plank22 Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 I have just got the 3.9 engine and auto box in my S3 hybrid and run the engine up today but im not gettting any drive from the box. During the install some oil was lost from the box and all most all from the torque converter. Before running it up I topped up the oil using the dip-stick and it didnt seem to take that much so i started the engine and tried all the gears but no drive to the output flanges (props not on yet). I know very little about auto boxes and need it all working for the weekend and im worried i may have broken something from starting the engine! Once the engine had run the oil level hadn't gone down at all. How does the torque converter get the oil, do i need to fill it up manually and have i broken it? The oil cooler isnt attached yet and thinking about it now i should check if im getting circulation there? its just looped with pipe. Thanks for any help in advance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SacredDog Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 I have just got the 3.9 engine and auto box in my S3 hybrid and run the engine up today but im not gettting any drive from the box. During the install some oil was lost from the box and all most all from the torque converter. Before running it up I topped up the oil using the dip-stick and it didnt seem to take that much so i started the engine and tried all the gears but no drive to the output flanges (props not on yet). I know very little about auto boxes and need it all working for the weekend and im worried i may have broken something from starting the engine! Once the engine had run the oil level hadn't gone down at all. How does the torque converter get the oil, do i need to fill it up manually and have i broken it? Thanks for any help in advance! I'm no expert but having converted a Defender to Auto (not entirely successfully i might add) it sounds like you have damaged the Oil Pump when you fitted the Torque Converter. Hopefully Dave (AshTrans) will see this & give you some expert advice. Failing that it might be worth PMing him. I'll see what Ielse I can find out & post something tomorrow, unless some others more knowledgeable get there first. Colin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plank22 Posted March 17, 2009 Author Share Posted March 17, 2009 where abouts be the oil pump, i take it deep inside the box? the engine was only running for about a minute. will spilt cooler pipes tomorrow and see if i get any circulation. thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave W Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 When you bolt the gearbox up to the engine it is vital that the torque converter is completely engaged into the gearbox and stays there as you attach the engine. If you don't get it engaged properly and use pressure to pull the gearbox and engine together using the bell housing bolts, the chances are the oil pump has been damaged. Even when you think it's engaged it's worth measuring that it is the correct distance back from the bell housing as it locates in two stages. A lot of people make the mistake of attaching the torque converter to the engine first and then offering the gearbox up... which will never end well. The oil pump is at the front of the gearbox and, as you may have guessed from the above, the torque converter slots into it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plank22 Posted March 17, 2009 Author Share Posted March 17, 2009 I knew about putting the TC on to the box first and tried to make sure it was fully home too. Does the oil pump fill up the TC with oil? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave W Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 I knew about putting the TC on to the box first and tried to make sure it was fully home too. Does the oil pump fill up the TC with oil? Thanks It should do, the torque converter is in the circulation "path". Normally you'd expect the oil level to drop as soon as you run it for the first time. Did you remember to bolt the torque converter to the flywheel after fitting the box... I've never forgotten to do that myself... well, not many times anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_d Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 .......Did you remember to bolt the torque converter to the flywheel after fitting the box... It's gone very quite. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plank22 Posted March 18, 2009 Author Share Posted March 18, 2009 It's gone very quite.Steve Sorry was bed time!! Yeh I bolted it on. Is there any electrical conns that make a difference I would guess at it all being mechanical. Would the prps not being on make a difference, at least one flange would turn? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plank22 Posted March 18, 2009 Author Share Posted March 18, 2009 It's gone very quite.Steve Sorry was bed time!! Yeh I bolted it on. Is there any electrical conns that make a difference I would guess at it all being mechanical. Would the prps not being on make a difference, at least one flange would turn? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plank22 Posted March 18, 2009 Author Share Posted March 18, 2009 It's gone very quite.Steve Sorry was bed time!! Yeh I bolted it on. Is there any electrical conns that make a difference I would guess at it all being mechanical. Would the prps not being on make a difference, at least one flange would turn? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paintman Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 Assuming gear levers in the right positionIf you didn't measure the distance between a straight edge laid across the mouth of the bellhousing and the top of any of the 4 lugs on the front of the torque converter and confirm that it was as specified in Ashcrofts site for your particular gearbox then it is highly likely that you have not engaged the TC with the pump & have split the pump. Disconnect the line from the oil cooler & with a bowl held under it start the engine. If you get a good flow of oil out of the pipe then the pump is OK. If it doesn't the pump has gone & its box off time again to replace it. See http://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/part_18.html#pa2 the bit that says 'Installation instructions' and http://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/faq.html#a18 'I have just fitted.....' