1994 300TDi single fob alarm - also immobiliser?

[Meesch]

Hello,

I have a 1994 Discovery 1 300TDi. Have managed to establish with some internet wading this morning that the car has the standard fit single button (Lucas?) fob alarm. Does this also system also include an immobiliser? Couldn't establish that from my investigations.

Many thanks.

[nicedayforit]

Hello,

I have a 1994 Discovery 1 300TDi. Have managed to establish with some internet wading this morning that the car has the standard fit single button (Lucas?) fob alarm. Does this also system also include an immobiliser? Couldn't establish that from my investigations.

Many thanks.

It does. The immobiliser is activated when you lock the car.

[cipx2]

Pre '96 Discoverys don't have immobilization.

[bushyboo]

Pre '96 Discoverys don't have immobilization.

beg to differ my 94 disco has immobiliser now bypassed because of problems

immobiliser cuts power to starter solinoid ans fuel pump

Gordon

[nicedayforit]

Pre '96 Discoverys don't have immobilization.

Thats interesting because my 94 300tdi does, and I know for a fact it's original fitment.

It's also described in my handbook.

[cipx2]

To be sure we're talking about the same thing, when there is an imobilizer you have:

- a two button fob

- a red led in the center bottom of the instrument panel which is blinking when the immob is activated (it self activates 30 secs after you stop the engine and open the door or after 5 mins without opening the door or when you set the alarm on)

- a red warning light on the right side of the instrument panel to tell you when you try start an immobilized engine and the transponder in the fob isn't detected

- a spider (a digital control unit) on the non EDC tdis (the EDC tdis are on post 95 autos and the spider function is done by the ECM)

- a DDS on the inj pum which prevents accessing the fuel shut off solenoid

Are all the above present on your vehicle?

You're not talking about the alarm system which is a completely different thing, are you?

[nicedayforit]

To be sure we're talking about the same thing, when there is an imobilizer you have:

- a two button fob

- a red led in the center bottom of the instrument panel which is blinking when the immob is activated (it self activates 30 secs after you stop the engine and open the door or after 5 mins without opening the door or when you set the alarm on)

- a red warning light on the right side of the instrument panel to tell you when you try start an immobilized engine and the transponder in the fob isn't detected

- a spider (a digital control unit) on the non EDC tdis (the EDC tdis are on post 95 autos and the spider function is done by the ECM)

- a DDS on the inj pum which prevents accessing the fuel shut off solenoid

Are all the above present on your vehicle?

You're not talking about the alarm system which is a completely different thing, are you?

Non of the above apart from the red lamp indication.

When I lock my car by single button fob or with the key the alarm sets and the starter is inhibited.

It works because I can test it by creating a "door mislock" condition.

It's obviously not as sophsticated as you describe the later models as having but it is an immobiliser all the same.

[cipx2]

As I said the immobilizer is a different and independent anti-theft system.

What the alarm system does (inhibiting whatever) doesn't count, once disarmed everything works.

The immobilizer system is a second line of defense and it works independently of the alarm. You can bin all the alarm gubins altogether and the vehicle will still be immobilized.

From the user p.o.v, the most important important element in an immob system is the transponder, embedded in key, card or fob. You cannot start the vehicle without the transponder in the proximity of the ignition switch, card slot or inside the vehicle.

In case of a fob, like the D1 has, if you can leave the fob at home and start the vehicle then you don't have an immobilizer system on your vehicle (or it was disabled). For the D1, if the fob is further than 30-50 cm away from the ignition switch, the car won't start.

Further reading: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immobiliser

So I say again, pre '96 Discoverys don't have an immobilizer.

[nicedayforit]

As I said the immobilizer is a different and independent anti-theft system.

What the alarm system does (inhibiting whatever) doesn't count, once disarmed everything works.

The immobilizer system is a second line of defense and it works independently of the alarm. You can bin all the alarm gubins altogether and the vehicle will still be immobilized.

From the user p.o.v, the most important important element in an immob system is the transponder, embedded in key, card or fob. You cannot start the vehicle without the transponder in the proximity of the ignition switch, card slot or inside the vehicle.

In case of a fob, like the D1 has, if you can leave the fob at home and start the vehicle then you don't have an immobilizer system on your vehicle (or it was disabled). For the D1, if the fob is further than 30-50 cm away from the ignition switch, the car won't start.

Further reading: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immobiliser

So I say again, pre '96 Discoverys don't have an immobilizer.

We shall simply have to disagree on what constituted an immobiliser in 1994. In it's day I don't doubt it was called an imobiliser.

[cipx2]

I have doubts that what was called an "electronic engine immob sytem" in 1994 was different from what it's called today since they were introduced in 1993 in Europe.

But if you were led to believe the immobilizer is what you described (the stater being disabled by the alarm system) then show us some pics/scans of the 1994 user manual with the "immobil...." words occurrences, including LR publication # (LRL something).

