about 130k miles.

[Marks 110]

If you have the patience to wait, I might be able to send you a replacement head, hoping to finish my project about Christmas, depending on how yours is, possibly a tu rbo too, engine is about 130k miles.

If you've got a spare head I'd be interested Craig.

Having mine skimmed today but the pitting is quite deep so i'm not that confident it will last much longer and will change it if I can come across a better one.

Also a mate of mine runs a 200tdi 110 with suspected head problems so he's looking for a spare as well. Send us a PM when your ready to get rid if you like.

Mark