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_d Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 Did the engine just plop straight in face to face or did you have to pull it together with the bell housing bolts? Have just had a thought. The torque converter engages with, and drives, the fluid pump. If the TC is empty then it will spin internally and not produce any drive to the pump. No drive to pump = no fluid into the TC = catch22. A grownup will be along shortly to tell me how wrong that is. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian_s Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 are you just testing it in drive? have you tried it in 1, 2 or reverse? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paintman Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 If the TC is empty then it will spin internally and not produce any drive to the pump. No drive to pump = no fluid into the TC = catch22.A grownup will be along shortly to tell me how wrong that is. Steve Doesn't work like that. The lugs on the gearbox side of the TC engage with and drive the pump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plank22 Posted March 18, 2009 Author Share Posted March 18, 2009 I split the cooler hoses and sure enough no flow out of them, not even a drop and the oil level in the dipstick hasnt budged. This does spell out broken oil pump i know but is there any other possabilites? I did bolt the TC onto the box first and the engine did bolt up the box without too much hassle. Im kinda needing it this weekend so willing to try lots of stuff without having to take the box out. Is the oil pump a box rebuild and lota of hard work? :( :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave W Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 Hopefully Dave Ashcroft will be along soon and point you in the right direction but from vague memory last time I changed an A clutch about 5 years ago the pump assembly was just in front of the A clutch and is the first thing you take off the box so with the box out it's literally a 10 minute job to swap it over and i don't recall there being anything tricky about it. cheers Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SacredDog Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 I split the cooler hoses and sure enough no flow out of them, not even a drop and the oil level in the dipstick hasnt budged. This does spell out broken oil pump i know but is there any other possabilites? I did bolt the TC onto the box first and the engine did bolt up the box without too much hassle. Im kinda needing it this weekend so willing to try lots of stuff without having to take the box out. Is the oil pump a box rebuild and lota of hard work? :( :( From what I've read (see attached) it's not that difficult to replace the pump. Colin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plank22 Posted March 18, 2009 Author Share Posted March 18, 2009 Thanks alot to all help so far! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plank22 Posted March 18, 2009 Author Share Posted March 18, 2009 From what I've read (see attached) it's not that difficult to replace the pump.Colin. colin, Where about u find that picture mate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paintman Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 You don't have a manual?? Try http://www.green-oval.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SacredDog Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 colin,Where about u find that picture mate? As PaintMan said look here: http://www.green-oval.com it's in the RAVE for RRC, I just cut & pasted the 2 relevant pages together. Colin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plank22 Posted March 20, 2009 Author Share Posted March 20, 2009 Well thanks for the help all and your right the oil pump be buggered! I had a spare box that was given to me so i raped it for the pump and turns out that too had been broken in exactly the same way! Looks like shopping time! Its the gear on the oil pump, looks like the small lugs on the side have been broken off by the TC from miss alignment. I dont suppose any one know the real name for this doo hicky so I know what to ask about for? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SacredDog Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 Well thanks for the help all and your right the oil pump be buggered! I had a spare box that was given to me so i raped it for the pump and turns out that too had been broken in exactly the same way! Looks like shopping time! Its the gear on the oil pump, looks like the small lugs on the side have been broken off by the TC from miss alignment. I dont suppose any one know the real name for this doo hicky so I know what to ask about for? Thanks. Is the attached any use? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_d Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 Rather than worry about what it is called I would ring http://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/ (Ashtrans on here) and tell him what has happened and he will be able to supply all you need to fix it and advice along the way. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SacredDog Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 Rather than worry about what it is called I would ring http://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/ (Ashtrans on here) and tell him what has happened and he will be able to supply all you need to fix it and advice along the way.Steve Yep, good idea Steve and/or send Dave a PM. You could use the picture from MicroCat http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?act=atta...st&id=20791 to describe exactly what's broken. Colin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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