Marks 110 Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 After replacing the head gasket and sorting out a couple of problems (missing injector washer and pushrod not located correctly). I thought I'd sorted it. It now seems to have developed a noise coming from the manifold side of the engine. Sounds like a heavy knock at idle which becomes more high pitched as revs increase. Then last night driving home in the dark I thought I'd try going flat out a up steep incline. Went fairly well (doesn't seem to lack much power) and temp gauge sits just past half way once warmed up. However much to my horror I could now see sparks being emitted out of the exhaust. This carried on for a couple of minutes and now seems to have cleared, I noticed the car following kept a respectable distance! I no expert with engines so does anybody know what might cause this, I presume it's not a good sign! Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars L Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 I had a Peugeot 404D doing this after good full speed runs. Happened every time. I was 19 at the time. Soot, I believe... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmy_neutron Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 After replacing the head gasket and sorting out a couple of problems (missing injector washer and pushrod not located correctly). I thought I'd sorted it. It now seems to have developed a noise coming from the manifold side of the engine. Sounds like a heavy knock at idle which becomes more high pitched as revs increase.Then last night driving home in the dark I thought I'd try going flat out a up steep incline. Went fairly well (doesn't seem to lack much power) and temp gauge sits just past half way once warmed up. However much to my horror I could now see sparks being emitted out of the exhaust. This carried on for a couple of minutes and now seems to have cleared, I noticed the car following kept a respectable distance! I no expert with engines so does anybody know what might cause this, I presume it's not a good sign! Mark Did you replace the head gasket with one of the correct thickness ??? They have got dots on them to show how thick they are. replace it with one thats too thin and you may get colisions + sparks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marks 110 Posted January 1, 2009 Author Share Posted January 1, 2009 Did you replace the head gasket with one of the correct thickness ???They have got dots on them to show how thick they are. replace it with one thats too thin and you may get colisions + sparks. Yes I checked the height of the pistons and selected the corresponding gasket - turned out to be the same as was already on - 3 hole. Will try driving it again today and see if sparks continue. Wonder if it was just buring off some muck or soot deposits? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacks906 Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 could it not be the turbo if you have a knock coming from the manifold and its bits of fins coming out of the exhaust?? drop the inlet pipe off and check for free play dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marks 110 Posted January 1, 2009 Author Share Posted January 1, 2009 could it not be the turbo if you have a knock coming from the manifold and its bits of fins coming out of the exhaust??drop the inlet pipe off and check for free play dave I thought that as well but the vanes on the impeller look fine. There's a small amount of play but I don't think it's excessive. I'm not sure if the knock is more of a loose bearing type noise. Could have damaged something when the head gasket went, there must have been some excessive force within the engine as one of the pushrods was bent, possibly caused by coolant in the bores? Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
townsend Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 could be fuel related. when overfueling diesel burns off in exhaust and emits sparks. check injectors and fuel related. seen this before in many cars especially when blocked cat or exhasust system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marks 110 Posted January 2, 2009 Author Share Posted January 2, 2009 could be fuel related. when overfueling diesel burns off in exhaust and emits sparks. check injectors and fuel related. seen this before in many cars especially when blocked cat or exhasust system. Yeah I'll get the injectors checked, there's a bit of black smoke under acceleration which I guess is also a sign of overfueling. Don't suppose anyone knows where to take them in the Lincolnshire area or is it best to send them away? Went out on a short journey today and ran Ok, no sign of sparks and knocking noise not apparent although engine didn't even get up to temp. Thanks for your suggestions Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmy_neutron Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Yeah I'll get the injectors checked, there's a bit of black smoke under acceleration which I guess is also a sign of overfueling.Don't suppose anyone knows where to take them in the Lincolnshire area or is it best to send them away? Went out on a short journey today and ran Ok, no sign of sparks and knocking noise not apparent although engine didn't even get up to temp. Thanks for your suggestions Mark When you say you replaced the gasket, does that mean that you also had the head skimmed / polished ? If so Landrover say that a 200tdi should not be skimmed, although personally i would do it if needed. The