Or any other manual, leaflet etc from 94-95.

[teabag]

Pre '96 Discoverys don't have immobilization.

Wrong..they all do, but then they will not be 'passive' unless they have the two button system .... therefore you would be better off reading a disco owners handbook, then you wouldn't have to waste time with three posts trying to prove your first statement.

[cipx2]

Show me pics or scans of the 1994 or 1995 owner's handbook where it says the word "immobiliser" or any word from the same family. I only have and read the 97 pdf edition and printed edition of the 98 Discovery I OWN, both manuals being irrelevant since post 95 vehicles have an immobiliser system.

The fact the alarm system disrupts the starter or fuel circuit or whatever else upon arming (active or passive) doesn't make that system an "engine immobilizer".

If you guys want to reinvent the wheel and name it some other way, you're free to do it but count me out. If not, read the definition of an "immobiliser" in the link I gave.

An "engine immobilizer system" must have a transponder in the key or the fob AND prevent hot wiring.

No transponder => no "engine immobilizer system".

In the 94 and 95 models the fuel shut off solenoid is exposed, it can be hard wired and the vehicle can be push started => what f...g "engine immobiliser system" is that?!

The '95 wokshop manual doesn't say anything about an "immobiliser". The '96 and post 96 versions do say. Obviously the LR engineers knew how to name things.

According to the 95 WS manual all you have is this:

- "Cranking is disabled when volumetric and perimetric protection is armed", or

- "It is only possible to crank the engine when ignition is ON and alarm disabled"

If you want to name this ^^^^ an "engine immobiliser" then do so, it's a free world afterall.

But if you want to know where this pseudo-immmobiliser alarm on the 94/95 fails to be an immobiliser then read on. These are quotes from the EU directive [and my comments between brackets].

'Immobilizer' means a device which is intended to prevent the driving away of a vehicle powered by its own engine. [says "driving away", "prevent engine starting" only is not enough, see further down].

An immobilizer shall be designed and built such that, when installed on a vehicle, according to the manufacturer's instructions, it cannot rapidly and without attracting attention be rendered ineffective or destroyed by, e. g. the use of low cost easily concealed tools, equipment or fabrications readily available to the public at large. It shall be difficult and time consuming to replace a major component or assembly in order to bypass the immobilizer. [the shut off solenoid and the starter can be hard wired in less than 10 seconds].

An immobilizer shall be designed so as to prevent the operation of the vehicle under its own power by at least one of the following means:

1. disable at least two separate vehicle circuits that are needed for vehicle operation under its own power (e. g. starter motor, ignition, fuel supply, etc.);[it disables only one circuit]

2. interference by code of at least one control unit required for the operation of the vehicle; [there's no code interference of the alarm system, the pseudo-immob in our case, with any other control unit which are non existing anyway; in the post 95 models the interference is between the immob ecu, a.k.a the "spider", or the ECM ecu and the DDS on the inj pump].

QED so I say again, pre '96 Discoverys don't have an immobilizer

[teabag]

If you look in a 1996 Land Rover Workshop Manual it states the following for a single button alarm system.

"It is only possible to crank the engine when ignition is

ON and alarm disabled".

Therefore the engine is immobilised when the alarm system is set and remobilised when the alarm is unset.

[MITCHF]

I bet you wish you'd never asked

For what it's worth, I have a 95 300, with 2 Fobs & immobilizer etc etc.

A relevant Workshop manual is great investment if you have a Disco

Good Luck

[The Homba]

after spending 4 hours in the snow rewireing my brothers 94 300tdi i would say that it has an imobiliser which kicks in fi you use the one button fob.

as we couldnt get the engine to start with just unlocking the doors after searching on here and google i found that if you lock the disco by the key it will set the alarm but not imobilize , so you can still start the engine and drive but alarm will sound . but if locked by fob it imobilizes and sets the alarm as when you open it just by the key it wont start .

cheers Iain

[cipx2]

You people make a confusion of terms. Replace the words "immobilizer"/"immobiliser" as a system with the word XYZ.

The initial question was if, besides the alarm, the said Disco has an XYZ.

Then what everybody else replied was that it does, because you cannot start/crank the engine with the alarmed armed so the engine is 'immobilized', 'therefore it has an XYZ, which is not true.

The alarm indeed disables the starter circuit but this doesn't make the alarm system an XYZ system and you can't call it like that (I explained why). For example if you insert another switch, say hidden somewhere, that disrupts the starter circuit you can't name that an XYZ as it doesn't fit the definition of the XYZ.

The XYZ is a separate system on late Discos working in parallel with the alarm system also disabling some electrical circuits.

The components of the XYZ system are the ones I mentioned before (the spider etc). These components of the XYZ system are missing from the early Discos, therefor the entire system is missing and this is what I said.

Finally, I think the thread initiator understood from all this what his Disco does have or doesn't have, no matter how it's called.

Therefore, I'm out of this thread.