reason they say not to skim the head at all is cos its known to them that the valves will touch the tops of the pistons. The way around this is to seat / recess the valves in slightly deeper. Also if ya getting the injectors checked be aware that most 'specialists' say that they can check the spray pattern / injectors but in fact they are only able to check the first stage. The normal problem with 200tdi injectors is not going into the second stage which causes underfueling or stubborness as i call it. Temp just above half way could be if ya decided to replace the thermostat whilst having the engine stripped down. Everyone and their dog states an 88degree stat. However mine always ran slightly hot with an 88 stat. Reason being an 88 stat starts to open at 88 meaning the coolant temp was around 95. I fitted an 82 degree stat which means my actual coolant temp is 88/89 degrees and strangely my temp needle sits bang on half way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marks 110 Posted January 2, 2009 Author Share Posted January 2, 2009 When you say you replaced the gasket, does that mean that you also had the head skimmed / polished ? If so Landrover say that a 200tdi should not be skimmed, although personally i would do it if needed. The reason they say not to skim the head at all is cos its known to them that the valves will touch the tops of the pistons. The way around this is to seat / recess the valves in slightly deeper. Also if ya getting the injectors checked be aware that most 'specialists' say that they can check the spray pattern / injectors but in fact they are only able to check the first stage. The normal problem with 200tdi injectors is not going into the second stage which causes underfueling or stubborness as i call it. Temp just above half way could be if ya decided to replace the thermostat whilst having the engine stripped down. Everyone and their dog states an 88degree stat. However mine always ran slightly hot with an 88 stat. Reason being an 88 stat starts to open at 88 meaning the coolant temp was around 95. I fitted an 82 degree stat which means my actual coolant temp is 88/89 degrees and strangely my temp needle sits bang on half way. Head was skimmed but valve recess was still ok (slightly over actually) as last time I had the head off I'd been a bit too agressive when lapping the valves in (someone told me to do it with a cordless drill and I regretted it!). What would be the consequences of excessive valve recesses - lower compressions? I'm sure that the performance wasn't as good afterwards. Injectors were recon items only 14 months ago but I wonder if one could have been damaged by water in the bore. To be honest I've not been that happy with the recon injectors they didn't seem to make any difference, worse if anything. The main reason I changed them was that Turners said that incorrect spray patterns was a cause of head gasket failure. I'd booked the 110 in at a local 'diesel specialist' 6 months earlier who claimed the injectors were 'baked' in the head and that he'd have to take the head off to get em out for testing. He still charged me £50 labour for attempting to get the injectors out with a slide hammer. So when it came to stripping down the head I was expecting all sorts of trouble. As it happened a slight turn with a small adjustable and they all slid straight out, the lying b.....d! Thats why I wondered if anyone new anywhere reputable to get them tested. Maybe I'll try an 82 degree stat I'm pretty sure the Haynes manual recommends it anyway. Cheers Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 Defender 200Tdi should have a 88 degree state that's factory genuine fit, I tried a 82 & found the heater wasn't giving enough hot air, so went back to a 88. check your phone book for 'diesel injection' or Bosch agents Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marks 110 Posted January 3, 2009 Author Share Posted January 3, 2009 Defender 200Tdi should have a 88 degree state that's factory genuine fit, I tried a 82 & found the heater wasn't giving enough hot air, so went back to a 88.check your phone book for 'diesel injection' or Bosch agents So you wouln't be worried if the temp sat just past halfway? To be honest I've never had a lot of heat anyway, my mates 110 is certainly a lot warmer. Cheers mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 just slightly past the vertical when stationary would be fine, as it will drop when on the move due to the ram air across the rad surface. make sure any thermostat has the little jiggle pin & bleed hole in it, others without can cause problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marks 110 Posted January 3, 2009 Author Share Posted January 3, 2009 just slightly past the vertical when stationary would be fine, as it will drop when on the move due to the ram air across the rad surface. make sure any thermostat has the little jiggle pin & bleed hole in it, others without can cause problems. Cheers I'll check the stat. I only repaced it a couple of months ago as I thought it may be causing the problem. However when I tested them in a pan of water brought slowly to the boil the old stat opened up slightly before the new one although they were both marked 88 deg. Can't remember now if it had that bleed thing or not but I'll check. The needle sits just past half way when driving, a little too close to the red for comfort. I have no fan but I don't suppose it makes any difference whilst moving. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmy_neutron Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 Cheers I'll check the stat. I only repaced it a couple of months ago as I thought it may be causing the problem. However when I tested them in a pan of water brought slowly to the boil the old stat opened up slightly before the new one although they were both marked 88 deg. Can't remember now if it had that bleed thing or not but I'll check. The needle sits just past half way when driving, a little too close to the red for comfort. I have no fan but I don't suppose it makes any difference whilst moving.Mark TBH it sounds like exactly the same road that i headed down. I don't doubt anything that western says and the 88 stat probably is the right one. Problem is that i couldn't get an 88 degree stat to open at the same temp as my old one. If ya do some internet searching (I did loads at the time), loads of people complain of their 200tdi's running just over half way. I even changed my radiator as i got convinced that it needed it. Also drilled a 1.5mm hole in the stat plate. This caused the engine to take a decade to warm up and got to 3/4 on the needle when under heavy load anyway. Some people, and i think western may have done this as well, fit a VDO guage out of a td5 as they apparantly read more accurately. As you know i just fitted an 82 degree stat and all worked as it did. I got an electric fan as well just in case you were wondering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marks 110 Posted January 3, 2009 Author Share Posted January 3, 2009 TBH it sounds like exactly the same road that i headed down. I don't doubt anything that western says and the 88 stat probably is the right one. Problem is that i couldn't get an 88 degree stat to open at the same temp as my old one. If ya do some internet searching (I did loads at the time), loads of people complain of their 200tdi's running just over half way. I even changed my radiator as i got convinced that it needed it. Also drilled a 1.5mm hole in the stat plate. This caused the engine to take a decade to warm up and got to 3/4 on the needle when under heavy load anyway. Some people, and i think western may have done this as well, fit a VDO guage out of a td5 as they apparantly read more accurately. As you know i just fitted an 82 degree stat and all worked as it did. I got an electric fan as well just in case you were wondering. Yeah for the sake of a few quid I might try the 82 deg or maybe look into a more accurate gauge. At the risk of sounding a bit dumb what does VDO stand for. The only warning sign I got before the head gasket going was the gauge going virtually to the red in before it backed off a bit as the thermostat opened. This happen for a few weeks until the thing eventually went up in smoke. I'm not doubting Western either but it certainly feels a bit uncomfortable with the gauge past half way during high speed driving. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 VDO is just a Trade name for Siemens VDO gauges. my temp gauges is a Td5 unit, but a VDO temp plus matching sender will be better,as you can see when the stat opens/closes. my engine still has it's viscous fan fitted & the temp never gets above halfway regardless of what type of work it's doing. Mark -- what stae is the radiator in, are all the cooling fins intact particularlly the bottom 4 rows on the engine side, a few years back my temp wouls rise to the nearly in the red & a new rad cured it as the old one had next to no fins left in the bottom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marks 110 Posted January 3, 2009 Author Share Posted January 3, 2009 VDO is just a Trade name for Siemens VDO gauges. my temp gauges is a Td5 unit, but a VDO temp plus matching sender will be better,as you can see when the stat opens/closes.my engine still has it's viscous fan fitted & the temp never gets above halfway regardless of what type of work it's doing. Mark -- what stae is the radiator in, are all the cooling fins intact particularlly the bottom 4 rows on the engine side, a few years back my temp wouls rise to the nearly in the red & a new rad cured it as the old one had next to no fins left in the bottom. Just been out and checked, fins are all intact and should be as rad was re-cored about 4 years ago. As far as I can recall my temp used to sit just under halfway and never move even when driving through over the pyrenees in 30 degree plus heat. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 is the viscous fan/hub fitted & working ? if not fitted that maybe part of the temp problem as your only relying on ram air effect when moving to dissapate the heat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marks 110 Posted January 3, 2009 Author Share Posted January 3, 2009 is the viscous fan/hub fitted & working ? if not fitted that maybe part of the temp problem as your only relying on ram air effect when moving to dissapate the heat. No. I haven't bothered with the fan for a few years (apart from the pyranees trip). I'll put the fan and cowling back on and road test tomorrow although I wouldn't have thought it would make much difference unless the vehicle was stationary. Never noticed any difference when I took it off either. Was just looking to get a couple of extra mpg. Might be worth changing the temp sender, would be interesting to see if it makes any difference. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 could be the sender isn't working properly, worth a try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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